I am glad this topic got a bump, I may not try Sous-Vide cooking but am going to clarify some butter and grill some steaks. Can anyone tell me if the butter can be reused?

Thanks for taking the time to post that report on the method you used, but as TS indicated your process is a bit off.

To correct that and approach the method properly buy or look on line for Thomas Keller's book "Under Pressure", Amazon has the book used for $12.00 dollars.

Pay particular attention to his time and temperatures, cataloged in the glossary as they relate to different products. His temperatures are spot on, but require the exact same equipment to execute properly. That said, I have two of the Sous Vide units you have (reconditioned 1/2 price from the company), they work perfectly, but only if I am diligently prepping the items to be Sous Vide correctly. We do NY Strips at either 130^F for 30 Minutes = Rare, or 140^F for 40 Minutes = Medium. We then quickly sear all edges on the plaque, then rest on a screen, prior to being served.

imho, it's the only way to cook meat. Especially, if you want a perfect edge to edge sear. When we grill any meat over an open wood and charcoal grill, it is first Sous Vide. The result of the slow controlled temperature cooking process, then grilling, renders mind boggling extraordinary results.

Thanks Penn. I'll have to add that one to the library. I want to try some of the recipes out of Modernist Cuisine but haven't gotten there yet. I've only read the first 2-1/2 volumes so far.

For the first time I was using the guide that came with the machine. It said 1 hour and hold in the machine for up to 3 more. My guests were late arriving which is where the extra time came from. I'll definitely adjust my times down as I get more comfortable with it.

How do you deal with wet food like a marinated steak? The little vacuum sealer I have tries to suck all the liquid out and ends up getting a crappy seal. Do you use a chamber sealer or just stick with ziplocks and not worry about the vacuum part?

When we have marinated, which is very rare for us to do, we use zip lock bags.

On the most expensive book set you'll ever buy, a $625.00 investment, I'm not terribly impressed, mainly, its more of a primer for the non-professional. This will become apparent as you delve further into the world of Sous Vide cooking and discover that it is just another culinary technique to use at your discretion.

Thanks, I've been going back and forth on getting a chamber sealer. I'll stick with ziploc for now.

I agree with your assessment of the book/volumes. I have picked up a few things from it that have helped out with refining my technique. Probably the most valuable so far was the way intrinsic water can be manipulated to affect the results. Interestingly, even during my brief tenure at culinary school, that was never really discussed. The focus there was on how heat affects the product's protiens or fibers. Yes, using liquid nitrogen or an autoclave is interesting, but I don't see me ever stocking it in my house. I play with a lot of the molecular stuff so I have all kinds of esoteric books that cover the topic. Everything from Molecular Cuisine(Herve This) to Texture (Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/recipe-collection/ ) I don't consider the big expense to be a waste, just low ROI.

You might want to use a food saver as your vacuum sealer, a whole lot cheaper than a $600-3000 vacuum sealer.

And as Penn said Thomas Keller's book "Under Pressure", well worth the money if your doing sous vide. And if you're not a chef or have not taken a food safety class or food safety manager ensure you read Chef Keller's safety tips concerning sous vide.

Thanks! I'm very interested in these types of techniques and appreciate you and Penn spending the time to give feedback.

The Food Saver is the one that I have that vacuums the liquid up and doesn't seal right with wetter foods. The other option I have is to get the accessory kit, but the bags that have a built-in valve are pretty pricy. If I bought the chamber sealer I'm looking at, I'd save the cost of the sealer in less than a year.

I've ordered Under Pressure already, it'll be here on Saturday. I'm looking forward to it.

I've got my Food Manager certification from ServSafe and regularly read all food safety material in all the books, especially when looking at a new technique. I dropped out of culinary school over their food safety practices in the classroom. I definitely take that part seriously.

Then you're cleared hot to sous vide!!! (I'm also a Food Safety Manager certified)


Time to use your benefits and try another culinary school! My school was the opposite, cleaner than clean and there they would cite you for bad food safety practices.

