That is the way D.C. functions. There is always a bus with your name on it out there...sometimes you see it coming, sometimes you don't. Usually it's the poor bastard who doesn't know the whole picture, he's just working in his little chunk of reality.

New on FOX News.

WTF??!!! SF Ties to Fast and Furious???
 

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/s...furious-ns.php


Sep-18-2011 16:36
A Story about the System

By Nancy Slaff The Alpine Sun
U.S. Special Forces at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, initially trained members of the Los Zeta’s Cartel - before they separated from the Mexican Army.

(SAN DIEGO) - Normal functioning humans, working for any government bureaucracy, often undergo a mystical transformation upon entering their workplace. They change into dysfunctional beings. “The system” makes this occur randomly or all the time.

Almost everything has been said and written about “Operation Gun Walker” or “Fast and Furious”; the latest government ‘snafu’ where government agents became creative in a way to “catch” cartel folks. Each day the story seems to grow and branch in a different direction.

Credit to this becoming public information is largely due The Salem-News and one of its investigative reporters, Tim King (Salem-News.com; July 14, 2011 – Report on Eric Holder & U.S. Weapons smuggling program to Mexico Making Rounds. A break in secrecy also belongs to a few brave ATF&E (Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) employees, knowing that their jobs are in jeopardy and/or their lives. Many of these men and women are dedicated law enforcement personnel who had to leave their personal beliefs at home because “the system” demands it.
Fast and Furious may have inadvertently caused the deaths of thousands of human beings – not just Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and Special Agent Jaime Zapata. One of the guns found at the scene of Agent Brian Terry’s body was a first indicator. A clue something had gone wrong in the system. Several high-ranking government folks claim no knowledge of the plan, but acknowledge that Cartels kill people; often with a gun. Notably, the origin of guns for all cartel killings is unknown, only that ATF&E-supplied-guns are in cartel hands.

The loss of U.S. agents in this program was apparently not considered up front even though allowing guns into the hands of cartels would almost surely result in the death of a human being; perhaps centered around other warring cartel members. Some ATF&E agents had already considered that Cartels and Border Patrol agents operate simultaneously along the same border and feared for fallout from “the program ”. “The system’s” guns were not manufactured in America, but sold in America. “The story” developed after federal agents were killed, not before that while picking up body parts on the streets of Nuevo Laredo or Juarez.

As information grows we learn that ATF&E agents would follow locally purchased guns to the buyers home. The guns would then be moved from that house to a car. Paid US informants or cartel personnel would move the guns to Mexico. But agents were advised to “stand down and surveil”. For more information read the report released through the Associated Press by Pauline Arrillaga’s “What led to Project Gunrunner?”
The degree of responsibility varies, but, to be expected, lower-level federal agents are being “thrown under the bus”. Those higher up the chain of events run fast and furious proving that amnesia can come and go at will, and others are expendable, just as those innocents who may have been killed with fast and furious guns. As the story grows, the multiplicity of fault grows with it.

According to news reports, for years the Mexican government has pleaded with the U.S. government to restrict the flow of guns into Mexico. It appeared the Mexican government blamed the American people. Certainly the American anti-gun lobby took that position. Some American gun shop owners, certainly in the Phoenix, Arizona and likely El Paso Texas area, sold multiple assault weapons to legitimate buyers at 20-40 assault weapons at a time. Now ATF&E has sent demand letters to firearms retailers in border states ordering they must begin reporting multiple sales of any semi-automatic rifle larger than .22 caliber and capable of accepting a detachable magazine. In response, the Firearms Industry has filed suit against ATF&E.
U.S. Special Forces at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, initially trained members of the Los Zeta’s Cartel, suspected of firing the shots at our agents. Although they were not cartel members at that time, this previous military training is a part of “the story”.

Guns used in Mexico’s cartel wars come from a variety of sources around the world – a part of our global economy that involves many players with a variety of agendas. Most certainly not all guns used in the killing of innocents belong to Fast and Furious. The gist of “the story” involves plans to actually place guns in the hand of cartels, and now no one knows for sure where all the unconfiscated guns are.

“The story” expands. According to KSAT.com (El Paso Texas) DPS authorities are gearing up for Cartel wars along the U.S. border. There is growing fear that cartel wars may disrupt Mexico’s election cycle in 2012. Drug Cartels now operating inside Texas and other states in North America are suspected of hoarding high-powered weapons that could become a factor in any coming revolution that – according to Texas authorities - will likely spread into U.S border states…and possibly beyond.

Meanwhile another case appears, in defense of a Sinaloa Cartel member. According to Diana Washington Valdez of The El Paso Times: Documents: Feds allegedly allowed Sinaloa cartel to move cocaine into U.S. for information. CIA agents purportedly allowed cocaine to be smuggled into the U.S by the Sinaloa cartel for information on other cartels
The general American public can’t do anything about “the system”. The system works in mysterious ways. Making deals for information goes back a very long time. But now, one allows for guns to be walked out of the United States. Then it likely allows drugs to be walked into the United States. “The system” convolutes where the blame truly lies…but is a fact of life. And that’s the story. For now anyway.

