Issue back open
 

http://news.yahoo.com/us-defense-chi...211906333.html

Sec Def told USMC "to re-investigate and take appropriate action against the Marine snipers who posed with a logo resembling a notorious Nazi symbol"

Head's are going to roll.

"The rapid-fire announcements came on the heels of demands from a leading Jewish organization and others for President Barack Obama to order an investigation into the incident and to hold the troops accountable"

Now I personally can see how SOME might not know what the SS stood for, but they damn sure will now. Not knowing has NEVER been an excuse.

Respectfully,
Tweeder

This is a waste of time.
 

"Not for any sinister or anti-Semitic calculation, but for the simple reason the acronym/letters SS fit nicely in identifying a Scout Sniper and generally because of a professional respect for the German military’s martial capabilities on the battlefield and not the politics of the Nazi fascist regime."

No one ever protested KIZZ. Paging Gene Simmons

Now that is an astounding lack of SA and historical perspective. :eek:

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

I disagree with this quote completely.

Even if those Marines were trying to show respect for German military prowess during that specific time period, I would assume the Germans wouldn't take it kindly if those Marines waved that symbol while stationed in Germany in the present. Respect can be shown in many other, far more appropriate ways.

Maybe they thought it stood for SUPER STAR! Sad to say. But I would guess most in the pic have no idea about WWII history

This is on par with those idiots who decided to piss on the corpses of the enemy, and to FILM IT :mad:

Poor disply of tact, professionalism, and SA in both cases.

The SS administrated the entire Nazi fascist regime.

The Waffen SS? Ever heard of a place called Malmedy?

Most of these Marines probably only have a high school education, they are not very old and also while the runes are the same as the nazi SS, the flag is similar and not the same.

Runes (s) also looks like lightning bolts. The nazi was into anything that embellished their presentation. If anything it is not the smartest thing to do. More concerning is all the spin masters playing this for all they can get out of it. Just like the Marines pissing on the dead T-ban. Gunny should have taken care of it in house. A few days sand bagging or burning S-ters.

We live in such a distant society that we have the luxury to blow small issues way out of proportion. The most effective weapon the tangos have and it comes with all sorts of unwilling and willing allies is propaganda. Let's make a mountain out of a mole hill!

The saving grace of other wars was, we did not have the internet, we did not have all the electronic toys, and communication was slow.

I am more for supporting our people than chastising them. They job is crappy as it is. So they make mistakes?

The other difference in WWII, if the editors of the NYT published stuff then as they do today, my guess would be: Americans would storm their offices, tar an feather the editors and run them out of town on a rail.

No, they did not, although they were an inherently important part of it all.

Astounding! And I disagree.

We're supposed to be a professional military force representing the ideals of what is considered to be the greatest nation on this planet and its policies - not the overly idealized, misunderstood, and patently misrepresented actions of those of previous cultures. Declaring ourselves to be 'crusaders' or 'SS' or 'rebels' or such only detracts from our assigned mission(s), wastes valuable resources and limited energies, and encourages our enemies...both domestic and foreign...while frustrating our allies and NCA. It's time we grew up; realized the importance of such juvenile actions in hindering our progress in an e-world; and make sure we, our allies, and our enemies understand we will have little tolerance for such behaviors which are not reflective of who we truly are, profess to be, and seek to become.

Perception is reality out there - and it's been that way for quite awhile. This is LIFE...not some effin' video game.

Richard :munchin

Nope. There is no "saving grace" in not having journalism. Good reporting has an important role to play in our society and it's not the fault of the reporter when idiots throw puppies off of cliffs or pose with flags that "admire the martial qualities" of the nazi's.

I'm all for chastising any idiot who by his actions shames himself and his uniform. I just think that the major portion of the blame is on the leadership who for many, many years has permitted this in the Scout Snipers.

Absolutely, big boy world, big boy rules, this is the symbol of units which perpetuated racial genocide on an industrial scale and killed millions, not to mention many an American boy, brothers in arms to these Marines. Ignorance is not an excuse, what was going through the heads of senior NCO's and officers?

These Marines are tough men, who do a tough job, yet they might consider spending a day at Auschwitz, go to the rooms next to the hallway where there are thousands of baby shoes piled to the ceiling, lamps made out of human skin, and other examples of the evils humanity is capable of.

The American flag in that picture is truly the flag of hard men, our grandfathers who beat this evil.

Source is here.

With respect, this post suggests a double standard. Civilians are often excoriated on this BB and others like it for their increasing neglect of the concept of personal responsiblity. Yet, when members of the armed services make the choice to behave in ways inconsistent with the values of the American professions of arms, there are those who say isn't such a big deal.

Nevertheless, this incident is a big deal. Not the least because it demonstrates, yet again, the persistence of enduring myths in America about Nazism despite the diligent efforts of German historians to understand their own past.

Moreover, the following statement is a questionable (i.e. ahistorical) speculation.As D.M. Giangreco points out in his study of Operation DOWNFALL, numerous broadsheets published articles, editorials, and letters to the editor that raised questions about the armed forces notwithstanding the efforts of the federal government and the armed services to frame public perception of the war.

For better and for worse, the journalism played a significant role in shaping the perception of hard line militarists in Japan of America's will to fight, and the viability of continued armed resistance.*


__________________________________________________ __
* D. M. Giangreco, Hell to Pay: Operation DOWNFALL and the Invasion of Japan, 1945-1947 (Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 2009).

I believe I have an idea of what a symbol is.

The "Lone Star" flag is a probable statement of pride in the culture now existing in Texas, to one person. Perhaps to another it is a "symbol" of killing indians, to another, it is a "symbol" of stealing Mexican land. Deciding what a symbol means to the person displaying it is an interesting evaluation of our own "baggage".

I have a baseball cap, sorta "Bad-a$$ed Vietnam Vet" type thing, and on it, you'd see a skull and crossbones. That does not mean that I am a pirate, nor that I am a member of the old SS Death's Head division, nor that I admire them.

A symbol means what the folks who display it feel that it means.

I understand the SA part of it. That makes it a bad call if it creates more hardship and death. Hearts and minds, got it, BTDT.

But some of us here seem close to declaring that the Marines displaying the SS symbol are praising the holocast when it's also possible they are saying "so bad-a$$ed you oughta shake in your boots when you see us".

Heck, for four years I wore an academy crest with an ancient Trojan helmet as the centerpiece of the field and I don't even LIKE condoms.