Sous Vide Ovens Hot SALE 40% off
 

I have two of these ovens and have just purchased another. I can Fwd the email to you if interested, as its not posted on their site, or as a certified knuckle dagger failed to orient myself properly to locate the ad.

$429 reduces to $249 If you like color they are priced at $199 Argue for free shipping

REFURBISHED WATER OVEN SALE
Save 40%!
Order now while limited quantities last!
We have a very limited number of refurbished water ovens available as a special deal exclusively for our valued email subscribers.

Broke down and bought the chamber sealer (Vacmaster VP112). I have to say it's totally different than just using ziplocs. For one thing you can shape the food, which really helps with presentation. For another, even with sealing meats in the food saver, the blood would get into the seal about half the time. I'm not a fan of the "freeze and seal" method since the texture gets screwed up by the ice crystals forming and then thawing. I'll definitely get enough use out of the sealer over the next year to justify the cost.

The one down side is that the thing is huge. Weighing in at 90 pounds and the size of two burners on the stove, but longer than the 30" countertop, I won't be moving it around that much.

1VB, can you please post a picture of your vacuum sealer. I like to see difference, if there is one, to the unit I have.

Same one they have on the sous vide supreme site. Cheaper through Amazon though... and GBF gets their donation.

I have that exact machine, if anyone wants it, send me a check for $200 + shipping and its yours.

Oh, now you tell me :p

Seriously though, do you just not use it or is there something you don't like about it?

Thanks for the heads-up, D. I just ordered one. ;)

Pat

You are going to hate this. My experience is zip locks work the best for me, the vacuum does exactly what it is designed for, but requires time, which is limited in this kitchen.

Also, we have discover that if we roll the zip locks and extract 95% of the air, there is no difference in the result, or its so marginal there's no impact on quality. Mind you, I only use my Sous Vide for meat and fish. Unlike you, I have never frozen water in a bag, when I can retrieve ice from the freezer in cute little trays. :D

And yes $200. + shipping owns it. I think the savings is $6-800. dollars iirc

Actually, it's being able to use ZipLocs that sealed the deal, so to speak. The wife would have balked at getting a vacuum sealer, too. :D

Pat

PSM, so you ordered a Sous Vide oven? Never mind, I reread your post. Have fun with it, you'll be amazed by the results and texture of meats when cooked this way. Especially, if you are a rare to medium rare guy.

Yes, sir!

Pat

Aha... that's where we differ. You can't compress fruit or de-gas liquids in a zip lock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQwphCnFdak Also, as a single guy, it's nearly impossible to buy anything in small enough portions... Take celery as an example. I use like two stalks in a pot of stock. What happens to the rest? It sits in the fridge until it goes bad and then gets tossed out, usually long before the next pot of stock is made. Vacuum sealing the celery lets me keep it pretty much forever, or at least long enough that I actually use it all. Price of celery: 1.25ish Price of a bag for the sealer <.01 That's at least 1.24 in savings and usually more like 2.48. Add that up over all the things that go bad in my fridge each year and it probably will end up saving me $1000+ this year.

BTW, I didn't freeze the water, I just wanted to make sure I didn't end up with an unsealed bag of liquid like with the food saver. I did however freeze a couple of bags of beef stock for later use... but then I'm sure you have those in the cute little trays too, right next to the pesto. BTW, I don't have trays, I have this new invention called an ice maker :D

This is a good deal if anyone is looking... It was about $630 for mine

I started this thread, so I figured it was time to jump in and do it. Thank you for the info on the refurbished cookers, Chef. (Good timing, too. My wife wants to spend +/- $5,000 on a new range. She couldn't refuse me. :lifter) ;)

Pat

PSM, How big a range do you need? If you forward the exact information and requirements for your particular set up, off grid I believe, I would like to research that for you.

My purpose in doing so is to gain knowledge and expand my design consultancy. If I've understood your explanation of how your system works, and what special needs, limits, apply to solar, I will be better suited for the future, although my instinct is commercial cooking equipment future is inductive, as it only use energy when in use, unlike gas or propane.