U.S. Special Forces at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, initially trained members of the Los Zeta’s Cartel, suspected of firing the shots at our agents./Quote/LongWire.

I totally agree with LW,WTF is going on?.......:confused: Anyone know if this is really true?.......:eek: If not,than that reporter should be taken to task for not validating her sources............:mad:

Big Teddy :munchin

I believe the Los Zetas thing has been discussed on this board before, and it is likely that the media is telling only a portion of the facts to divert attention from the real problems.

Trust me, we do not just "decide" to train anyone.

We are placed under orders to do so, by our civilian leadership.

Over the years, I believe we have trained most of our enemies and former enemies.

Iranians, Nicaraguans, Panamanians, Venezualans, Colombians, Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis, etc., etc.

TR

A small number of Mexican service members who trained at FBNC as part of an OVERT program later left the Mexican military and went to work for the cartels. It happens. We did not train cartel members and the Mexican military can hardly control what former members do with their training. Every military in the world suffers similar problems with ex-soldiers. By suggesting the link, the reporter is being disingenuous. Reportorial ethics is a much greater oxymoron than military intelligence ever has been. I have spoken with several Mexican officers about the issue in years past; trust me when I say they are far more upset about the "betrayal" than we will ever be.

Concur :D:D:D

Big Teddy :munchin

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...unner-scandal/

This just gets worse and worse. IF true, unf------ believable!

FWIW, copies of an email (intending to skewer a whistleblower) but, instead, resulting in as much as BATF admitting that “walking” guns was not unknown to high ranking folks at BATF - below.

In light of this email discovery (if true) - it is interesting to go back and review the tapes posted in the link where SA Newell test-a-lies, uh, I mean testifies before the House Oversight Committee, suggesting that he/BATF NEVER, NEVER allowed guns to walk…probably thinking to himself that those guns in question were driven across the border -- hell -- some might have even watched them being driven -- but they NEVER, NEVER, walk.

From the article:

A Gun Rights Examiner/Sipsey Street Irregulars exclusive
Examined objectively, Rubenstein admitted guns were purposely allowed to walk, that walking guns to a foreign country must be hidden from the public, and that if the Mexicans found out about it, cooperative law enforcement efforts would be jeopardized.

A just-uncovered January 5, 2011 email to former Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Acting Director Kenneth Melson from Stephen R. Rubenstein, Chief Counsel, ATF, responded to a request by Melson for information regarding allegations on whistleblower website CleanUpATF that walked guns were linked to the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, and indicated this was a violation of ATF Orders and Standards of Conduct.

Copies of the email and Melson’s reply are posted in this correspondent's Scribd account and included in the sidebar slideshow accompanying this article.

Snip from the email:

“The disclosure of this information has a potential deleterious effect on ATF's undercover operations,” Rubenstien continued. “In that regard, suspects may alter their behavior if they know that law enforcement is allowing certain firearms to 'walk' into Mexico. In addition, public knowledge of this type of operation potentially places informants and undercover agents in jeopardy. Finally, public disclosure of such information could ATF's working relationship with Mexico.”

Link below to Sipsey Street Irregulars and David Codrea’s work and copy of email:

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogsp...f-counsel.html

I watched the ATF testimony before Rep Issa's committee and I have to say that Bill Newell, formerly SAC in Phoenix and now reassigned out of harm's way in DC, is one of the true villians in this matter. He can find more ways to parse a phrase and protect his butt.

When asked several times what he would do differently today, he said he would "do more risk assessment".

Newell is a real piece of work and is the kind of guy who rises to the top in a ridged, top-to-down, organization. The video linked below is more than 4 hours but it is worth watching. Newell's prepared testimony begins at 37:30 and at 1:06:30 Rep Burton questions him.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/300716-1

Thank you for that link 219Seminole.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/300716-1

I half listened to part of the testimony (again) for approx. 2 hrs in between morning meetings and lunch today.

While the entire keystone cop segment starring SA Newell is “riveting” - if time is limited - about 30 minutes of particular note are identified below - and should be sufficient for one to develop a sense of how the testimony proceeded.

1. When you watch the tapes and see Newell on display - cloaked with the imprimatur of the BATF - ask yourself - did he appear forthright and direct - or did he exhibit the characteristics of one trying HARD to obfuscate the truth?

Then,

2. Given the email disclosure yesterday - which IMO is tantamount to acknowledging that guns did “walk” and high level folks knew of and used the term “walk” w/r/t guns - now consider this information in light of Newell’s testimony…it's like the middle man in the illegal gun deal saying that while they might have committed the overt acts sufficient for the crime - they never intended or considered themselves to be a “straw…”

1:18-1:27 SA Newell - stonewalling.

