These guys were passing out recruitment DVDs all over the FOBs in North Iraq. The money starts to look pretty good to a lot of the combat suport e-3s and e-4s who are tired of pulling DFAC gaurd for the thrid time in a week. A least one guy from my unit went to their school to try for a position when he ETSed. I'm waiting to hear how it went.

20K IS high for a course of that nature. Most LE/Military training runs about 1K per week, maybe a bit more if it includes lodging and meals.

I believe that the training course referenced is required for non-SOF personnel seeking employment with BW. They will let you sign a note for the cost of the training and take it out of your pay with them. The old "company store" deal all over again.

If you look at the article carefully, students also have to sign a two-year "no compete" clause, so they cannot work for anyone else for 24 months.

As far as the trainers and instructors go, you will see everything from former SEALs to foreign nationals to "security professionals" who have never served before. Note that very few, if any SF personnel work with them.

I believe that their recruiting video shows (or used to) a wild drive through an urban area of Iraq with them shooting up every vehicle they saw. A real "hearts and minds" campaign for the US.:rolleyes:

Caveat Emptor.

TR

I know a couple of guys that work for them - seem happy, they're still there. You will always be able to find somebody to say something good or bad about any outfit.

Sir, I was thinking that was a British company. Unless there are two videos from two companies out there like that...and then things get really sad.

From the non-PSD contracting side of the world, that is correct. I can think of one huge technology company that hoses its employees on benefits and pay yet people are lining up to work with them. Some folks for that company are awesome, some shouldn't be allowed to use a computer or look at a radio much less maintain them.

Fair enough.

SFC W

NYT Article
 

I know it's almost a full year old, but reading this Blackwater article reminded me of another article handling the same subject matter. It's too long to post, so i've included a link below:

Triple Canopy Article

The instructors I dealt with at Blackwater where solid enough. The Primary was an Aussie SAS dude and one of the AI's was a former 18B from 5th Group. Although, the other AI was an LEO/USMC Reservist I could have buttstroked on multiple occassions.

Is their training worth $20k. Like TR says, the going national rate is $1k a week. Now they do provide lodging and meals, but their DFAC just plain sucks, serving UGR-A's. The same heat and serve shit you eat down range. Now, if they are providing ammo and weapons, I could see how the bill gets up there considering the weapons they do have a capability of training on.

A couple of years ago I read an article about contract companies attempting to keep up with the demands to meet the "numbers" they had promised so to speak. Blackwater was specifically mentioned in the article. Basically the article stated Blackwater was mass producting , not training to standards to meet the demands of the contracts, but trained to a level of meeting quantity. The products produced were not adequately trained therefore many problems were encountered in the field. The article discussed the mass producing and the wealth Blackwater was gaining.

Sitting back here at home and reading this type of information along with the negative press Blackwater was getting at the time really made me think about this company's goals.

As someone stated in an earlier post, the training is more for the non-SOF types. This also make you think there may a lot of wannabes that attemp this venture thinking quick and easy big money.

In the industry, Triple Canopy is of a different league and has different operational expertise than BW.
In regards to the video of contractors shooting up civvies in Iraq that was online, the one that most people talk about is reputed to be AEGIS, which is a large British company under the command of Tim Spicer (look him up, it's "interesting"). However, there are a lot more videos of similar incidents, often less incriminating but certainly demonstrating the standards of the soldiers operating in the majority of the Private Military industry. Blackwater is featured in several of these videos.

These companies are very important not only to the future of the US and its approach to the 'sharp end' of foreign policy, but also ultimately to the successful development of countries like Iraq, Astan, and any other places they get sent.

Right now, the industry is for the most part not the best of influences, as TR asserted- they love what the article terms 'high speed' ops like PSD work... but are useless when it comes to winning hearts and minds and operating within the mandate of the Iraqi authorities.

PMCs also support a wide range of noxious industries in Iraq, including a burgeoning prostitution industry. Some may recall that another PMC, Dyncorp, had employees running slaver/child prostitution networks in Bosnia.

Without careful regulation, this industry could very easily be a negative influence on the situation in the sandbox.

JMO,

Solid

Solid,

When did you go through training?

Or are you merely speculating on these companies differences?

The people on here writing/posting actually know the people that run these companies and the sort of training each has to offer.

Unless you have "first" hand knowledge keep your opinions to yourself. What someone else "said" doesn't cut it here, not unless you're in the "business".

TS

Solid, wind your neck in.

I was talking about this subject to an individual from my unit while we were doing that 3rd day on the gate at Kirkuk.....turns out that he said an uncle of his had bought Blackwater from the original owners. His "uncle" had no military experience as far as I could tell from the ensuing conversation, so who knows if the story was b.s. But when I returned and had gone to the BMW dealership in FayetteNam, I was chatting with the saleman, who went to answer a call (I was just feeling him out prior to purchase) and I was approaced by a gentleman who asked what I did. He asked if I was considering going into the civilian market doing PSD. I mentioned that I had toyed with the idea and he told me that it would be best to stay away from BW simply because they had changed drastically over the years. From what he mentioned, there was a former operator that started the company (keep in mind I do not know the history of said org) and he retired and sold the business. He said that since they have hired just about anyone that has served even a day in the military, regardless of exp. He also said that many of the specops guys that had been with the conpany for years had started to bail because of the risk of being thrown together with folks that were not on their level, so to speak.

A6:

AFAIK, the ownership of BW has not changed since the first year it was started. Eric Prince was the money behind it then, and he still is now. I believe the story stated that too.

I think that the guy at the gate was BSing you.

Why someone would start a discussion about PSDs with a stranger in a car dealership is beyond me.:rolleyes:

The management at BW has told me before that they get thousands of resumes from people looking to cash in, and many of them have zero military experience. I would assume that is what the eight-week course was designed to try and remedy.

TR

Maybe I'm just crazy, but it seems to me like all of the hullaballu about Blackwater and other PMC's is just a repeat of the Executive Outcomes outcry from the early and mid 90's after Sierra Leone and Rwanda. Anybody else feel me on this?
I think that a big portion of the outcry stems from the government feeling threatened by an organization that they can't bully into giving away freedoms. A well regulated militia being neseccary to the security of a free state...

FWIW, I shared the bunkhouse at BlackWater with one of the early contractor classes. I was there for a Glock Armourer and three day pistol class, they were just beginning their train up.

Of the roughly two dozen guys going through the class, all but a handful were real young (21-25yo) with a few years Army infantry or Marines. The two team leaders were pretty squared away. One had been with the 75th in Mogadishu, the other's background I've forgotten. Both had a calm confident demeanor and kept the young guys in line, even after having a few beers.

They were on the range next to us at times, but I couldn't see all that much of what they were doing. They were, as one would expect, a lot more proficient with their M-4s than with the Glock 17s they were using. I saw some sloppy gunhandling and their transitions pretty much sucked. As stated, though, they were just beginning their train up.

The BlackWater instructors who were with them most often, were not terribly impressive. I think BW was having trouble fielding instructors at that time. We had three different instructors in three days of class. Only one was first rate. The others weren't bozos, but weren't in the league of folks like Holschen, Hamilton, and others I've seen who really shone.

HTH