PSM- Look to see if any JuCo's or cooking schools or local health agencies have HACCP classes. (Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points)

PM sent!

Pat

I've got my CIA NPC 6th Edition handy. I'll revisit the Food and Kitchen Safety chapter. ;)

Thanks!

Pat

I gave this a try last night. I used a digital thermometer, pot, and zip locks on the stove top. I set the water temp to 140. It maintained well and was easily regulated, electric stove. 2 hour cook time, then Pan seared with olive oil. Seasoning was sea salt and pepper. The steaks were cooked uniformly throughout and very tender. I cant say that this method beats the taste of a steak cooked over charcoal, but I do think that this was the best "indoor" steak I have had. I also cooked asparagus, as a side, in the water bath and it was great.

I'm sure it came out fine, but that is a very unsafe way to do sous vide. If you are going to do it stove top, you should use a thermal circulator. http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...mal+circulator

The problem with the way you did it is that the heat is coming from the bottom. The deeper in the water you temp, the hotter the water is. It will cook unevenly and you can end up with pockets in the meat that never reached a safe temperature, especially if you are going for the "just cooked" temps that are the purpose behind this technique. Chicken or pork cooked the way you did is a real risk for food borne illness. A circulator moves the water so it stays roughly even throughout and solves this problem. The sous vide supreme that you see us talking about does the same thing through a deliberate design to promote convection in the water. You don't get the same results from a round pot.

Also, the precision of the thermometer you used is plus or minus 3 (2.6) degrees. The thermometers used in sous vide are lab grade thermometers with a variance of no more than one degree. As you go for less cooked/rarer meat, it's easy to slip into that unsafe territory because of the thermometer variance.

I applaud your attempt and certainly would encourage you to try sous vide, but just wanted to make sure you are staying safe when you do. I'd hate for anyone to get sick because we hadn't pointed out the food safety aspects. (TS did point that out when I was talking with him earlier in the thread). Penn (I assume), TS and I all have food safety certifications and have solid knowledge of/professional instruction in the differences in cook times and bacterial degradation at various temperatures. It's worth reading up on if you are going to keep doing sous vide, if for no other reason than the effects of even minor food borne illnesses are unpleasant to say the least.

+1 with 1VB, you got a free ride this time, chance favors your technique to increase the risk of E-Coli and Salmonella typhi greatly. Especially, if you sear after the fact.

Buy the equipment. There is a sale right now, the info is in this thread. You can get a model for $199 in red or black.

Thank you both for the warning. Is there a safe way to try this method without purchasing any equipment?
I was worried about food borne pathogens but I tried to minimize the risks.
Some of the things that I did to help minimize the risks were.
1, Smallest pot possible
2: least amount of water as possible to minimize heat striation
3: Thin steaks for extended time, (not sure about this one, trying to thoroughly heat )
4: Due to work, my Thermometers are Scientific and NIST traceable.
5: Steaks were individually bagged, and stacked atop of each other. Clean wash cloths were used between each bag to promote heat transfer to the water. One cloth was placed on the bottom of the pot so that the bottom bag would not contact any direct heat.

I just wanted to try the method and did not want to invest in a dedicated cooker to do this.

The Beer cooler method scares the hell out of me.

The short answer is no. There are some hacks out there using a crock pot and a circulator but the current sale on the sous vide supreme puts it in the same price range as the circulators so it works out the same or cheaper to buy the real equipment if you get them on sale. Here's how it's done for those that are curious: http://www.howtogeek.com/93983/hack-...s-vide-cooker/

Take a look at your thermometer. You see the dimple on the post? The actual temperature is taken about 2/3 of the way down from that dimple toward the point. See the picture below for reference. The dimple is meant to be the minimum depth that you sink the thermometer into whatever you're measuring. When you temp the water with a thermometer like that unless it is a true scientific thermometer that supports multi-layered readings, you are only taking the temp at one level, not an overall average.