1:28:04 a minute or so - Lorren Leadmon, BATF Intelligence Operations Specialist, BATF…his take on situation is that agents walked away from trafficked guns.

1:30 Rep Trey Gowdy entire approx. 5 minute questioning of Newell on “straw purchasers.”

1:43:16 and on for a few minutes - Testimony of Carlos Canino – BATF acting representative to Mexico…”…inconceivable to follow known gun traffickers and walk away…”

1:55:42 and for approx. 5 minutes - ISSA questioning Newell… “…you’ve been here as a paid nonanswerer…” ”you’re entitled to your opinion not to your facts…”

LINK to story

U.S. Government Bought and Sold Weapons During 'Fast and Furious,' Documents Show
By William Lajeunesse
Published September 26, 2011 | FoxNews.com

Not only did U.S. officials approve, allow and assist in the sale of more than 2,000 guns to the Sinaloa cartel -- the federal government used taxpayer money to buy semi-automatic weapons, sold them to criminals and then watched as the guns disappeared.

This disclosure, revealed in documents obtained by Fox News, could undermine the Department of Justice's previous defense that Operation Fast and Furious was a "botched" operation where agents simply "lost track" of weapons as they were transferred from one illegal buyer to another. Instead, it heightens the culpability of the federal government as Mexico, according to sources, has opened two criminal investigations into the operation that flooded their country with illegal weapons.

Operation Fast and Furious began in October 2009. In it, federal agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives encouraged guns stores to sell weapons to an arms smuggling gang, then watched as the guns crossed the border and were used in crimes. Each month, the agency allowed hundreds of guns to go south, despite opposition from some agents.
All told, the gang spent more than $1.25 million for the illegal guns.

In June 2010, however, the ATF dramatically upped the ante, making the U.S. government the actual "seller" of guns.

According to documents obtained by Fox News, Agent John Dodson was ordered to buy six semi-automatic Draco pistols -- two of those were purchased at the Lone Wolf gun store in Peoria, Ariz. An unusual sale, Dodson was sent to the store with a letter of approval from David Voth, an ATF group supervisor.

Dodson then sold the weapons to known illegal buyers, while fellow agents watched from their cars nearby.

This was not a "buy-bust" or a sting operation, where police sell to a buyer and then arrest them immediately afterward. In this case, agents were "ordered" to let the sale go through and follow the weapons to a stash house.

According to sources directly involved in the case, Dodson felt strongly that the weapons should not be abandoned and the stash house should remain under 24-hour surveillance. However, Voth disagreed and ordered the surveillance team to return to the office. Dodson refused, and for six days in the desert heat kept the house under watch, defying direct orders from Voth.

A week later, a second vehicle showed up to transfer the weapons. Dodson called for an interdiction team to move in, make the arrest and seize the weapons. Voth refused and the guns disappeared with no surveillance.

According to a story posted Sunday on a website dedicated to covering Fast and Furious, Voth gave Dodson the assignment to "dirty him up," since Dodson had become the most vocal critic of the operation.

"I think Dodson demanded the letter from Voth to cover both himself and the FFL (Federal Firearm Licensee). He didn't want to be hung out to dry by Voth," a source told the website "Sipsey Street Irregulars."

Subsequent to this undercover operation, sources told Sipsey: "Dodson just about came apart all over them (his supervisors). In a 'screaming match' that was heard throughout the Phoenix office by many employees, Dodson yelled at Voth and Assistant Special Agent in Charge George Gillett, 'Why not just go direct and empty out the (ATF) arms room?" (to the cartels), or words to that effect.'

After the confrontation, ATF managers transferred Dodson to a more menial job. Months later, after the death of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry, Dodson blew the whistle and went public about the federal government's gunrunning operation.
------------
Couple of footnotes, in the interest of being fair & balanced, dontcha know:

• The "documents obtained by Fox News" are, of themselves, nothing new. That ATF leadership explicitly ordered off surveillance in progress of straw-bought guns is long known from the earliest disclosures. But that a mainstream outlet is trying to peddle faster to keep up with this scandal is a good thing.
• SSI is not "dedicated to covering Fast and Furious" - it just happens to be a monster issue that's right in the wheelhouse of their core mission. And kudos to Fox for actually mentioning the website (and thereby the work done by David Codrea and Mike Vanderboergh) to begin with - that almost never happens. SSI's coverage in this area has been somewhat larger of a thorn to the administration and has probably provoked more than one witch hunt. The access that must be had by people who freely furnish info to SSI probably drives them nuts on the order of a Sarah Palin mania. I'm sure now that, in the DoJ, it only takes a toggle switch to add another level to the conspiracy of 'under-performing malcontents interacting with the blogosphere'. Adding Fox News is a default layer for them so that's easy. The water's fine, Fox; keep paddling, you're in good company.
  

Eventually, this will be traced to the very top. I firmly believe Holder was fully in the loop, as well as BHO. There is no way a regional office could give approval of an operation that was so clearly against ATF regs and NFA laws.