I understand your point, but on the other hand the government doesn't give me any pass if I am late on anything. On the other hand if you are considered a minority or immigrant federal, state and local bureaucracies are very understanding in enforcing the rules.

You should be institutionalized for your own well being.

Any border patrol agent will tell you how complicated the law can be however I agree with your question, something is not meeting the sniffer test with this narration. Being in a work program is not the same as citizenship. I understand work permits are for temporary time frames allowing the holder to work in this country. Quotas are to control who and why someone can immigrate into this country and become an American citizen and the there are the lotteries that circumvent quotas and allow some illegal aliens residing in our country to stay and become legal citizens.

It looks to me like liberals and their agendas have reeked havoc with the system from the one I knew of and it needs to be fixed. That's why it is so important for them to continuously try and divide the people of this country in order to impede us actually sitting down and crafting fair legislation for the citizens of this country. Saying I have become skeptical of the media is an understatement...It's apparent the border patrol has been censured, they are the ones that know so much about the dynamics going on here and I would really like to hear from them...but we don't..................

How about how many fake work permits / green cards are floating around? What are the real estimates of illegal aliens in this country, notice how the liberal disinformation always gives an 11 million figure and yet we know there have been tremendous fluctuations through out the years? Border agents I spoke with at one time gave me a different impression, one of much higher numbers and that was decades ago. The liberals see this as an important issue to sway the voting electorate in this country. Can banking laws be used to fix some of these issues? IRS enforcement of fraudulent deductions and sanctions against employers who knowingly violate the laws?

I own several vehicles. I'm required to register them every year with my state DMV. I've registered vehicles I've owned and paid the associated fees and taxes for decades, in every state in which I've lived. I'd like to think I'm a decent citizen, generally do the right thing and have raised good, responsible children. Next year, if I choose not to register the car because I don't want to sit for 3+ hours at DMV waiting to submit my paperwork and pay my fees/taxes, I would be breaking the law if I continued to drive my unregistered vehicle. If a police officer sees that I don't have the current registration sticker on my plate, he may choose to pull me over to issue me a citation. If I try to evade this traffic stop, I will very likely be arrested, charged and found guilty.

This process should surprise absolutely no one with even a passing familiarity of living within the law. How is the example of the "fearful" immigrant dad any different from the laws I must follow?

Ding, ding! We have a winner! 17 consecutive years on a work visa? AMCIT children, wife, etc. with no (apparent) attempt to seek citizenship or a green card? What are we not being told?

I have some American friends that reside in Mexico (Baja Sur) they are there to live forever. They wanted a house looking out over the Pacific; the government doesn't allow foreigners to buy and own land to do that and I'm sure some of you have heard stories of those that bought a lease only to see the government come take it all back. She went through a very long, exhausting process to become a Mexican national. You have to read, write, and speak Spanish with the fluency of a native born person. The test is very difficult to pass but she did. OTOH her husband is there on a visa that must be renewed from time to time and there are no guarantees that the Mexican government will do that. As with many expats around the world living within the rules of the host country are essential and mandatory. Back to my friends, they are still constantly afraid that one day the Mexican government will show up at their beautiful stone and timber home on a cliff overlooking the ocean and tell them to leave or tell him he's not welcome. That is a real fear. Because it could happen even if they continue to follow all the rules and laws.

Why is it that people who come here to better themselves and raise a family can't follow our rules and laws, pay taxes and participate in building a better community?

If my friends screwed up one time they'd be asked to leave and leave their house behind. If they did not they'd be arrested and sent to one of those Mexican jails you've heard of. Not one citizen of Ensanada would give a rats ass nor protest the government on their behalf. I guess one reason is the government and federal police would just as likely open fire and kill you.

Ain't America great! We not only allow protests and civil disobedience we encourage and promote it. Even if the people protesting have no legal right to do so because they too should be arrested and deported because of their status.

This is a true story, the wife, is my employee. This "Story" was presented in the hope of exploring alternatives. SF is after all in the people business. finding and making work relationships for mutual benefit.

Does the Republican party currently have the power position to resolve the immigration issue, would effecting that policy insure the Spanish vote?

What other nation on this planet denies its own laws and chooses to allow millions of people (a large percentage of which are felons) to illegally invade and occupy lands, collect large amounts of benefits, and the natives assist them in that, while LE is denied the option of incarcerating and deporting them?

Most don't even want to be Americans. They just want the benefits this nation offers.

I don't think any other nation would even contemplate this insanity.

If you want to immigrate and become an American, fine, there is a legal process, follow it and I have no objections.