Also, when you cook sous vide, you want space between the bags so that water can move between them. That keeps the temperature even throughout. Your washcloths would cause it not to move and so would be cooler at the center. They defeat the purpose of sous vide. In the supreme, there is a rack that ensures that there is space between the bags. You'd be better off just letting the bags float freely.

What you are describing isn't sous vide, it's a lower temperature version of the old boil in a bag meals. There's a world of difference. The point in sous vide is to cook low and slow with all indirect heat at precise temperatures to get perfect results every time. 99% of the time when you cook meat sous vide, you are cooking it in the high 120s or low 130s (for beef) in the low to mid 140's (pork) and high 140s to low 150's(for chicken) and 115 for fish. To put that in perspective, the FDA numbers are: 145 for beef, pork and fish and 165 for poultry.(http://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/mintemp.html) When you are cooking sous vide, you are going a great deal lower, but for a longer time than the recomendations are based on. You better know what you're doing when you make a conscious decision to go under the "safe temperatures" For example, the tenderloin in the second picture was done at 132 for 40 minutes for a whole tenderloin cut into thirds (about 5 pounds total).

When you're doing sous vide, you're flirting with the safe zone. A couple degrees off or 5 minutes too short and you'll be spending the evening in either the bathroom or the emergency room. Do you really want to take chances with it?

edit - for TS and Penn, yes, I know the minimum temps that are used commercially are different than the ones cited. I'd rather post the official government "home use" numbers for something like this.

FWIW, I started out with a crock pot hack myself about 1 1/2 years ago. There's a huge difference when you get the right equipment. I learned the importance of the food safety part of it the hard way, really quickly.

Thank you.

Got my SV Supreme yesterday and made boneless chicken thighs last night. Nothing fancy, just salt, pepper, garlic, and butter. When it was done, I tossed them on the grill for about a minute a side while my wife reduced the juices with some tyme. Tasty. The biggest change seems to be the prep.

Ribeye tonight! ;)

Pat

FAIL! Sorta. I SVed them at 133° for med-rare knowing that I'd sear them after. After searing on the grill they came out medium which is fine with my wife but not for me. The searing went about 3 minutes because I was going for a photo-op cross hatch on the top. Maybe searing first is better? :confused:

Pat

It's not a true fail if you still ate them.

Here is the method we use.

Grill white coal hot with some flame and the grills are within 2" of the coals.

1.Oil and season the meat.

2. Place the meat on the grills very close but not touching. This concentrates the heat and flame as the fat melts onto the coals.

3.Turn the meat every minute or so, on all side, that means the edges are sear too. we are not interested in "cooking the meat", we are interested in getting it seared, marked, transferring and infusing the meat with the wood and charcoal flavor.

4. When that is completed, we immediately put the meat in the appropriate size zip lock bag, and drop them into an "Ice bath", to stop the cooking process.

Our goal is an edge to edge sear, not a cooked state, R, MR, MED, or WD. Once cooled 10 minutes or so, we drop them into the Sous Vide @ 139.5^F for 40 Minutes. The results is perfectly executed grilled Filet's, NY Sirloins, or Rib eyes, that will recalibrate your understanding of what a great steak taste and texture should be.

139? How thick are the steaks you're cooking? That seems really high to me.

Filet are usually cut to 2" - 2 1/2", NY Strips are cut 1 1/14" minimum, and the same for Rib Eyes.

Technique
 

This is the searing process we use to prep the meat prior to place the portions in the Sous Vide.

Top L>R
S1. The meat has been placed on the plaque.
S2> S3 is the searing process, you can see the effect of the edge to edge in the third slide, top row, third cut.
S4 examples the same.
S5 clearly demonstrates the technique and S6, the finish searing process.

Edge to edge _ Medium
 

My apology for the very poor image, I'll upload a better shot tomorrow, but this image shows a finished edge to edge sear of a steak cooked to medium. The sear is paper thin, and that is what we shoot for.

Lamb rack are processes the exact same way.

The Sous Vide sale afforded me the opportunity to execute Fish, Meats, and Vegetables simultaneously. The exactness or correctness of cooking to order at the prefect temperatures is off the charts.