It already is "banned" on paper.

I think that most of the "homosexuals" going to combat units will exercise a lot more common sense than people give them credit for. Nobody likes being rolled up in a sleeping back and thrown off the third floor (Fort Campbell, don't remember the date.)

Fear and a desire to prove that they can operate will probably net us a lot of highspeed soldiers, early on at least. Combat units will adapt to this. I'd be more worried about general soldier standards like "passing a PT test" or "not having diabetes as a 19 year old" rather that who Cpl. Corn has sex with.

It's a huge can of worms, but we don't have 20 divisions anymore, and lets be honest, I can't speak for SF, but most of us have already served in units with gays.

The above population is not the one that has the agenda. Those who were "quietly breaking the rules in order to serve" and meeting / exceeding the standard are not the ones that will seek to be accommodated / protected / or otherwise recognized for their sexual orientation. They will, IMHO, breath a quiet sigh of relief that they no longer have to worry about getting "caught" or "outed" by someone outside their common circle who may care that they were not in compliance with policy / reg / etc.

No doubt there will be issues, too, if there are a couple of "hot chicks" that all the straight guys want to watch "make out" getting away with it, while the dudes get their asses beat or counseled for their "public displays of affection"...:rolleyes:

You have got to be shitting me.

What do you know about high-speed soldiers?

Do you think there is some gay version of SF out there, and all their members needed was permission from Congress to join?

TR

No, not at all. High-speed in the context of my unit is: I do very well on my PT test, I accomplish tasks quickly and above the basic standard, my uniform is clean and serviceable, I have internalized and live the Army Values. Most soldiers in my BDE do not fit that bill. I'm 100% sure at least some of the soldiers that come in will.

At USMA the highspeed standard was maxing the pt test, excelling in summer assignments, strac uniform, internalizing/living the Honor Code, and a high GPA. Do I know two gay guys that met that standard, and continue to exceed the army status quo? Yes.

We're going to get more slobs, more EO trolls, and people who want to join to 'make a statement,' but we're going to get good troops as well. Like I said, I can't speak for SF, but in regular army land there is a dearth of good troops.

AF Security Forces... (Couldn't stop myself)

I am against the clusterfuck this whole situation has become, I am against doing this right now, I am against giving two shits what armchair commandos thinks, but I DO think gays should be allowed to serve openly, because ideally (which I realize is not reality) any of the foreseen issues would be controlled by standards already in place. Speaking of standards, and the master plan that will never come true, I think their needs to be one standard across the board for our military. One PT test, One uniform, One set of regulations that applies to every man, woman, tranny, hetero, homo, and whatever else that signs up.

Sexual Harassment is already illegal, gay or straight.

Unprofessional conduct gets dealt with by smoke sessions, paperwork, and discharges.

Being a flaming cry-baby victim is another problem soldier that may come up, but they should be dealt with like every needle user, fat ass, or general dirtbag should be getting dealt with.

I agree with both statements. I think the most dangerous side affect would be the veteran soldiers that leave because of the soldiers that joined to push the homosexual agenda.

In 500 years, the elite soldier will be a new version of the old Greek Army Boys Club.

Back in the 70's/80's, the straight guy was the one who looked like he worked out.

Today, the metro-sexual gay man looks like he just left the gym. The straight guy, has three kids at McDonald's with happy meals, un-kept flannel shirt, kind of out of shape, knows how to grill baby back ribs and has a hot wife, because, well, she was left with the left overs, since all the good looking guys were, well, gay.

Since due to genetics, we will never get the average woman's physical strength up to the average man's, I guess we should let men's standards drop to the women's PT standards. Is that what you are advocating?

Which set of standards will apply to that transgender troop you have? Will the Army have to pay for sex changes now?

What will happen when we send gay troops to countries where that act carries the death penalty? Just in case we ever have to go to the Middle East? We made women follow cultural norms, as best they could. Will we allow the locals to stone gay service members to death, as their laws require?

Not when you are a protected species. Now they are.

