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Ahh, yes Camp MacKall in the summer - got gigged for falling asleep in a class, one of the ones with the door closed in August in a Quonset, at perfect parade rest... wasn't that supposed to keep me awake. SFC K gigged me 5 but gave me 10, because I didn't fall over or snore. Later that day, got in to a rather heated discussion with MSG S (instructor, a bounced Czech) that left most of the class in a state of confusion... MacKall, where else could you get abused by Maj Howard, LTC Rowe, LTC Gritz and still never quit. I can't remember the name of the river where we did expedient rafts and bridges - the one that never got over 40 degrees - I think my brain froze....
I think I figured out another thing that sets SF soldiers apart - we try to prove things to ourselves, so that we have no need to prove them to others. |
All this talk about McCall got me to reminiscing. I was in the 12B Class of 66-4 "The Best of the Worst." I wonder if the plaque is still nailed up in the tree next to our hooches?
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Drowning Creek was where the slide for life was. Small boat ops was in Big Muddy Lake. Pete |
You guys were just 'checking for holes in your eyelids.' One has to do that now and then. ;)
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That's it ! Drowning Creek - named because it was so cold that there were several physiological and anatomical changes immediately present once you entered the H20. And Mott Lake was another place that brings back nightmares....
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My 2c worth......
I am not of the mind to think that the ability to go where others fear to tread is due to neurological differences. I think that in this day and age we, as a species, are trying to be more aware of our own true natures. People are way too sensitive in their disection of what makes others tick. My own experiences saw me step aside from what most would call an 'ordinary life' following a path that few dare to tread. Was this because I have an additional gene that made me seek out this working arena? Not in the slightest. I grew up in orphanages around thew south coast of England. I faced the ultimatum of "get a job or get out" at age 16. I done what most other kids my age were doing, I joined the military. The fact that I had already experienced 16 years of dicipline stood me in stead for fast promotion through the lower NCO ranks. I went places, physically and mentally, which were easily returned from by using my own mental classification system. Realizing what needs to be done at a certain time in order to achieve the right outcome and then having the maturity and mental stability to realize that OK, I'm now back in the 'real world'. Click, readjust.
Some unfortunate souls couldn't make the transition. We'd been through the same training, fought alongside each other but at the end of the day I tend to think its more about ones strength of psyche and mental stability and being able to switch between differing mentality "modes". My 2c worth. 13eme |
Environment.
"Although the work has been going on for several years, the researchers are still uncertain whether the Green Berets' enhanced capacity to endure trauma was genetic or had been acquired through Special Forces training."
SF soldiers are on average more physically fit than the average. Which in itself may lead to this phenomena being above average. Comparing soldiers who have been conditioned to extreme physical and mental stress in training, to soldiers who have not had nearly as much experience is not very useful in my opinion. I believe that responses to stress can be controlled and learned, within reason. It would be interesting to see how SF qualified soldiers fair against other groups that volunteer and train for working in hazardous conditions, maybe firefighters or something to that effect. Maybe use 18X'ers or soldiers slated to attend SFAS and see if there is a correlation in the levels of these chemicals before and after SFAS and subsequent training. I know that 18 series soldiers are elite and deserve all the respect in the world. If you chalk it up to genetic superiority it takes alot away from those guys who have to work twice as hard to wear the beret. The science involved in the article does not prove or disprove whether it is an environmental or genetic trait though. I think it is most likely a product of the environment 18 series soldiers subject themselves to, especially considering how the approach used in the study. I will shut up now and return to trawling for information. |
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They are as fit as most SF personnel. They did not display the same levels of neuropeptide Y. TR |
About 4 years ago in SOFMSSP there was this Maj [back then] that headed this study. He spoke to our class of his findings. Needless to say its pretty f-ckin cool whether you believe heredity or environment.
