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That's a bunch of stuff'\.
Don't forget the Rikshaw trailer to carry it all in. Blitz
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The equipment list is harder to decide than the traveling partner, TR mentioned him earlier, Gordon Smith. Anyone that has spent more than a day with him in the woods will earn something and I know his knowledge of primitive skills and abilities is vast. However you will have to increase the amount of Rum carried.
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Saw a preview for this yesterday and thought it to be in a similar vein as this thread.
Expedition Africa: Stanley and Livingstone Twenty miles off the coast of eastern Africa, four modern-day explorers are sailing toward the unknown, the deep interior of Tanzania. They’ll travel 970 miles through African terrain that is as stunning as it is fraught with danger. Using only a compass and basic maps, they will attempt to recapture the spirit of one of the world’s most remarkable adventures—journalist Henry Morton Stanley’s perilous 1871 journey to find Dr. Stanley Livingstone. Their historic exploration has been captured by one of the premiere storytellers of our time, Mark Burnett, for the eight-part television event, EXPEDITION AFRICA: STANLEY & LIVINGSTON Source: http://www.history.com/expedition/preview/ May be an interesting show to watch. Apart from the obligatory complaining about the hardships, this appeals to me due to there being an objective in addition to the survival aspect. As opposed to shows like "Out of the Wild" were the objective is survival. |
Was a gorgeous day here yesterday. Wife and I decided to take a daytrip up over the mountains to Md. and back.
I had been reading and pondering this thread. I dont have a time machine, but some of the areas here are like a time warp. On the way back, I noticed a sign informing the public that there was an encampment at Fort Necessity. I began thinking that both Lt. Col Washington and MG Edward Braddock Both suffered a crushing defeats on their journeys from Wills Creek (now Cumberland, Md) to rout the french from Fort Duquesne (aka Fort Pitt). Braddocks Road runs paralell to the National Road Quote:
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The point here being that a side trip (about 24 miles of virgin land) from the Great Allegheny Passage to the sites of Fort Necessity and Braddocks Grave could be also be made. Im kicking around the idea as a local SFA chapter endeavor for around the end of September early October. Would appreciate any advice, input or participations. Groups have made this trips in 12 mile segments on various weekends but to my knowledge no one has made the whole trail at one time. |
Can this be accomplished successfully? Yes
Do you accept the challenge? Yes Where do you start? Jamestown, VA What route do you take? First Leg (15 MAR – 15 SEP): From Jamestown west-southwest cross Virginia, through Appalachians, cross Tennessee, Arkansas, and into Texas. Winter nearby Canadian River in vicinity of what is now Amarillo from SEP to MAR. Hunt buffalo and jerk meat for winter. Shelter in teepee. Learn Kiowa, Southern Cheyenne, Comanche. Second Leg: (15 MAR – 15 SEP) Due west thru northern New Mexico, Arizona and into Southern California. Turn north through Sacramento Valley then at Sacramento River turn north-northwest to vicinity of Eureka, then follow the coast north to Astoria. Where do you plan to finish? Astoria, OR (Fort Clatsop) How long do you think it will take you? 18 – 20 mos What is in your field gear? Binoculars, 2 magnifying glasses, 100ft ½ inch rope, writing log and pencils, 5 pounds rock salt, 2 pounds pepper, complete field first aid kit, 1 pint whiskey, Bible, various stitching needles and thread, several colored glass beads (for barter), poncho w/liner, 1 light sweater and 1 heavy sweater, sox, skivs, several bandanas, 2 bars lye soap, 2 pr silk long johns, 1 pr lightweight hiking pants, 1 pair wool hiking pants, 1 pair buckskins, buffalo robe, 1 wide brim hat, 1 pair light hiking shoes, 1 pr boots, 25 Spanish gold pieces (for barter), 2 Magnesium Fire Starters, 2 wool blankets, 4 foil survival blankets, 4 leather bags various sizes (2 that can be used to haul water), pup-tent, 10x10 tarp, snare line, fish hooks and 10# test line, 3 canteens, cooking utensils, smoking tobacco (for barter). What modern items are critical, and what items from the period will work for you? Critical modern items: 2 engineers compass, foot wear, tent, tarp, edged tools, binoculars, magnifying glasses, 2 wheeled pull-cart. Critical period items: Buckskins, buffalo robe What are your priorities? Water, food, shelter. Make ~ 15 miles/day How will