Professional Soldiers ® - BATFE

Professional Soldiers ® (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/index.php)

- The Early Bird (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45)

- - BATFE - Project Gunrunner (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30509)

Holder has a 'tell'

Easy on a poker table. When he's comfortable with a softball Q, he's quite articulate (ala Teleprompter in Chief). A pointed question returning to Gunwalker redlines his eyeblink tachometer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger52 (Post 423528)

Easy on a poker table. When he's comfortable with a softball Q, he's quite articulate (ala Teleprompter in Chief). A pointed question returning to Gunwalker redlines his eyeblink tachometer.

Even in his responses, he really does nothing but reword the question/statement.
He also does a direct dive down to the left with his face when he's thinking of how to reword his previous statements so that he doesn't look like such a guilty b@stard.

Eric Holder called to Resign

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO6dN...ature=youtu.be

Congressman Allen West calls for Eric Holder to resign. I support him in this endeavor. It is about time, individuals within this administration are held accountable for actions that have occurred under their watch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stargazer (Post 424495)

Very well said Congressman West.

:lifter

Motives, allegiances add to saga intrigue

Quote:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...ious-fall.html

Quote:

Many have suggested that the ATF should be abolished.

Codrea and Vanderboegh say that last option would be a mistake because firearms enforcement might become the province of a larger, more powerful agency such as the FBI -- difficult to attack politically.

"I very much prefer the devil that I know in rehab to the devil that I don't know," Vanderbeogh says.

Dobyns says the ATF is filled with good agents, and he's hoping the new acting director, B. Todd Jones, will clean house by removing all of the top management.

Cefalu sees major reforms. "Change is coming," he wrote in a recent blog. "THAT IS EXACTLY what we have been asking for. ... Take a deep breath and let's see where they are going to take our bureau."

Harry L. Wilson, director of Policy and Opinion Research at Roanoke College, says political motivations in a scandal often generate unsupported conspiracy theories and unwanted results.

"It was botched incredibly badly," he says of Fast and Furious. "But I can't imagine anybody was intentionally putting guns into Mexico as a ploy to regulate firearms in the U.S. To me, that is just beyond paranoia. ... The issues are always more complicated than what they appear to be, and than how partisans on both sides make them out to be."

Wilson, who wrote the book, "Guns, Gun Control and Elections: The Politics and Policy of Firearms," says attempts at secrecy undoubtedly conflated the controversy over Fast and Furious.

"Cover-ups often are worse than what you were trying to cover up, whether it's Watergate or 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman,' " he said. "You can never separate out political motives. If you look at Watergate, were Democrats after Richard Nixon? Yeah, but there was a reason to be after him. It's the perfect scenario: Go after the bad guy and do yourself good at the same time.

"At the end of all this, where does it stop? Nobody knows."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...#ixzz1evB4aQAJ

A conspiracy.........I don't know, but Holders statement (below) complaining about a lack of effective tools and a need to restrict multiple rifle purchases is absolute horse hockey and lead to conspiracy. Maybe Holder and Jan the Man ought to consider enforcing the Laws on the books and assist States trying to enforce the Laws instead of suing them.

Quote:

In a letter to Congress last month complaining about "political posturing," Holder said authorities are "severely impaired by a lack of effective law enforcement tools." The penalty for straw purchases is so weak, he argued, that trafficking is not deterred and agents have no leverage to flip suspects into informers. Holder also lamented the lack of laws restricting multiple rifle purchases.

Well, at least they're not going after Chore Boy Scrub Pads yet.

Oh, wait...............

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyz (Post 424500)

Very well said Congressman West.

:lifter

:D ;)

Big Teddy :munchin

Nothing much will happen, they'll throw a couple agents under the bus, while the real criminals get away. The military does the same, throw a couple of low raking enlisted or low grade officers under the bus, and cover for the higher ups. It's the SOS, just another day in the perverted/ homo empire.

Quote:

Harry L. Wilson, director of Policy and Opinion Research at Roanoke College, says political motivations in a scandal often generate unsupported conspiracy theories and unwanted results.

"It was botched incredibly badly," he says of Fast and Furious. "But I can't imagine anybody was intentionally putting guns into Mexico as a ploy to regulate firearms in the U.S. To me, that is just beyond paranoia. ...