A significant number of "gays" being put out of the military, was due to the fact that the easiest way to get out of military service, especially as a new recruit, was to claim you were gay. It wasn't even a punitive discharge. A large number of the recruits leaving service just opted to go that route, rather than to take a punitive discharge or to get booted. They were not gay, they just claimed to be so to get the easy way out. This led gay activists to claim that large numbers of gays were being forced out of the military, when that was not actually the case.

I think that if you are not inclined to support this new direction, it would be an excellent time to retire.

TR

Who would share a cup with a patient in the hospital infected with pneumocystis carinii?

How much different would sharing a cup be..., from sharing a MK-1 MOD 0 bandmask with someone who was recently infected with HIV and didn't know it?
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/news/2...half-dont-know

Considering the high prevalence of HIV among gay and bisexual men, and how easily HIV transmission has been shown to occur on say, dental instruments - would always be in the back of my mind, especially if I had to don the same hardhat worn previously by a gay man.

http://blogs.hcpro.com/osha/2010/07/...paign=20100707

http://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/prevgui...7/m0001877.asp

Immediately after an exposure to HIV, there aren't any specific symptoms for the first several weeks. After two to four weeks following an exposure, flu-like symptoms such as fever, muscle aches, diarrhea, fatigue or rash may occur. During this period you are highly contagious and can easily spread the virus to others.
One and Five gay/bi men carry HIV and don't even know it:
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/news/2...half-dont-know

Nose-clearing devices on various diving rigs become quite grungy towards the end of the day following sustained diving operations..., is it worth the risk?
http://aquaviews.net/scuba-diving-nosebleeds/

Social Engineering
 

Big Brother always thinks they know what is best for us mere mortals.
Let the fun begin I have seen it all in the microcosm of the FD first Women lowering physical standards then the academic standard of the written test was lowered.
From Fireman on the ID to Fire Fighter on the ID.
Now they have sensitivity training for everyone. No berating a member after the fire because it would hurt the feelings of the member because they could not make the fire floor, take the door or make the roof.
Good Luck especially to the Officers who have to deal with all the headaches.
Not to even think of Blood-borne pathogens to think of.
Good Luck 2012 can not come fast enough.

Sir, with all due respect (and I truly mean that) referring to another human being who willing chooses to serve as a "species"; is extreme.

Far too many other "Americans" view the military and national service as either a joke or an endeavor for the ignorant. Liking gays or lesbians is not a requirement. However, anyone who willing raises his or her right hand and repeats an oath at least deserves a mediocrum of respect.


T.

P.S. Don't suppose anyone has a dozen SAPI plates I can borrow...

And if they serve as agents provocateurs?

Pat

Actually I think the junior NCOs will have it the worst. Officers will not have the most interaction with the majority of the new additions. That NCO that hates homosexuality will have to be extra careful because he/she'll be the one that gets crushed by the EO complaint.

What's happening in 2012? Is America going to "toughen up" because it has a new president? I doubt that.

What you mean like zeee Germans?!


T

Negative, I am advocating one PT standard that will ensure anyone can perform the basic combat soldiering skills that will be required of them. If I could choose from what is available today, it would be the AFSOC PT minus the swim or the Male USMC PT standards and a 12 mile ruck.

Yes, some will scream discrimination, but it is entirely equal treatment. An easier PT test for women as it stands today is special treatment.

(My fantasy land comes with the end of the kindler gentler military)

There is only one standard in this fantasy world, if you mean dress and appearance that would be between the troop and their supervisor. The military would not pay for sex changes, just as they do not pay for cosmetic (aside from a few ridiculous exceptions) surgeries today. I asked the AF to remove a mole on my neck and they told me no unless a doctor says it needs to come off for medical reasons/testing. Same thing here.

What will happen is that being gay is not illegal in OUR country, will not be illegal for OUR soldiers, and OUR soldiers will follow OUR laws. Sorry sir, I think this one is a little out there. I can see why certain communities like yours would have a larger issue with this than the big military, but (my outside, unqualified opinion) I don't see an actual issue.

Also not something I am advocating, I am advocating one truly equal standard. No special treatment.