you carry it? Two-wheeled pull-cart. (Modern equipment. Cabela’s-type game cart. Will buy the thing with my gold.) What firearms will you take? None. Too much weight. Just take 2 long bows and as many arrows as I can get, 1 pound gun powder (for medicinal use and barter). How much ammo, accessories, etc.? No ammo. Accessories listed in field gear above. What edged tools do you take? Sapper-spade, 2 Gurka knives, 2 machetes, 2 large survival hunting knives, small folding saw, butcher knife, small hatchet. (Extra edged tools could be bartered as necessary.) What navigational aids do you take? 2 compasses, sextant, table of astronomical elements, timepiece, map of U.S. What do you think your odds are of successfully completing this journey? 100% What do you do in the 30 days before you leave? Learn to navigate. Train and prepare. Talk to anyone who had recently come back from the west. (Talk to my detailer and try to get my orders changed. When he says no, train and prepare some more.) Let’s think this one through as stated first, we can do branches and sequels later. Thoughts? The mission is to explore, not necessarily conquer, neither is the mission a race. Would want to impact the flora/fauna as little as possible, consistent with survival. Try to leave as little sign of me as I passed. Important to learn how to communicate with indigenous people for support if needed, esp in identifying local medicinal herbs, edible roots/berries, safe route ahead, etc. Game would be abundant (imagine no limit on trout and no deer tags!). Must smoke/jerk meat for travel as it’s killed. Use excess meat for barter as needed. Live on as much vegetation (roots, berries, legumes, etc) as possible to ease amount of calories needed for digestion. Object to move from can-see to ~ mid afternoon before making camp. If making good time move every-other-day, vice continuous. (The more calories you burn the more you have to eat/drink.) This is not a race but an exploration. The goal is to learn. Hunt in late afternoon/dusk. Taking the southern route will lessen impact of winter. Means crossing the Mojave desert in early spring, but Monsoon rains should lessen impact. If I had to take the northern route I’d leave from Philadelphia in late FEB and plan to winter in Dakotas camping NLT AUG and resuming in APR. Northern trip would require about another 60 days due to crossing the Rockies. Would lose the PDA and the recorders and all the hi-tech stuff…too much additional weight. Besides I’ll have a log book and pencils! An interesting challenge. Fun to consider. Sounds like the beginning of a new reality show. I’d watch! |
Anybody home yet? :confused:
Pat |
Home. Waiting for pick-up at La Jolla Cove!
Seriously, waiting to retire and teach at a charter school where I can have a project where students can have beyond a musket without assuming it is 'gang-related'! |
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p.s.: My wife is a certificated Schoolmarm! ;) Pat |
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While taking US Military History at the Univ.of Az. The Prof. mentioned that back in the 60's he was approached by two men from SF, they asked him to compile a list of the books pertaining to warfare with the Indians thinking there may be some lessons they could take away. Somewhere there is an excellent list of the books they compiled. I saw the list he gave to them and have read many of the books. John C Cremony's "Life Among the Apache" was my favorite, Lt Beale's writings ( crossed todays NM and AZ along Route 66 with Camels), Gen. Crook,etc...all wonderful reading and very insightful, perhaps even today? There are detailed descriptions of traveling across the US Southwest, the encounters with the different indigenous peoples and equipment used. Some of the gear you would be taking back would really influence the Indian population, both in good ways and bad. ie. once when the geological survey was mapping out the Southern border ( which was to include a sea port in the Gulf of California....they found out there were sporting houses in Yuma and look at the line we got) they used a telescope to view an eclipse of the moon, with few skills in the language of the Pimas they told the Indians it was a moon cannon. They were almost killed by the tribe when the eclipse began and only quick thinking and the excuse that it would only be temporary so as to thwart an Apache raiding party delayed the action, when the moon reappeared they were elevated to god like status and the celebration began. Grizzly bear ranged down into New Mexico, the Spanish had been waring with the Indians for nearly a century and a half by 1700's, routes, water holes, game areas could all be referenced before the journey.