Horsehockey, and a failure of the imagination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete (Post 425855)

Well, at least they're not going after Chore Boy Scrub Pads yet.

Oh, wait...............

I just finished firelapping my last .45 Colt Ruger & getting the cylinder just the way I want; so I should hide the tools?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hand (Post 423540)

And his mouth tightens, like Obama whistling his "c" and "s" when he's on the spot.

The glance to the left could be an incomplete tell fragment of a deception cluster depending on if he is left handed or right handed. ;)

Holder has a 'tell' alright - like his boss - when he is being deceptive his lips are moving.

N.B. the lack of pink font.

Everything ATF says should be in pink font...

'Fast and Furious' Whistleblowers Struggle Six Months After Testifying Against ATF Program

By William Lajeunesse
Published November 30, 2011 | FoxNews.com
Some selected excerpts; the full story at Fox is HERE.

* The administration denied it at the time and questioned the agents' integrity. The men were nervous and scared. They said they feared for their careers, their reputation and their families.

* And while President Obama has said the operation was a mistake and that "people who screwed up will be held accountable," the record so far does not bear that out. Those in charge of the botched operation have been reassigned or promoted, their pensions intact. But many of those who blew the whistle face isolation, retaliation and transfer.

* Here's what has happened to the managers of the operation:

-- Acting ATF Chief Ken Melson, who oversaw the operation, is now an adviser in the Office of Legal Affairs. He remains in ATF's Washington, D.C., headquarters.

-- Acting Deputy Director Billy Hoover, who knew his agency was walking guns and demanded an "exit strategy" just five months into the program, is now the special agent in charge of the D.C. office. He, too, did not have to relocate.

-- Deputy Director for Field Operations William McMahon received detailed briefings about the illegal operation and later admitted he shares "responsibility for mistakes that were made.” Yet, [B]he also stays in D.C., ironically as the No. 2 man at the ATF's Office of Internal Affairs.

* -- Group Supervisor David Voth managed Fast and Furious on a day-to-day basis and repeatedly stopped field agents from interdicting weapons headed to the border, according to congressional testimony. ATF boosted Voth to chief of the ATF Tobacco Division, where he now supervises more employees in Washington than he ever did in Phoenix.

* Special Agent Jay Dobyns, who is suing the agency for breach of contract, is skeptical.

"These guys are protected. They're insulated. They're all part of a club," Dobyns said, alleging that the ATF has a history of retaliating against its own who speak up.

* Dodson continued to challenge Voth, saying the operation was killing people in Mexico and suggested it was only a matter of time before a "border agent or sheriff's deputy" would be killed by one of the guns they let go.

"If you're going to make an omelet, you've got to scramble some eggs," Voth replied, according to a congressional report.
---------------
The tale of what has happened at the field-agent level...? another story further down in the article. (and I'm no ATF fan to begin with)

:mad:

Obama Admin Seals Records of Murdered Border Patrol Agent Implicated in Fast and Furious

And to think that Attorney General Eric Holder is getting testy about congressional calls for his resignation. After all, the Justice Department has nothing to hide, right?:

The Obama Administration has abruptly sealed court records containing alarming details of how Mexican drug smugglers murdered a U.S. Border patrol agent with a gun connected to a failed federal experiment that allowed firearms to be smuggled into Mexico.

This means information will now be kept from the public as well as the media. Could this be a cover-up on the part of the “most transparent” administration in history? After all, the rifle used to kill the federal agent (Brian Terry) last December in Arizona’s Peck Canyon was part of the now infamous Operation Fast and Furious. Conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), the disastrous scheme allowed guns to be smuggled into Mexico so they could eventually be traced to drug cartels.

Link via Judicial Watch. The murder of a U.S. Border Patrol agent is related to the Justice Department willingly turning over thousands of guns to Mexican criminal gangs, and Obama administration is hiding information about his death from the public. Amazing.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...us_610783.html

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

Quote:

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

More Fast and Furious coverage:
Memos contradict Holder on Fast and Furious
Agent: I was ordered to let guns "walk" into Mexico
Gunwalking scandal uncovered at ATF

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

This revelation angers gun rights advocates. Larry Keane, a spokesman for National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group, calls the discussion of Fast and Furious to argue for Demand Letter 3 "disappointing and ironic." Keane says it's "deeply troubling" if sales made by gun dealers "voluntarily cooperating with ATF's flawed 'Operation Fast & Furious' were going to be used by some individuals within ATF to justify imposing a multiple sales reporting requirement for rifles."