TR

Okay but what's his story - the father? You ever talk with him?

FWIW I'm not against anyone that wants to come to America, to work, raise a family, better themselves or family back home. I would then and would still give my life in the hopes and dreams of others to be free. That doesn't mean I want to support them forever or allow them something for free that I have to pay for.

I don't think the Republican Party has a clue and neither do the Democrats. Like you said it's complicated. There is a legal process...it takes time, money, patience and there are still no guarantees you or a loved on will be allowed to come here on permanent or non-permanent basis. Maybe if that process was easier or if people didn't abuse it it would work better for more people. My wife immigrated here from Asia it took awhile. After my son was born she decided to become an American citizen, before that event she still had no intention of staying here so non-permanent 'Green Card" was good for her. We had to renew that at least once - we did - before it expired. Her English was and is still just okay. She still translates most technical things like a driver's handbook and she now knows more about American civics 101 than a graduating senior from high school and from the looks of it most college/university students.

We all have requirements to travel abroad. Passports, visas, entry permits and so forth. All of them expire if you don't take care of that - problems arise.

Immigration is messed up not because people illegally cross the border to come here. Immigrants will do what immigrants do...lawfully or unlawfully. The problem is compassion is poor excuse for allowing lawlessness and being taken advantage of. If we reward those here illegally every twenty years with amnesty and forgiveness in twenty years the problems will be tenfold bigger and they will have created everything they left: poverty, crime, violence, government crackdowns and a broken government that can no longer provide even basic services let alone advanced ones for any price.

Beirut, Phnom Penh and countless other developing cities were jewels of their time - Destroyed by success! What ever happened to the Aztecs, the Romans, and the native populations before immigrants arrived?

To all, I present this story to open a discussion for consideration to find a solution to the problem.

There is a ton of experienced leaders here. I am not defending the decision chain, but presented a picture of one family that examples many others, and at a heavy cost to both parties, the deportee and the Nation.

The arguments presented in reply only respond to adherence to the law, as a Nation of Laws, they must be enforced. I get that and I agree.

How then to develop a list of consideration that would satisfy adherence to the law and resolve keeping good people here, and in doing so, build inroads to groups usually outside mainstream republican reach.

The friend of my BiL, and American born citizen, has a similar story except that he was a stock broker. He broke an SEC law and just got out of prison after 20 years. His children were younger.

Both knew the law.

Pat

(BO)^^^I agree that the politics of immigration is not a Republican - Democrat problem to solve or fix. The fix is already written in ink. Both parties are guilty of looking the other way. One for votes, one for money and they are complicit in both. They both talk a lot and do secret deals behind closed doors. They make promises they know they can't keep or will be reversed someday but the immediate effect was all they needed. There are heros and villains and each will find a microphone if only until the next closed door session. And then nothing will change.

As I and also Reaper said, there is no other country with a functioning government that allows the abuses that go on here in America. The Mexican government would in a matter of seconds confiscate all assets and lock away the perpetrators at best. Shoot them for resisting at worst.

There is a really really big carrot hanging over the USofA and the stick is made from jello. When mayors, city officials, state AGs and governors chose to not follow the law and their oath of office to the citizens of the country then all is lost. They need to be held accountable even if that is in contempt and arrested. They can resign as not fulfilling their oath or be prosecuted and either found guilty or acquitted but they cannot be allowed to flout the law and undermine the Constitution. Follow the money! The subversives will be voted out of office or impeached as soon as crime rates soar and streets turn into shooting galleries over turf wars and gang violence. When the innocents begin to die it changes people's behavior.

This idea that one persons 'humanity' is more important than another persons 'humanity' is a cause for humanity to fail. At some point in leadership you can't bring the whole company down to the lowest and slowest. You have to cut them lose and they will either take a different path to find success or be destroyed. Nature is better at this without human interference. The strong will have a better chance of survival and the weak feed the lowest in the food chain so eventually even the strong will have eaten their young. One way or another the strong survive.

Immigrants who come here and follow our laws and the rules, work hard and raise honest children to go on and create productive families of their own are the strong. But there is a subset of the weak that came here following that other path...a path of crime, gangs, and disruption of the natural order of things. They feed off the strong like parasites and bring everyone down to their level. This is what really needs fixing and I believe the world is overpopulated so the disappearance and extermination of certain species and subspecies of the human race would benefit the whole in a positive way. But that's just me. I don't believe so much in rehabilitation and incarceration. Some can most cannot and sustaining them forever in a state of nonconformity is a strain on already tight resources. Same goes for anyone born here or not.