Most folks on here have never met Guy..............:munchin

A quaker would lay down the weapon, let you shoot the child and call it God's Will.

Assumption vs. Fact
 

Reminds me of some people's extremely annoying attitude à la "I could never kill someone!"

Quite a few folks are stating that as if it were a fact. It is however a statement that is unproven and should therefore be categorised under assumption/hope/wishful thinking.
A lot of these people will also remind everyone of the "fact", that unlike them, the majority of military personnel are "killing machines".


Judging one's decision making and actions in a scenario, that the self-proclaimed jugde has never encountered, is more than just a bit....well....nuts.


Once faced with previously unknown circumstances- they will of course "commit the act" and kill. But why not consider yourself morally superior while you can?

Pretty broad brush there. The Amish will watch their property stolen, barns burned, and daughters raped at their feet without raising a finger. They certainly wouldn't harm anyone in self-defense. Their philosophy is inexplicable to me but they are certainly among the most principled people I've ever met.

Would be interesting to know whether the Amish can be found in crime statistics.
If they aren't mentioned anywhere- I'd be stunned.

Regardless of their belief, we're talking about human beings. A certain belief might be able to define a person, I would however doubt that it could erode one's survival instinct.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but there are countless examples of Amish and Mennonites refusing to defend themselves and dying in the defense of their principles.

The Amish are a magnet for the brand of dirtbag that preys on the defenseless. They rarely appear in crime statistics because they don't report the crimes. They consider the court system to be "polluting" and a nexus of state violence. It was considered a breakthrough in Wisconsin when one John Vieth was convicted, with the grudging cooperation of the local Amish, for the kidnapping and rape of a 15 yo Amish girl. The trial brought to light numerous unreported assaults, buggy burnings, drive-by shootings, etc etc.

Sorry for the hijack, gents.

There are some Amish in this area, some are builders. My late father was not a fan. His take was that if they won't pick up a rifle and defend the country, or at least register for the draft, they shouldn't be able to compete against guys who did.

The area Amish won't register for the draft, won't serve jury duty. They poach unceasingly, to the point where there have been some rather tense stand-offs with neighbors.

It's easy for the Amish to be "principled" when they have better men protecting them, and running the society that allows their freedom.

Is it intellectually sustainable to challenge a constellation of assumptions and labeling them as "wishful thinking" and "nuts" based upon another constellation of assumptions about human nature and survival instinct?

I understand your position. It's a fairly common one around the farmstead. I've found them to be ruthless bargainers, brilliant tinkerers, and good neighbors to have around in a pinch. The local Sheriff wishes they'd allow him to protect them; they refuse to summon help or report victimization.

I agree with you that they aren't fully engaged citizens. But they're good stewards of the land, work their asses off, pay their taxes on time, and consume virtually no county services. I'd exchange a thousand of the voucher-carrying public housing crew and gangbanger-wannabes for more Amish, that's for sure.

Depends on whether one considers the influence of circumstances and instincts on human behaviour/ their significance to be a fact, or views it as an assumption that they dictate how one behaves in a live-or-die situation.

I was solely referring to "take a life or lose yours" scenarios. I thought the quote from the post I replied to would imply that. My apologies if that wasn't the case.

I am enjoying everyone's take on the Amish in their respective area's. I live amongst the largest population of Amish West of the Mississippi River, and for the most part I agree with your assessment of them except for the being good stewards of the land. Their farming methods dictate that they till the ground to dust much like all farmers did 40-50 years ago, their farms are also without a doubt the trashiest junk ridden farms in the area but they are without a doubt hard working individuals and a lot hardier than I will ever be.

LOL!
 

Only liberals/democrats (Congressional Black Caucus, NAACP and/or et al) would refer to me a sociopath or killer....:p

I have a patch that said: DO NO HARM; DO KNOW HARM :cool:

BTW....my family are going out to lunch and they say...

Guy, make sure you lock the doors...

Me: Break up in here if you want; the wife will be buying new carpet.:eek:

Stay safe.

;)

And you can also tell them your SF friends are only a phone call away.....;)