Lying about MRI on MEPS Physical [Archive]

Nuke

01-26-2006, 18:05

The Reaper

01-26-2006, 18:15

I've had an MRI in the past and one of the questions on the MEPS form is have you ever had an MRI. My recruiters is telling me to put "NO" even though I have. He said that putting "YES" will automatically disqualify me for 18X or any "good" job in the military. On top of that he says the military will never know anyway. This doesn't seem technically or morally right IMHO.

The MRI's were done on my hamstring and knee. I got the one on my hamstring because I slightly pulled it. The knee I got done because I just wanted to make sure I didn't do anything to it when I hurt the hamstring. Someone recommended I do it. It only cost me $20 to get it done so why not. Will this disqualify me?!?!?!?

I'd really appreciate your insight into this. I already know I'm going to put "YES." I just want to know if it's going to be a waste of my time or what I can do to help me get in.

V/R Ray

Ray:

Your recruiter is a sorry, unethical POS who wants to make his numbers with the minimum effort.

Do not lie on your application. They Army may pull your medical records from the clinic or hospital and if they see that you signed the consent forms for an MRI, well, you are going to have some 'splaining to do.

Anyone who is advised by their recruiter to lie or falsify applications or records should know that is immoral, unethical and illegal. The Army may go after the recruiter eventually, but you will be the one who pays the initial price for it.

TR

jatx

01-26-2006, 18:25

When you go to MEPS, a physician will interview you about all of your answers on the medical history. For example, I had bronchitis when I went and I therefore checked "yes" to chronic cough. The Doc asked me how long I'd been sick, then noted on the last page that my cough was "not chronic", and therefore not a disqualifying condition. I would venture a guess that your MRI will be treated similarly - he'll ask you about the context and result, then sign off on it (assuming the facts you've given here). In some other cases, MEPS may request documentation of your treatment for a condition and/or letters from multiple physicians before declaring you fit for service. It is not a big deal and, while it will be time consuming and frustrating, obtaining a med waiver is not an insurmountable obstacle.

You seem to have already worked out what your approach will be, but I'll just add that being told by a recruiter to falsify your medical history is a nearly universal experience. At the very least, you should research what conditions or procedures are waiverable and which are not. The applicable publication is AR 40-501 Standards of Medical Fitness. It is easily found with Google.

Good luck and don't sweat it.

Bravo1-3

01-26-2006, 19:13

Nuke:

Check YES and bring the records to prove that you are 100%. If the MRI was done as a precautionary measure, then it should not be a big deal.

Lying on any application you fill out, none-the-less one that will result in at least a Secret if not a Top Secret Clearance is an absolute no-no. The last thing in the world you want is to be denied a clearance due to dishonesty of any sort.

jon448

01-26-2006, 19:28

Ray-
As all the BTDTs are saying, check Yes and then explain to the Doc at MEPS, make sure you have all of the paperwork with you. One person who went from my recruiting station when I went didn't have his paperwork and got DQed because of it.

Nuke

01-26-2006, 20:33

There isn't a doubt that I'm going to mark yes. As a matter of fact it's already been marked. I hold myself to pretty high standard on that stuff. If a man's word can't be trusted, what good is he!

I asked the recruiter what information I needed to take with me to show that it wasn't an issue and he said to just do both him and myself a favor and just mark "NO". He doesn't even want to work with me if I mark otherwise. I guess I'm not worth his time.:p I don't get these people.

What paperwork should I take? I have the one set of MRI's and a note from the doc saying that I'm good to go. I guess I'll get the other set and a note from that doc as well.

Can you just show up at MEPS on your own? This is the second recruiter I've tried to work with. Where do they get these people????

I really appreciate the help. I love this forum!

The Reaper

01-26-2006, 20:39

You might consider finding out who the Recruiting Station or unit commander or NCOIC is and dealing with them.

I do not believe that you can walk into a MEPS and enlist or process without the recruiter's paperwork.

We need a recruiter here to answer these questions.

Anyone know a good one?

TR

NousDefionsDoc

01-26-2006, 21:14

Don't lie. Get another recruiter.

Stiletto11

01-26-2006, 21:26

I just came in after a 12 year break in service with hardware in my knee and prior to even going to MEPPs I had to provide XRays and a history before I could even go for the MEPPS Physical. After all the due diligence I had a picket fence on PUHLES except for my hearing which was a 2. My knee which was the subject of the due diligence was rated a 1. Twelve years on jump status will take a toll as will any athletic endeavor. The good news is with todays modern medicine what might have been a DQ years ago is not today. Ruck Up:D

FNU_LNU

01-27-2006, 07:42

I'll echo jatx's comment that this seems to happen frequently. My NG recruiter told me the same thing at our first meeting (after an intolerable amount of time trying to convince me just how much money I could make by signing up). In his words, checking yes to anything would screw up my application and it was better to just check no. I wasn't buying it.

When you go to MEPS, a physician will interview you about all of your answers on the medical history. For example, I had bronchitis when I went and I therefore checked "yes" to chronic cough. The Doc asked me how long I'd been sick, then noted on the last page that my cough was "not chronic", and therefore not a disqualifying condition. I would venture a guess that your MRI will be treated similarly - he'll ask you about the context and result, then sign off on it (assuming the facts you've given here). In some other cases, MEPS may request documentation of your treatment for a condition and/or letters from multiple physicians before declaring you fit for service. It is not a big deal and, while it will be time consuming and frustrating, obtaining a med waiver is not an insurmountable obstacle.

You seem to have already worked out what your approach will be, but I'll just add that being told by a recruiter to falsify your medical history is a nearly universal experience. At the very least, you should research what conditions or procedures are waiverable and which are not. The applicable publication is AR 40-501 Standards of Medical Fitness. It is easily found with Google.

Good luck and don't sweat it.

Kyobanim

01-27-2006, 08:54

Well, while we're telling stories on our recruiters . . .

When I went to sign up with 19th in Colorado, (20 years ago), I told the recruiter I was color blind. He gave me a colorblindness test chart and said memorize this.

And no, I didn't. At the time all it did was limit my MOS choices.

Eagle5US

01-27-2006, 09:00

What everyone else said...
Your integrity is the only thing that you must freely choose to give up. And once it is gone...well, it's gone. Good on ya for wanting to do te right thing. Your situation regarding the moral conduct of the recruiting command is, unfortunately, not at all uncommon.

Eagle

Detcord

01-29-2006, 04:42

Not to be redundant, but fire your recruiter and find another one. Just go to another recruiting office in a different part of town or even a different city and start over again.

Recruiting duty is something most people don't really want to do, that's why the military more or less "forces" certain indivudals to go to recruiting school and become recruiters. Recruiting duty is often dreaded, especially if the soldier came from action-oriented or combat-related MOS's.

Additionally, the information provided to someone sitting in a recruiting office can often have a wide range of variability (i.e. "truth"). Let your gut instinct and moral compass be your guides...

Good luck with another recruiter and getting the training you are looking for.

mffjm8509

01-31-2006, 13:03

I'm going through this with my son right now. He's trying to get an Option 40 (Ranger) contract. He had surgery last year to repair torn ligaments in his shoulder. According to the AR covering medical fitness the remaining hardware disqualifies him for Airborne/Ranger/SF contracts. We are submitting all of the documentation for his surgery PRIOR to going to MEPS for his physical as well as letters from his Dr and coaches. Hopefully he'll be cleared. Hell he's played another year of football and wrestling post-surgery.

TRs right, we need a recruiter on here.......

mp

Weazle23

01-31-2006, 17:08

I recently graduated from Recruiter School but have yet to report to my recruiting assignment so I can offer no real world experience yet, except for when I went through MEPS just over 2 years ago.

I sprained my knee and had an MRI to see if I needed surgery. Thankfully I didn't need to go under the knife and was walking/running with no problem about a month later. The MEPS doc asked about it during the Airborne physical and was satisfied with the truth. He made a note that I had recovered in 30 days and that was the end of it. But just because I didn't need to show any paper work, doesn't mean you'll have it that easy, so I'd advise if you have it, bring it.

Desert Fox

01-31-2006, 18:12

Like they say in the ads "don`t pay for 2 years."
A note: here in the Canadian Military, to lie or ''forget'' to say medical informations can lead to the lost of a disability pension. I've seen somebody being posted at Saint-Toton-des-Reculés (=nickname for a lost canadian base in the middle of nowhere), because after a few years they found he lied about his medical past: he was remustered in another trade (which he didnt decide) and another base (didnt decide either).

Nuke

02-01-2006, 15:54

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/falsestatements.htm

Here is a VERY GOOD writeup about this subject. I just hope I don't get some idiot at MEPS that just disqualifies me because I do the right thing. That will just prove them right. I did pull my hamstring pretty good but I'm good to go now. It's been over 2 years and I haven't had any problems. I run, ruck, and swim all the time so I think I'm gtg. We'll see next Friday I guess.

Look at it this way. If I do hurt it again I'm already having a bad day. A court martial would not be a nice addition to it.

jatx

02-01-2006, 16:08

Great link, Nuke. Good luck and don't worry about it too much. Worst case scenario is you come back here in a couple of months and tell all the other hopefuls how you went about getting your med waiver. :lifter

Firebeef

02-01-2006, 17:14

I was a Recruiter. I was drafted, kicking and screaming in 1984. It put a hold on my SF packet which was submitted at the time...and that is a whole different story, but bottom line is I survived USARECtum...as we lovingly called the command. I survived, made it into SF (after being sidebarred to Desert Storm).....like I said, another story, best told over several beers and shots of JD or Slivovitz.

Back to the young man's question. Much has been in the press recently about how "suddenly" recruiters are having trouble making mission (their "quota's" as the press puts it). Lemme let you in on a little secret.....makin mission has always been difficult. I was shot at in the station one night with a pellet gun, the same week we bombed Libya. The pressure to make mission is enormous. From talkin to the local recruiters in my town, it seems the majority are no longer command selected (the nice way of sayin"cm'ere mo f%$#er....you're a Recruiter now!!) so these are guys wanting an easier way, and probably have no intention of headin back downrange. They have no expectations of ever serving withany of their applicants in the future.Surely there are some ethical Recruiters, many I am sure....but as in anything....be vewwwy caweful!!

Do not lie on your application. It's wrong, you will give your integrity away, and if you are found out later it will be a hard fall. The step's you are taking are exactly what I would do. Take as much documentation about the procedure and more specifically the rehab that you can assemble.

Give that slimey soundin recruiter one more chance...and if he say's he won't work with you unless you mark NO....get the Company Commander's and the Battalion Commander's name right then and there. It should be posted obviously in the recruiting station. If not, the Battalion HQ is usually co located in the same city that the MEPS is in, and look it up in the phone book. Call them immediatley after this recruiter has told you what to mark on your DD 4, and if they sound like they are in on it....tell them you are ready to go to the local press....and MEAN it! Perservere Lad. Be honest and give it your best shot. If all you say is true I can't imagine the Doc will DQ you, but even if he does you can appeal it, try for a waiver, but at least you will know you did the right thing.

Good luck and NEVER QUIT!!

De Opresso Liber

aaron

02-05-2006, 02:37

I had broken my wrist a long time ago, and I got a doctor's note and got cleared at MEPS... however, on the paperwork, I couldn't remember exactly when it happened so the date I put down was around 3 years off... can I be disqualified for secret clearance and/or discharged because the date doesn't match my doctor's records?

along the same lines- at MEPS they asked me about tickets in my past... I wasn't sure if they were asking about unpaid parking tickets/speeding tickets or if they were asking in general if I'd received any tickets at all. I said "no" because I didn't want to be sent home, but I have had parking tickets AND speeding tickets (I've paid/taken care of them all)... can this get me disqualified as well?

Thank you,

Aaron

The Reaper

02-05-2006, 09:14

Aaron:

I would say that you are probably okay, but that you are showing signs of being a relative moralist, or someone who does not pay attention to the question.

If you do not understand, you need to start asking.

Someone your age who can't remember significant events is going to have real problems as an SF soldier.

Good luck.

TR

ggamecrazy

02-05-2006, 13:51

That's starnge, Ive had MRI's but I don't remember them asking me that........Stange....

airbornefox

02-05-2006, 14:07

I've had alot of "disqualifying" medical problems during my short time in the military. I tore my ACL playing college football and had surgery and noted that on my Airborne physical. Cadet Command said I was not qualified for a commission. I also had benign hematuria (blood in urine) in every UA I ever took. Bottom line is that I had all of these "conditions" but I had done all the tests required and got all the letters from my docs and have documentation explaining each problem. Also I have received waivers for these conditions when I did a flight physical. Everytime I go for a physical I take along all of my documentation for the doc to look over and I haven't had any problems.

Best advice I could give you is to be honest... have a letter from the doc stating what happened and your current prognosis and keep them all in a fire proof box for whenever you need it.

Blue Skies!

SSG Lockert

02-07-2006, 11:52

SSG Lockert

02-07-2006, 11:54

ALSO, THE GUY ABOVE IS CORRECT, THE FORM YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS A 2807-2 MEDICAL PRESCREEN. THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT MRI'S

SSG Lockert

02-07-2006, 11:59

ONE MORE THING GUYS. THE PEOPLE AT MEPS DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR PAST. THEY TELL YOU THEY DO ONLY TO SCARE YOU INTO TELLING THEM SOMETHING. DO YOU REALLY BELEIVE THAT THEY HAVE TIME TO GO GET MEDICAL RECORDS ON EVERY PERSON THAT COMES THROUGH THERE? ALL I AM SAYING IS, BE HONEST BUT DON'T LET SOME PETTY CRAP THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM STAND IN THE WAY OF YOUR DREAMS.

Just because some people do it and do not get caught does not mean that you will get away with it.:confused:

TR

Nuke

02-07-2006, 15:43

Lately I’ve been working with the company commander like TR suggested. I actually just sat down to discuss my problems with lying and he suggested the change before I could so it worked out. He's a good guy and was fine with sending my medical stuff down ahead of time. The response we got today was that I was gtg for the physical and they didn't even ask for any additional medical records. All my recruiter sent them was my MRI reports.

So far it looks like doing the right thing is working out for me. My physical is set for Friday.

The question I’ll have to answer at MEPS (as I understand it) that gets me is #23 on the dd-2807-1 form. “Have you ever had an illness or injury other than those already noted.”

Sgt_Metz

02-09-2006, 11:23

The question I’ll have to answer at MEPS (as I understand it) that gets me is #23 on the dd-2807-1 form. “Have you ever had an illness or injury other than those already noted.”

I've always answered this with "Just the occasional common cold/flu."

Rehhan

02-09-2006, 21:15

I had a similar problem just before meps. A few years back I'd had a bad concussion and had a subsequent MRI. About a week before going to MEPS I realized that I hadn't told my recruiter about it, it had simply slipped my mind. After telling him he told me that I just shouldn't say anything to the doctors at MEPS and I'd be fine. When I went down there I told them anyways, even though I didn't have any of the records on it. They just asked me a few questions about it and cleared me and I left with a clear conscious and an 18x contract.

I also had a friend go in last year as an infantryman after he'd had several problems with his knees. He actually dislocated his right knee while duckwalking at MEPS. The doctors there said he could never go in, but after surgery and having the meps doctors talk to his personal doctor he got in, went infantry and to airborne. Just tell them the truth and things should work themselves out.

Nuke

02-10-2006, 23:29

So today was the day I found out if refusing to lie about my medical stuff was going to keep me from an 18x contract. I'm happy to say that I answered every question 100% honest and they approved me without hesitation. I took all my MRI and medical reports just incase but they were satisfied with just talking about it. The doc asked a few good questions but they were all very reasonable. Also, I could see him keeping a good eye on me during the duck walks and other drills but expected nothing less. That is his job after all.

I'm glad I could do this with a clear conscious and that I found a recruiter willing to put up with me being a pain in the butt about it. Now I can add my ship date to the 18x and Rep63s thread. :D

Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions.

NousDefionsDoc

02-11-2006, 07:09

Congratulations. Now go do PT.

Eagle5US

02-11-2006, 10:59

BRAVO 1-3 IS ALL OVER IT. I AM AN SF RECRUITER AND DEAL WITH THESE THINGS ALL THE TIME. IF YOU BRING THE DOCUMENTATION THERE SHOULD BE NO PROBLEM. I YOU DO NOT, THE DOCTOR WILL DEFINITLY TEMP DISQUALIFY YOU.
Dude...
Undo your cap lock. It hurts my eyes.

Nuke...

Step 1 complete, start working on steps 2 thru 1563.
Short term goals in focus with your final destination in view. And do what NDD said as often as possible. You'll need it.

Best of luck.

Eagle

cooter

02-27-2009, 13:59

My questions regard the MEPS and SF physical. I, like everyone aparently, was told to lie on the MEPS physical by my recruiter. However I figured both that my recruiter was trying to get his numbers up and that the army would eventually figure out anything I had so I decided to tell the truth. I checked no for everything except a fracture I had in my arm when I was young, but one question was bothering me. It was: have you had chronic cough? I checked no, but I was not sure because I have contracted bronchitis once or twice a year (almost always lasting for a week or less) every year since I was 12 when I had contracted like 8 colds in one winter. I have not taken medication for it except for once, and it always healed, which means they were all acute. However, because it happens every year I was worried about the chronic indications so I went to my doctor yesterday... and after a number of tests including a breathing test he said it is not chronic cough or chronic bronchitis or asthma, I just GET acute bronchitis once...occasionally twice a year for about a week. I understand that for SF you have to take another physical and it is more demanding, so what are the realities of my condition? Assuming I get recruited could it proclude me from attempting SF even though I am a go for basic training? If not, would I be recycled out of Q if during it I contracted bronchitis? Thanks for any help you guys can offer.

Eagle5US

02-27-2009, 15:08

You're fine.
Drive on...good luck.

Eagle

drhawk

04-08-2009, 19:23

This is about my 19 yr. old son who enlisted and after he finished with it all the very last thing was have you ever been hospitalized which he was honest and said for 1 night 10 yrs ago for an mri....but it was all good....but not according to meps.....he was granted a waiver and the mep doc told him he only needed to do an mri with them and now it's been over 2 months and not a word from them.

My son had a contract for "Airborne Rangers" all he had left to do was swear in and now he can't even get an appt for the MRI as they requested....heck he' an amatuer boxer and has been boxing for about 4 yrs. I guess by now if there was something wrong with him it would of came up by now......he's physicaly and mentaly fit and had his civilian doctor write a letter stating he's fine but that wasn't good enough. His recruiter stated that the unit commander is handling this personaly what ever that means.

My question here !!! does anyone have some good advise on what game is being played here or is this a comon thing hurry up and wait and if it even happens. Any suggestions would be helpful !!!!!!!

Surgicalcric

04-08-2009, 19:55

My first suggestion is for you to read the PM I sent and follow it to the T.

Secondly, MEPS does sometimes require follow up tests (which tests depend on the specific type of waiver requested.) Sometimes the wait will test your patience. This is nothing new.

What injury did he require an MRI for?

KiloNovember

04-08-2009, 23:26

Unnecessary.

rltipton

04-09-2009, 07:25

If you have any problems with your recruiter, try contacting the SF Recruiting Bn. I'm not up to speed on the new system, but back in the day if anyone was hindering an SF candidate's application process in any way, a call to 432-1818 would get it fixed asap.

Don't lie on your application. If you do you will surely regret it. If you are honest and you don't get it then that's just life and it sucks sometimes, but that it a hell of a lot better than getting cut for an honor violation when you are 1/2 way through the Q course.

Good luck. Train hard. Be safe.

Red Finch

05-27-2009, 08:09

If isolated MRIs and broken bones have presented trouble for candidates, what effect would childhood leukemia with many illnesses (like fevers, bacterial infections) associated with a breakdown of immune system functionality have (including appendicitis (resolved by appendectomy before it burst). My doctor would back the claim that all this has since resolved, however if similar notes were refused such as in the case of the drhawk's son (see above) I can imagine the trouble my medical file would cause. I'm not asking for any specific answers, as I understand that none can be given, and I have already been indicated whom to talk to. However reading this thread has embedded more doubt in my mind about a decision I hope to make relatively soon, and unlike finding the resolve to run that extra mile, this one is somewhat out of my hands.

HardRoad

05-27-2009, 09:13

Red Finch,
All you can do is try - but realistically, I think its a long shot.

The regulation that governs medical qualifications for enlistment (and officer accessions) is AR 40-501. Your best bet would probably be to google it and download a copy, and have your physician read chapter 2 (and paragraph 5-3, if you're interested in SF as a career option.) Your physician can then determine what supporting documentation is appropriate to provide to MEPS (in addition to your complete medical records, of course.) Sometimes input from your physician matters to the MEPS doc, sometimes it doesn't.

Recurrent leukopenia (low white blood cell count) is disqualifying, and that condition was almost certainly present during your illness. You can apply for a waiver, which is a lengthy process. The military doesn't want to take the chance on you becoming a liability in training or on deployment, and unless there's a very high likelyhood you won't have any problems in the future, they probably won't grant the waiver.

To be honest, I don't think you'll get in, but I'm not a recruiter or a MEPS doctor, so I could be wrong. If you want to serve, I recommend that you pull your medical records together, review them with your personal physician, have your doctor provide whatever additional input he feels is appropriate, and then take the MEPS physical and see what happens. If you get permanently disqualified, you can ask your recruiter to help you with the waiver process, but be prepared for it to take a while. It won't cost you anything but time to try.

If you don't get in, at least you gave it your best shot, which, in my opinion, puts you head and shoulders above most of your peers.

Best of luck however it turns out.

The Reaper

05-27-2009, 12:00

Red Finch

05-27-2009, 13:14

I appreciate the answers although honestly my post was more of an immediate response to what I had just read than a query. In fact, I've got my game plan all laid out: 1) Score highly on ALL other criteria (ASVAB, APFT etc), 2) Collect all relevant medical documentation along with as many medical opinions as doctors I've had over the years, and be prepared to defend them as if I was in court. 3) Keep other options available in the case I am given an official "no".
I've certainly read through all the regulation and members of this site have kindly provided me with further contact information and the likes. Thank you.

GatorBuck

02-24-2010, 02:03

I recently started the recruiting process for 18x. No prior service. I just fininshed the pre-screening questionaire for the recruiter. I have had an mri on my knee after a rugby injury. Also, at 16 I had a cyst drained. It did not require stitches, nor did it have any health reprecusions post recovery (2 months). However, I am not asking for medical advise. When I informed my recruiter about these incidents he told me not to list them on the questionaire. He claimed it would incur unnecessary paperwork and that it wouldn't be an issue in the form of disqualification from 18x. However, after searching this site and finding this thread I realise otherwise. I believe that he has already submitted the pre-screen as is without the medical information.

Will this be an issue? I see that it most probably is. However, is there any advice on how I should proceed?

Thank you for your time.

lksteve

02-24-2010, 09:18

Will this be an issue? I see that it most probably is. However, is there any advice on how I should proceed?The truth is not an issue...if additional paperwork is required, so be it...

GatorBuck

02-24-2010, 14:39

Thanks for the advice.

jb977

02-27-2010, 05:03

What form do they ask about MRIs on. I've already been to MEPS and I don't recall anything about MRIs. I looked at DD forms 2807-1, 2807-2 and 2808. I've had an MRI before (I was getting exertion headaches for about a week whenever I tried to work out) but was never asked anything about it. I hope I'm just being paranoid but I don't want anything to come back and bite me. I can only assume I, mistakenly, marked "no" for MRIs and possibly headaches since they didn't ask. They asked me about every other detail I know I said yes to (scars, emergency room visits, LASIK, etc).

I don't want you guys to think I'm looking for someone to hold my hand and tell me it's going to be ok, or, I'm lacking integrity. I'm pretty confident in my attention to detail. I just want to see the form to refresh my memory.