One thing I learned and still remember from the 18D course; the body has an unbelievable capacity to adapt to its environment. You walk a lot you get caluses, your in the sun a lot the skin learns to protect itself, there are people you can eat poisonous foods or that whack job in the SW that has envenomed himself with enough rattlesnake venom that it doesn't bother him anymore. Therefore I feel the tough, dangerous training and experiences cause the body to produce this chemical in greater amounts over time. They should draw the blood of SF wannabes before they start and check the levels of the ones who made it again a couple years later for a more conclusive study. I feel backgrounds have a part in it too. Most guys I know either; have no siblings, 1st born or are the shining star of a severely dysfunctional family. In the end I think we have been doing something right all along through out history. Tough realistic training. SF happens to get most of the best and brightest to volunteer. I believe age, tough experiences, and the background the individual comes from make up most the SFers. dave Oh, I got a similar question; which came 1st the chicken or the egg? |
"The study compared SF Soldiers against other soldiers in SERE, including Rangers, aviators, etc."
I didn't read that part in the article and I don't know where this information is coming from. Not to mention the article itself was pretty vague but really interesting. However, assuming that statement is correct and that is the "control group", the results would definitely indicate that training is the source of the neurological response. If this was an inherited trait or a genetic difference the idea that all of the people who exhibit it would find their way to the SF's instead of the Ranger regiment or an aviator slot is highly unlikely, actually more like preposterous. Although I am not about to attempt to compare these jobs last time I checked Rangers and Pilots on average are pretty high speed. The likelyhood of all these genetically similar people winding up among any one particular group is very unlikely. I agree with you 18Dave. They should have a better experiment. Also they should look at other factors like you mentioned age, experience, etc... The egg came first. Ever noticed how much the egg looks like a cell. :rolleyes: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question85.htm Chickens evolved from non-chickens through small changes caused by the mixing of male and female DNA or by mutations to the DNA that produced the zygote. These changes and mutations only have an effect at the point where a new zygote is created. That is, two non-chickens mated and the DNA in their new zygote contained the mutation(s) that produced the first true chicken. That one zygote cell divided to produce the first true chicken. Prior to that first true chicken zygote, there were only non-chickens. The zygote cell is the only place where DNA mutations could produce a new animal, and the zygote cell is housed in the chicken's egg. So, the egg must have come first. |
neuropeptide y and diet
One interesting thing I found:
"Studies of mice and monkeys show that repeated stress — and a high-fat, high-sugar diet — stimulate the release of neuropeptide Y, causing fat to build up in the abdomen. Researchers believe that by manipulating levels of the appetite hormone, they could make fat melt from areas where it was not desired and accumulate at sites where it is needed.[18][19]" ^ Thomas H. Maugh II (July 2, 2007). "Research points to way to eliminate belly fat". Chicago Tribune. ^ Kuo LE, Kitlinska JB, Tilan JU, et al. (July 2007). "Neuropeptide Y acts directly in the periphery on fat tissue and mediates stress-induced obesity and metabolic syndrome". Nat. Med. 13 (7): Does that correlate to any of your diets: High-fat, high sugar? I'm curious, are SF soldiers more likely to be overweight than non-SF soldiers, or SF include all kinds of body types? Thanks in advance for your insights. |
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And I have serious doubts. You learning to write in proper English will surprise me. Maybe you should just settle for that instead of SF training. It is good to have goals, but make them realistic. Tress |
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Speaking about "cojones",that's another reason why we are,who we are.....;) Big Teddy :munchin |
Huh....
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Stay safe. |
A warrior gene?
People who have an inborn aptitude for handling weapons and fighting? People who when put into a threatening and dangerous enviroment just seem to know how to instinctively deal with it? People who are just plain braver and bolder than some others? People who are driven to serve and protect their tribe? |
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Richard :munchin |
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Where's Dr. Phil when you need him?:rolleyes:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhJZXOWNdMM |
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Big Teddy :munchin |
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Tress |
Tress,
Right on.......................;) :D Big Teddy :munchin |
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On second thought: I just waded through all 38 of your posts. I found two of them deleted by moderators. I found this gem of a response to a QP's advice to you - Quote:
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Your lightly packed rucksack could very soon find its way to the hall. |
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This is an old thread
This is an old thread from years back and mentioned a study that had been going on for a few years.
