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- Ammo Talk (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)

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Quote:

Originally posted by PSYRGR
I'm astonished every time I see clips of those rounds in action. However, my comfort level drops a bit thinking about Mother Army getting it's hands on that stuff. There had better be some serious training to go along with the issue of that ammunition. Twice a year on the standard range just won't cut it (as if it does now).

I say leave that stuff to the Operator types.

John

To be honest, I am not sure that anyone will even get the chance to use the ammunition here in the States. We have rolled from impossilbe smoke and mirrors with stated personal and professional reputations attachted to that effect, to the current rumor mill that the JAG will rule the ammunition non compliant for any potential application due to greater fragmentation and resulting increased lethality. The too lethal aspects of any potential JAG ruling on these bullet designs to my knowledge is rumor mill only. But the fact that the rumor mill participants would accept such rationale as a legitamate reason for prohibiting the use of this new bullet technology for any of our military personnel is beyond my ability to comphrehend such logic.

Quote:

Originally posted by APLP
To be honest, I am not sure that anyone will even get the chance to use the ammunition here in the States. We have rolled from impossilbe smoke and mirrors with stated personal and professional reputations attachted to that effect, to the current rumor mill that the JAG will rule the ammunition non compliant for any potential application due to greater fragmentation and resulting increased lethality. The too lethal aspects of any potential JAG ruling on these bullet designs to my knowledge is rumor mill only. But the fact that the rumor mill participants would accept such rationale as a legitamate reason for prohibiting the use of this new bullet technology for any of our military personnel is beyond my ability to comphrehend such logic.

Interesting issue.

AL:

Want to fill us in on what authorities JAG will be considering in their analysis? This is not my area.

Quote:

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Interesting issue.

AL:

Want to fill us in on what authorities JAG will be considering in their analysis? This is not my area.

Not AL, or even a regular lawyer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn recently.

IMHO, an impartial analysis (which I doubt it will receive, since the proponent has already rendered a personal negative opinion anbout the ammo), for general military use would be done by the JAG proponent for that specialty and he would consider the applicable Laws of Land Warfare and any Treaties we observe.

Use against non-protected combatants would be at the call of the NCA.

There were a lot of earlier comments that the round was illegal because of the Ballistic Tip (which I believe has been removed) and that the round did not work anyway. Interesting to see that the naysayers have moved from the "it doesn't work" camp, to the "it is TOO lethal" position.

I do not think the issue is excessive lethality as much as it is the cosmetics of such a catastrophic wound from an issued small arm. Dead is dead, after all, and from my perspective, if lethal force was required, the sooner the Bad Guys die, the better. Less suffering for them as well. If lethality was the issue, we would be fighting these campaigns with BB guns and Nerf bats. The objection would likely be the horrific nature of the wounds which would make quite a visual for the media to show. The round is not DESIGNED to cause undue suffering any more than an RPG is. It just works that way, the same way a fast moving 5.56 does.

The severe wounds (and fratricide) will probably be more significant in the decision than the Laws of Land Warfare.

That is a shame, because in the time of useful consciousness the BG has when hit by the current small arms ammo, he can kill or wound a LOT of our soldiers and Marines.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR