Yeah, but you have to die first, that sucks.

I take it that nobody but the TS knows anything about water purification?

TR

Megalomania w/ a martyr complex, a la Osama?

Was my redirect back to the topic of this thread not clear, or would you two like your own forum?

TR

Well, for years in the back country I used to use a saturated iodine solution (pure USP-grade iodine crystals in solution in an antique little glass vial w/ a ground glass stopper).

During a trip with my son and two of his ten-year-old fiends (that is not a typo) I learned that iodine doesn't kill giardia. As a consequence of an...explosive...ride home I had to replace the back seat of my car. Up until that point I had thought giardia was a mountain thing for some reason. I was not popular with the Mommies.

That little experience taught me to filter and then disinfect. With your MSR Miox you don't need to do that -- it's rated to kill crypto and giardia without prefiltering -- pretty cool.

Now I use a PUR Scout to filter camping water before adding the iodine. The Scout is kinda old technology but it pumps easily.

No sir, clear sir. I like your forum, sir.

Home Water Purification
 

This post is aimed at the longer-term need for purified water. This info is in bits and pieces in the panflu thread but is consolidated here. Check out post 128 there for additional cautions and calculations.

I've gotten cross-trained to work our town's backup wells (which I am confident I could do if there is grid power or fuel for the generator) and purification system (now that one I'm less confident about but I'd give it my best shot). If I learned anything in the process it's how brittle the infrastructure is. Best case scenario if the grid goes down: intermittent supplies of water with uncertain quality (1? hour/day, rotating by sector).

So, even if the water comes out of the tap it will have to be purified. If it's coming from a stream, pond, or lake: obviously ditto. Remember, if the tap water is off or sporadic, the odds are good that the sewage treatment systems are buggered as well. Expect raw sewage, waterfowl feces, and other drek to be in the source water.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Purification generally requires two steps: filtration to remove larger pathogens (bacteria, protozoa, cryptosporidium, giardia, etc.) and chlorine to kill the viruses that are too small to be removed by the filter. Note that chlorine will not kill giardia and cryptosporidium -- the filtration step is a necessary part of the process.

So, here's my system:

Procedure: use a cheap, effective, ceramic filter (the same type of filters used in Berkely and Katadyn Camp gravity filtration systems) to filter water. Then use chlorine to purify the water of any viruses that have slipped past the filter. Mix the chlorine solution as needed using dry calcium hypochlorite "pool shock."

Pros: Cheap; no fuel consumed; no labor expended in the purification process (once you hump the water); the system is suitable for long-term storage without component degradation; simple, with no moving parts or consumables; large volumes purified quickly (3-4 gallons per hour, faster than a Berkely/Katadyn gravity filter); light weight; very long usage life span.

Cons: a bit bulky (but then this isn't a backpacking system).

System Components

- Two Rubbermaid "Keepers Rough Tote" 18 gallon size. Around here these are blue or gray in color and semi-rigid. Don't get the clear ones, the plastic is too brittle. In a pinch, any container large enough to hold the ceramic filter will do. These are $3.97 apiece at Lowes right now.

Attachment 6743

- At least 500 coffee filters from a big-box store, 1000 isn't out of the question. Get the biggest ones you can find. They're cheap.

- One "style A" filter system from Pure Water Products with a Doulton Super Sterasyl cartridge. $45
Attachment 6740

- Strictly Optional: One charcoal filter for each 500 gallons purified plus adapter: Omnipure filter + adapter from Pure Water Products. $22 ($15 per additional filter, the adapter is reusable). Here's the setup w/ the charcoal filter:
Attachment 6742

- One pound HTH® SUPER SOCK IT Shock 'N Swim 60% free chlorine by weight. (Be careful, you'll find 45% and 50% available chlorine formulations by the same manufacturer as well -- you don't want those.) This will handle 65,000 gallons of water. $2.99
Attachment 6741

- One plastic teaspoon.

- One 1.5 ounce shot glass, preferably glass or plastic.

- One 2 gallon container (or just a big plastic container to mix your sanitizing solution and two old one-gallon bleach containers and a funnel to fill them, that's what I ended up doing in my test run).

- One large plastic measuring container (I used a clean 5-gallon bucket with volume marks)

- Battery powered clock (you'll need this for many things if the grid is down)

- One of those plastic "tuff-scrub" sponge-shaped thingies from the dishwashing products aisle.

