Professional Soldiers ® - Robed Muslim Clerics Kicked Off Flight

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- - Robed Muslim Clerics Kicked Off Flight (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33414)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRB (Post 391935)

Ruth,
"You are totally on target regarding the variations in the practice of Islam. Some of those variations arise from differences in custom and culture and some from differences in interpretation of both the source texts and the guidance of Islamic scholars. "......

Many of us here have spent years in the ME, I have been going since around '84 and my most recent trip ended in '07. Our experience is not simply academic.
I went thru the normal phases when first exposed to Islam: casual observance, seeing it thru my own religious experience, and listening to ME Muslims describe it.
I began to study Islam when the Muslim explanation of the religion and the example of its actual practice appeared to be at great odds. I am not speaking solely of the individual practice of Muslims but the edicts and rulings by some of the most learned clerics at Al Azhar University.
Islam, simply put, can be about anything you want it to be....as you stated there is no central authority and Islam is as much about the life of Muhammed (as the perfect man) as it is about the Quran.
You can find a cleric to sanction anything if you can relate it to the actions of Muhammed.
I disagree with you if you say that present day Muslim clerics see Muhammed as only in his time and place. I can refer to many gold standard (supposed proven Haddith) rulings citing your prophets actions as support for thought/action/activity today in a modern setting.
Please refer to many respected clerics praising UBL on his death and his activities as a modern example of what the prophet would expect a Muslim to do.
Are there peaceful and great Muslim people...yes, many, and I've had many associations with them in the ME.
However, I also believe that they 'cherry pick' the peaceful elements of Islam from Muhammeds early days (much of which is officially abbrogated by Islamic scholars) and choose to ignore much of the written elements within the Quran and ignore the more distasteful elements of Muhammeds life and example.
I suspect you are in that catagory and enjoy praying 5 times dailey and pray for goodness etc around you.
The problem I have with Islam is that the no one in authority will say that Muhammeds actions-rape/pillage/murder of captives etc IS WRONG...ergo you can underwrite anything if you shop for the right cleric. As has happened numerous times with assuming Jihadis's.
My final question....what is the ONLY perfect guarantee of achieving Islamic heaven. Therein lies the rub.

Sir, it seems you acknowledge that there is no single, authoritative version of Islam, but then you decide what the truly authentic version is, and it seems to be one that is obsessed with the life of the prophet.

Please, I encourage you to read surah Al-Rad with a tafseer of the chapter. That is Islam.

In the work I do I see new converts to Islam all the time. They come to Islam because of la ilaha il Allah. That's what's happening in America. I personally don’t see the value in either alienating or attacking us. If I "pray five times daily" for "goodness," as you say, instead of burning down fast food joints and praising al Qaeda, what is wrong with that?

We all could banter words back and forth with you all day but lets cut to the bottom line.

Statistically speaking - you stand a better chance of becoming a suicide bomber than anyone else here.

The question then becomes "Why is that?"

Answer than and you can start answering why Islam is the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruth nasrullah (Post 392090)

If I "pray five times daily" for "goodness," as you say, instead of burning down fast food joints and praising al Qaeda, what is wrong with that?

Because that's five times a day you are cursing Jews and Christians. That's why.

Because Islam REQUIRES parents to beat their children (age 10 and up) for not praying.
See Reliance of the Traveller, Para f1.1, Page 109.

Because Islam REQUIRES that those who neglect the prayer are EXECUTED.
See Reliance of the Traveller, Pages 101 and 109.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruth nasrullah (Post 392090)

I have not decided that, Islam is obsessed with the life of Muhammed and the SA funded Islamic outreach that has been going on for years now is a strict form of basic core beliefs spelled out in the Quran and highlighted by Muhammeds life.
There is a whole surah in the Quran called 'Spoils of War'..there is no surah called 'Peace'...
As Omar Abdel Rahman preached WHEN AT AL Azhar University..."Jihad and Killing are the head of Islam. If you take them out, you cut off the head of Islam"...
As you know he was the head of the org that killed Sadat and he TALKED the Egyptian Supreme Court into setting him free by using Quranic verses and the life of Muhammed as his examples. They could not argue his points as he is an Islamic scholar and backed up his murder with scripture.....Muslims recognise this killing, violent thread woven deeply into you religion....I did not make it up.
Again, what is the only guaranteed way to arrive in heaven written in the Quran?
And it appears by your response that the life of Muhammed, and his example, is unimportant in Islam...would you state that if it is the case.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish {Muslim}, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

-Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason)

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

As a Christian, I am amused by so many people arguing with Ruth about the problem with Islam being all the different interpretations (while others here try to force-feed their own interpretation as the ONLY interpretation used).

And here I thought Christianity had the market cornered on that....

So you're amused......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue (Post 392144)

So you're amused by the posters here? Anything worthwhile you want to add to this thread other than that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete (Post 392092)

QP Pete--

With utmost respect, I think it is a mistake to make the issue one of statistics. Not the least because doing so allows the counter argument that GWOT (how ever one may interpret the enemy) is unimportant because one is, statistically speaking, more likely to die in an automobile accident than to be killed by a terrorist. (A classmate of mine used this argument back in 2008 as part of the denouement of a decades' long friendship.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard (Post 392143)

...Islam exists and is at great odds with our society. The question of religion as a whole isn't relevant in this discourse with Ruth.
BTW, as an athiest you are at the bottom of the Islamic foodchain.

Quote:

And here I thought Christianity had the market cornered on that....

Not too concerned with what Christians, Buddhists, or Atheists do, etc…primarily because they do not have a developed doctrine, theology, and legal system that mandates warfare against unbelievers…

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigaba (Post 392153)

Sigaba:

With all due respect, that comparison fails to consider that a vehicular homicide is generally without malice, but terrorism is not.

The motorist wants to kill no one, and practically, can kill only a few, but a terrorist is limited only by the capability of his weapons. Given sufficiently large weapon(s), the terrorist would eagerly kill the maximum number of people possible. And the radical islamic ideology encourages them to do so, exhorting them to kill ALL non-believers, in this case, billions, by any means available.

Have you seen many Christian terrorists around, indiscriminately killing Muslims, even after 9/11?

TR

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Rock (Post 392157)

You may not be, but - based on historical precedence - others certainly do and would vehemently disagree with your position.

Richard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue (Post 392144)

Assuming Blu that you have read the Quran and Haddith I'd suggest some intercourse with a few Islamic scholars as you are seeing and interpreting thru your own Christian experience...I'd guess you have not read either.

That is not even close.
It is not about 'interpretation' or nuance in Islam. Either you accept what is written in the Quran or a Muslim does not.
Ruth has decided to ignore major tenets of her own Religion so that she can be comfortable within it, as many Muslims do.
Radical Muslims do not have a seperate Quran or testimony from the Companions they use the same documents. Radical Muslims embrace the total entity. Non radical Muslims cherry pick and ignore whole surah.
Ergo the war within Islam. To believe fully what Muhammed wrote and exemplified or to pick and choose only the 'comfortable' elements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRB (Post 392164)

To believe fully what Muhammed wrote...

Muhammed, like Jesus of Nazareth, wrote nothing.

Richard