The Gun Dealers' Quandary

Several gun dealers who cooperated with ATF told CBS News and Congressional investigators they only went through with suspicious sales because ATF asked them to.

Sometimes it was against the gun dealer's own best judgment.

Read the email

In April, 2010 a licensed gun dealer cooperating with ATF was increasingly concerned about selling so many guns. "We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to the bad guys," writes the gun dealer to ATF Phoenix officials, "(W)e were hoping to put together something like a letter of understanding to alleviate concerns of some type of recourse against us down the road for selling these items."

Read the email

ATF's group supervisor on Fast and Furious David Voth assures the gun dealer there's nothing to worry about. "We (ATF) are continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques which I cannot go into detail."

Two months later, the same gun dealer grew more agitated.

"I wanted to make sure that none of the firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of the bad guys. I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance that the guns are not getting south or in the wrong hands...I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk of agents (sic) safety because I have some very close friends that are US Border Patrol agents in southern AZ as well as my concern for all the agents (sic) safety that protect our country."

"It's like ATF created or added to the problem so they could be the solution to it and pat themselves on the back," says one law enforcement source familiar with the facts. "It's a circular way of thinking."

The Justice Department and ATF declined to comment. ATF officials mentioned in this report did not respond to requests from CBS News to speak with them.

The "Demand Letter 3" Debate

The two sides in the gun debate have long clashed over whether gun dealers should have to report multiple rifle sales. On one side, ATF officials argue that a large number of semi-automatic, high-caliber rifles from the U.S. are being used by violent cartels in Mexico. They believe more reporting requirements would help ATF crack down. On the other side, gun rights advocates say that's unconstitutional, and would not make a difference in Mexican cartel crimes.

Two earlier Demand Letters were initiated in 2000 and affected a relatively small number of gun shops. Demand Letter 3 was to be much more sweeping, affecting 8,500 firearms dealers in four southwest border states: Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas. ATF chose those states because they "have a significant number of crime guns traced back to them from Mexico." The reporting requirements were to apply if a gun dealer sells two or more long guns to a single person within five business days, and only if the guns are semi-automatic, greater than .22 caliber and can be fitted with a detachable magazine.

On April 25, 2011, ATF announced plans to implement Demand Letter 3. The National Shooting Sports Foundation is suing the ATF to stop the new rules. It calls the regulation an illegal attempt to enforce a law Congress never passed. ATF counters that it has reasonably targeted guns used most often to "commit violent crimes in Mexico, especially by drug gangs."

Reaction

Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, is investigating Fast and Furious, as well as the alleged use of the case to advance gun regulations. "There's plenty of evidence showing that this administration planned to use the tragedies of Fast and Furious as rationale to further their goals of a long gun reporting requirement. But, we've learned from our investigation that reporting multiple long gun sales would do nothing to stop the flow of firearms to known straw purchasers because many Federal Firearms Dealers are already voluntarily reporting suspicious transactions. It's pretty clear that the problem isn't lack of burdensome reporting requirements."

On July 12, 2011, Sen. Grassley and Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., wrote Attorney General Eric Holder, whose Justice Department oversees ATF. They asked Holder whether officials in his agency discussed how "Fast and Furious could be used to justify additional regulatory authorities." So far, they have not received a response. CBS News asked the Justice Department for comment and context on ATF emails about Fast and Furious and Demand Letter 3, but officials declined to speak with us.

"In light of the evidence, the Justice Department's refusal to answer questions about the role Operation Fast and Furious was supposed to play in advancing new firearms regulations is simply unacceptable," Rep. Issa told CBS News.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...n-regulations/

Holder testifying live

Holder testifying live on Fast and Furious

Thursday, December 8, 2011

9:30 a.m.
2141 Rayburn
Full Committee

Hearing on: Oversight Hearing on the United States Department of Justice
http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/calweek.html

and televised live on C-SPAN3

9:30 a.m. Full Committee
12/8/2011 Hearing on: Oversight Hearing on the United States Department of Justice

http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN3/