It pays to be with the guys who want to know..... |
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Besides, there were about 50 people in what was then Arizona :D with little transportation, and no need for a poor seaport in the Sea of Cortez, especially after only recently obtaining one of the best natural harbors in the world - San Diego! It does make a great story, however! |
Can this be accomplished successfully?
Sure Do you accept the challenge? Sure Where do you start? Charleston would be fine. What route do you take? Start at Charleston and go west toward Atlanta and then Birmingham to Texarkana and Red River into Texas to San Juan River to Colorado River to California. Being from the south the first part of the trip is easy for me to make and as general rule the Indian tribes were peaceful. The eastern Texas tribes were also agricultural and peaceful. Where do you plan to finish? Lower California between Long Beach and San Diego depending on what route can be found with water available every two days of marching. Take my time and set the rendezvous for the latest possible date but get there early and wait in sunny California How long do you think it will take you? 2200 miles straight line equals about 3000 actually traveled 8 miles a day gives 380-400 days I think I would start in March. I would be into the Mississippi delta by early autumn and the River crossing would be easier but I would have to face winter out on the western plains. What is in your field gear? Beside things I mentioned in other answers I would take the following Leather sewing kit Six pairs of sox Hat with brim One complete change of pants and shirts One pair of modern boots and one of high moccasins capable of being resoled What modern items are critical, and what items from the period will work for you? Backpack Water purification device 2-Tarps for tent Fishhooks 2 Titanium pots Synthetic fill Sleeping bag Space blanket Synthetic thread, twine, rope. Fire starting gear Monocular or telescope First aid kit with modern antibiotics Two 5 qt water bags and two one quart hard canteens. A small amount of gold for trade with the Spanish but the steel arrowheads and trade knives would be more versatile for the natives. Couple of dry bags for stuff like ammo Calendar device such as a watch. Need to know day and month in order to stay on schedule. What are your priorities? Water is critical once one gets into the plains and desert regions – Say west Texas to California. The object is to get to the Pacific Ocean so the lower California crossing has to be reviewed very carefully for water sources. Snow storms in the western states - one must be prepared to survive them, Safe river crossing are important to not getting hurt or losing gear in the eastern leg Staying healthy and not pushing too hard and fast. My plan is to pack about 8 miles per day which will take about 4-5 hours. Cook one meal per day in the evening and use leftovers for breakfast and lunch. So I would have about 4+ hours for hunting/gathering and gear repair and camp chores. How will you carry it? Expedition sized backpack if allowed (the term “period luggage” might mean a wood frame pack which will be a bummer but easier to repair if something breaks). I have a wheel cart that I use often when hunting and it is useless without a good trail so I have no inclination to take something like that. What firearms will you take? I would take a folding carbon fiber stocked Volquartsen22 mag with iron sights and carbon fiber wrap barrel. 500 rds of ammo = 5pounds and that’s about one bullet a day. MV is about 2000fps. Only two animals that would present a problem are the two species of bears and if you get into a fight with a bear you just got a major problem no matter what firearm you got. In a fight with hostile people, the rifle has accuracy and killing ability beyond what the opposing force will have. Of course you will be outnumbered but it won’t be the first time so that is nothing new. “Used for self defence in a revolver, the .22 WMR has compiled a 42% one shot stop rate according to Marshall and Sanow” Wolves, mountain lions and other large predators get the majority of their food from small game and that is my plan. Small game is more plentiful and easier to kill and cook. You spend all day killing a buffalo and then days drying meat as opposed to just whacking a rabbit and moving on. If you move along waterways then you will have opportunities for fish, waterfowl, rabbits, etc, plus big game. Killing a buffalo, moose or large elk can be done with the small caliber