Now - I'm not a Doc but I have put a thinking cap on a time or three. Sampling of enlistees, sampling of Airborne volunteers, sampling of SFAS vols and grads and at the very end sampling of the SFQC grads. That would answer the "Big" question. Looks as if somebody has got on the Federal Grant Gravy Train and will ride it for all they got. |
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Or perhaps crossed shovels with a miner's helmet placed in the center...kind of a take off of the combat diver badge. |
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Big Teddy :munchin |
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TR |
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Richard :munchin |
Personally I've always liked this one:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...IZN1xjs3U12XI5 Or this one: http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...a8m7UffJysb1mg |
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Abrazadereas OK. I have calmed down a bit since your last post and Robert Daly saying “Mea Culpa” has also improved my disposition. Do not take my post in any manner other than that which I intend. I am not being accusatory or mean. Everything that I write henceforth in this post (until I tell you differently) is in an even, mild mannered tone. Think of me now as a favorite uncle offering you advice that may just help you survive in this forum and maybe even in other situations in which you may find yourself in life. If you are serious about trying to follow in the footsteps of the QP’s on this forum you may want to read this carefully. When I first enlisted in the Army for Special Forces (about 10 years before you were born) there was virtually no information available with which to G-2 (learn in advance) what the course and the SF way of life was all about. The recruiter’s knew nothing about it (no matter what they said), there were no books, no television documentaries nor web sites. The information that you did get was either woefully inadequate or completely incorrect. Back then you just did what you were told as it came to you and drove on. This website is available to help you make it through the course and achieve the first of many goals that you say that you desire to achieve, but I see you pissing it away with almost every post that you write. Here you need only follow some basic rules such as good grammar, spelling, searching to see if your question has already been answered and not making dumb-ass comments about things that you presently know nothing about. To me those rules do not seem too difficult to follow when compared to the reward that you will receive for following them. Breaking these simple rules will merely get you banned from the site. On an ODA the rules are somewhat more stringent and breaking the rules could get you killed or, even worse, get someone else killed. On this web site there are many individuals that have done that which you seek to do and individuals that are still doing it, many of both types presently working in the various stages of the Qualification Course that you wish to attend. Do you really think that you will not be remembered and pointed out for your attitude, flakiness and lack of Situational Awareness? Special Forces is a very small community and news travels fast. I am not saying that you will be black-balled, but you will be given extra scrutiny and I can guarantee you that the extra scrutiny of which I speak will not be helpful to you while trying to complete the Q-Course. Simply put, ODA’s do not need the kind of individual that you are presently showing us that you are. They have neither the time nor the inclination to teach you to write, speak and act in the manner that you will need to in order to assist an ODA in its mission. In order to make it on an ODA the rest of the Detachment members need to be able to depend on you to do your job correctly and cover their collective asses while they do their job and cover your ass. Did you happen to notice that inter-dependency? Presently I do not think that there is a QP in this forum that feels as if they can depend on you to pull your head out of your ass and act normally, never mind depend on you in a firefight. If you truly wish to attempt becoming an SF soldier straighten yourself out and stop acting like a street punk. It is neither funny nor appreciated here and I can guarantee you that it will not be appreciated in the Q-Course nor on an ODA. Presently, I do not pity you at all. I envy you, but only because of your age. I just wish that I was your age again so I could do it all over again. Favorite uncle voice turned off. For your information I wake up giddy every morning whether the sun is shining or not. And believe me when I tell you this… You could not handle my giddiness! ;) And by the way, that is the last strike that I will offer you. Tress P.S. -- This has always bothered me about your screen name. I think that you spelled it incorrectly. Should it not be “Abrazaderas”. I may not have used my Spanish much in the last few years but I think you have one too many e’s in there. |
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Big Teddy :munchin |
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