Procedure

1. Mix up a batch of stock sanitizing solution using the 60% pool shock and water: add one heaping teaspoon to a measured two gallons of water in the clean bucket. Mix until dissolved. Use the funnel to fill the two empty bleach containers. This 2 gallons of 0.86% free chlorine is your stock sanitizing solution. DO NOT DRINK IT. (Add one 1.5 ounce shot glass of this solution to each gallon of impure water and wait 30 minutes.)

2. Put one Tupperware tub on a table top. Lay the assembled ceramic filter (with delivered elbow fitting and plastic tubing attached per instructions) on it's side in the tub. Keep the open end of the tube outside the tub - do not contaminate it with dirty water. Measure whole gallons of dirty water into the tub, one at a time, until the water is only deep enough to cover the filter.

3. Now add one 1.5 ounce shotglass of stock sanitizing solution for each gallon of water you added in step 2. The filter needs to soak the first time you use it. Put a dinner plate or something over it to hold it under the water and let it soak until it doesn't float any more. I suggest you soak it overnight the first time you use it.

(Next day or several hours later when the filter no longer floats)

4. Put the second tub on the floor under the table. Get the free end of the tube attached to the filter in the top tub and suck on it like a straw until you get water (This is why we disinfected the water in the top tub -- you are getting it in your mouth in this step. From now on we'll disinfect after filtering.) Quickly drop the end of the tube into the clean lower tub. You should have started a siphon and the water should continue to flow. If not, try again. If you can't suck any water or the siphon won't stay going you either have an air leak in the system or the filter wasn't soaked long enough.

5. Fill the top tub with more dirty water. Do not disinfect this water (do not add more stock sanitizing solution). Let a full tub go through the filter.

6. When the bottom tub is full, add one shot glass of sanitizing solution to the tub for each gallon it contains. (Yes, we're overdosing a bit as some of the water was already treated in the top tub -- just do it.)

7. Wait 30 minutes and then throw the water out. Yes, that's right, toss it. The first batch is full of ceramic dust from the filter and needs to go. We disinfected it to keep the bottom tub clean.

8. Add more dirty water to the top tub. The directions said adding water to the top tub would re-start the siphon even if it had run dry and to my surprise they were right. When the bottom tub is filled, add one shotglass of stock sanitizing solution per gallon and wait 30 minutes until using.

Notes:

During a filtering run, my plan is to keep the top tub continually filled with dirty water and keep filling Tupperware tubs until I fill four tubs or run out of water (the tubs have tight-fitting lids). But then I have a large supply of water on hand. YMMV.

18 gallons makes for one heavy tub. Put it where you want it and then fill it.

Measure 18 gallons into one of your tubs one gallon at a time and mark the fill line each time. You can repeat the process for each tub or transfer the marks using a rule. You need to know the correct volume to get the right dose of stock solution added.

If the dirty water is particularly nasty, let the particulates settle out before filtering to preserve the filter's life. Or, use the coffee filters to pre-filter the dirty water before you put it in the top tub. You'll have to jerry-rig a container to hold the filter.

If the ceramic filter slows, use the "tuff-scrub" plastic pad to scrub the exterior. This won't hurt the filter and will restore its flow rate.

You can avoid rigamarole if you prep the filter NOW using clean tap water with the proper amount of chlorine solution added (you can use unscented household bleach if you don't want to crack open a pack of pool shock, check the Clorox web site for drops/gal). After soaking the filter and runing a tub of water through it, seal the filter into a Ziplok bag and it will be ready for use. I'll probably run chlorinated water through it every 4-6 months just in case.

Addendum: I use the setup with the charcoal filter cartridge in-line with the ceramic candle. This adds a couple of feet's worth of tubing to the system. If you don't choose to use the charcoal filter your tubing attached to your filter may be too short to extend up the side of the top tub and then down into the bottom tub. You can easily extend the tube length using additional tubing from the hardware store --1/4 inch tubing is a standard size for refrigerator water systems. Get a straight fitting for hooking two lengths together. Whole thing'll cost 3 bucks. TEST YOUR SYSTEM OUT BEFORE YOU NEED IT!

Water purification
 

I think our life support shop started to put a water purification straw in our survival kits. Suppose to strain out all sorts of junk while drinking. I'm flying on Tuesday, so I'll stop over there and find out about them.

I'll also get some info on the systems we use in our 20 man life raft kits.

There's an addendum to post 270 "Home Water Purification" in bold at the bottom. I wanted to keep it all in one place.

mug:

Great info, thanks.

Your point is well made that filtration and treatment are both needed to make water potable.

A number of different chemicals can be used to treat the water. We should also be aware that there are other potential contaminants that cannot be removed by treatment alone.

The current spinach scare with E. Coli contamination should point out the routine bacterial threat that we face lurking in the background of our food supply.

There are a number of ways to store potable water in a home, some of which are better suited than others. Used milk or soda bottles are good, but are bulky. Few people have the space to store the 5-10 gallons per day that would be required by a small family. Due to the cost of shipping, 55 gallon drums are not a particularly good solution. Anyone have any other suggestions for how to store a large amount of water safely in the home?

TR

This is a repost from a few pages back:

The empty 5 liter bladders that boxed wine comes in are refillable. Left in the box they are easily stackable; out of the box they can be frozen and used in ice chests. Also, in the box, they can be grabbed on the way out the door if you are in a hurry.

http://professionalsoldiers.com/foru...4&postcount=80

Pat

If you have some warning that a problem is coming, I've seen it suggested that a child's wading pool will hold (depending on the size) as much as sev'l hundred gallons. For some people keeping one on hand and filling it if weather or some forseeable problem threatens may make sense. Not a good long term storage option, but a viable stop gap in some situations.

I am thinking bigger than a wading pool and closed from the elements. The military stores water in blivets. This made me look at a commercially available alternative.

We have an unused water bed mattress that will connect directly to a water hose. They can probably be found at yard sales and the like for a few dollars. New mattress bladders are less than $100. I am thinking that rinsed out well to remove any traces of algecide, with a little chlorine added, it will be easily stored in my crawl space under the house and can hold a couple of hundred gallons of water. I could actually store quite a few down there. By my calculations, a Queen mattress should hold over 220 gallons and a King around 300. That should keep a careful family of four in drinking water for more than six weeks.

If I reconnect the hose and locate the running end down hill, I can even have running water.

Has anyone else considered this?

TR

I think a waterbed matress would work fine. Excitable types get the vapors about "non-food-grade" vinyl, but if it was new or rinsed thoroughly it would be fine. I found one reference at least that says it's OK (of course, all the guys selling barrels say you'll die):

"Water beds hold up to 400 gallons, but some water beds contain toxic chemicals that are not fully removed by many purifiers. If you designate a water bed in your home as an emergency resource, drain it yearly and refill it with fresh water containing two ounces of bleach per 120 gallons."

http://www.state.nj.us/njoem/prepare...foodwater.html

Don't discount the pool idea out of hand -- you can get some serious volumes for reasonable $$ (compared to blue barrels, certainly) if you have a back yard or a garage to put it in. The following run $334 - $488, and that includes filters and ladders etc. that you don't need. You might be able to find a pool without the ancillary stuff. Of course you'll have to add in a "large enough" blue tarp (or some other cover) and a case of pool shock and test strips

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...pecifications:

12 feet across x 42 inches deep; holds 2,478 gallons
15 feet across x 42 inches deep; holds 4,131 gallons
18 feet across x 42 inches deep; holds 5,946 gallons

Basically you are adding a pond to your back yard/garage and the water will have to be treated as such, but at least there's a lot of it.

Your circumstances and the event you're planning for will dictate if it's a viable option -- you know what my short-term worry is. If you're likely to be home to set it up, have your other preps complete, and your climate allows, you'll probably have the 2 days warning it will take to set one of these big guys up and fill it.

I could fit a 15 foot pool in my two-car garage -- 4100 gallons is a lot of water, and you'll need it under some circumstances.

My big concern with water requirement estimates is that they don't add in the water you'll need if someone gets sick and you must do lots of laundry. If the panflu breaks out and stays true to current form, there'll be lots of laundry to do -- the current strains hit the gut very hard.

Anybody think about portible bastball goals that use a tank for a weighted base? A good deal of the people I've seen buy them put concrete in them but they are designed to hold water and/or, up to 40 gallons.

Pros: They are descrete, provide one something to do with the kids, they are common, and you can move them around fairly easily.

Cons: They do not hold enough water for long term use, it can be hard to get the water out (two peices of hose and a bulb like what one finds on outboard boat motars and their feul tanks or a pump style purifier, can fix that), they can cost up to $500 dallors.

____________________

TR would having a waterbed heater underneath to keep the water from freezing over with temps getting low in Northern states be a bad idea and waste of electricity?