if one is willing to spend a couple of days at it. All that is needed is to take one rear quartering shot into the intestines and not spook the animal. As the pain gets bad it will bed down and then after 6-8 hours peritonitis will take over and you walk up and finish it with a knife- BTDT. Fooling around with a large animal and trying to dry meat and tan hides for new boots will be a very time consuming and labor intensive effort and you can’t carry much meat anyway. The only real reasons to kill a buffalo is if you need the neck hide for boot soles or if you are holed up over wintering. A dry buffalo hide weighs about 25 pounds and occupies about 2 cubic feet of space or more. Probably will need to stop for two or three weeks in the late fall to refurbish boots and clothing with tanned hides – hair on and off. I would take string suitable for a bowstring (nonstretch) and if necessary build (which I know how to do), trade for or steal a bow and make arrows. I would need to do a little research on trees suitable for bow wood along the route. But as long as the rifle was working and ammo supply was good I would not carry the extra weight. I might carry about 50 steel, 2 blade broadheads as I don’t think I want to learn how to nap flint and you need weight forward on an arrow. How much ammo, accessories, etc.? At least 500 rds and perhaps another 200 if it will make the weight limit. Four magazines of 9 rds each. No cleaning gear. What edged tools do you take? I am not expert on survival type knives, but I would guess the current Harsey/Reeves SF is a good general purpose knife. I would ditch the scabbard as being too heavy and sew me a light weight one such as I make for my butchering knives. I would add six trade knives and leave most of the gold behind. I would have to research taking a stone versus finding suitable rocks for sharpening. I have used folding saws a lot and they are good for the weight and I might carry one for building rafts until I cross the Mississippi River. It would be high on my optional equipment list. What navigational aids do you take? Duplicate set of water proof maps and one compass. Map scale would be 1 inch = 10 miles which would give me a 30 page set using 10 inch by 10 inch paper. I would mark alternate routes and checkpoints for schedule conformance What do you think your odds are of successfully completing this journey? 95+% Other than bad luck I think the need to have a balanced diet and avoid nutritional deficiencies is going to be the most difficult part. I spend a couple of months alone every year in the mountains so I pretty much understand individual effort and being alone. What do you do in the 30 days before you leave? The one thing I would study would be identification of edible plants. My knowledge of them is very weak. Getting meat I can do but vegetables/berries would be a challenge. Second I would relearn Spanish. Review first aid and common diseases. Read up on basic leather craft for boot and moccasins, Finally, I would review the route in great detail because the San Juan/ Colorado River legs have a lot of vertical terrain and one would need to have that part well defined. Also lay out a alternative route through the Spanish settlements. Get in shape for a heavy ruck. |
Alone
Alone
A number of people have posted on this thread. Just how many of you have been out in the deep dark woods - all alone by yourself - nobody around for miles - moved and hiked a wilderness area for at least a couple of nights? For those that have not you'll find a whole different mindset in "ALONE" vs at least one other companion. And I'm not talking about being alone at some campground surrounded by people. I'm talking way out there. Try it and see what it's like. But a word of warning - know where you're going and the trail you'll be hiking - leave a hike plan with somebody you trust and make a contact plan for Sunday night so you can tell them you're out OK -and stick with the plan and stay on the trail. You break your leg Saturday morning you'll only have to sit there 48 hours before somebody comes looking. A lot of those areas have real spotty cell coverage. And hey - you guys that have done it don't be filling up this thread with "Hey, I've done that" - and you others - get out there and do it. Do it enough and you'll know why Buffalobob talks to himself sometimes :D . |
Bob:
I have to say, on this occasion, I like the way you are thinking. I might vary on a few specifics, but you have a decent plan. TR |
Excellent thread....I'm glad this was brought back up, I'd missed it.
Can this be accomplished successfully? Yes Do you accept the challenge? Yes Where do you start? New York City What route do you take? I’d head west until I arrived at the Ohio River. I’d make a raft and float down the Ohio until I reached southern IL and then cross over to St. Louis. I’d follow the Missouri River to the Platte and then the Platte into WY. There I’d cross the Rockies at South Pass and then hug the south side of the Wind River Mtns since there are better sources of water near them. At some point I’d cut over into ID, reach the Columbia River and follow it to the coast. I’m familiar with most of the route and I can handle the cold weather better than the heat and humidity of the southern route. By following the rivers navigation is easier and they provide a food and water source. I could also use a canoe to travel as long as the water isn’t high. Where do you plan to finish? At the mouth of the Columbia River. How long do you think it will take you? Two years minimum and possibly three years. What is in your field gear? I would wear period gear for the most part, buckskins and wool, though I would want more modern boots to start. I would guess that at some point I’d have to switch over to self-made footwear. I would take some modern long underwear. What modern items are critical, and what items from the period will work for you? Modern: Bic Lighters –They’re light so I’d take a dozen or more, both for use and as possible trade material Ferro rods Backpack Down sleeping bag (Feathered Friends) Silnylon tent (Six Moons Lunar Duo or a Tarptent) as well as a couple of silnylon tarps Snow Peak Ti pots Leica binos Fish hooks Water purification tabs – For times when boiling isn’t practical MSR Dromedary bags First aid kit with plenty of penicillin Boots Weapons/Knives Sewing Kit/Needles Compasses Hygiene gear A multitool in case I had to work on the weapons Period: Clothing Possibles bag Wool blankets Flint and steel Sextant Gold coins Trade beads What are your priorities? Completing the mission. Avoiding firefights and preventing disease/injury. Not pushing myself too hard. How will you carry it? A good backpack - maybe a Dana Designs (Bozeman) Terraplane or Astralplane Overkill. I’d also look into Mystery Ranch or Kifaru. I’d raft or canoe whenever possible. What firearms will you take? I would have a custom O/U rifle built with two interchangeable barrel sets, one in 6.5x55mm and one in .22. I’d have A2 type sights on the 6.5mm barrel and a simple adjustable sight on the .22 barrel. I’d also pack a .22 DA revolver and a couple of speedloaders. How much ammo, accessories, etc.? 100-200 rounds of 6.5mm and 1000-2000 rounds of .22 depending on the weight of the rest of my gear. What edged tools do you take? I’d carry a 4-5 inch general purpose knife (probably by Ray Laconico), a 3 inch puukko and a GB Small Forest Axe. I’d also take a folding saw or a collapsible buck saw. I’d pack along a couple of the DMT Dia-fold sharpeners. I’d likely be tempted to bring a Leuku along as well. What navigational aids do you take? Two compasses and a sextant. I’d like small scale maps covering perhaps 25 miles on each side of my intended route as well as an atlas size map of the US/Canada in case I have to make a major detour. What do you think your odds are of successfully completing this journey? 50-50 at best. What do you do in the 30 days before you leave? I couldn’t begin to do all the prep I’d like in 30 days and I’d want more time to prepare. However, given the time frame I’d probably concentrate on using the sextant, basic edible plant ID, leather tanning, and learning to make soap and pemmican. You may take another person back with you, if you are willing to split the money with them 50-50. I’d take Mors Kochanski and alter my route; Portland ME to Montreal, then canoe the Great Lakes hugging the shoreline and up the Boundary Waters area. At some point we’d switch to walking and cross back into the US in MT. I’d then follow the Missouri a bit before heading south to the Columbia and the coast. Mors has vast knowledge of the boreal forest and native skills. In that time period the French fur trade had pushed fairly far west in Canada so I could take advantage of their routes and settlements. As an alternate I might bring along “Ishi” if I could find a way to communicate with him. You can buy and use a horse, or other beast of burden, to ride or as a pack animal. What animal do you choose? Is it for riding, or for packing? What do you add to your basic load out? Do you use an external carriage system, like a cart, wagon, travois, etc.? A mule for a pack animal but it would also be saddle broke just in case. If this allows me to up my load weight I’d bring wool blankets for use and trade as well as food such as beans and rice. I’d probably also bring some tobacco along for trading purposes. Everything would be packed on the mule. If I was going the Canadian route I would purchase the mule along the way. |
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