View Full Version : Army drill sergeants suspended in sex assault probe...
SouthernDZ
08-23-2017, 08:53
I sense a new round of touchy-feely briefings for the innocent on the way.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A number of U.S. Army drill sergeants at Fort Benning, Georgia, have been temporarily suspended from their duties following allegations of sexual misconduct with trainees, the Army base said on Wednesday.
Investigators looking into an initial sexual assault allegation by a female trainee against a drill sergeant at the fort uncovered other incidents of alleged sexual misconduct, prompting a wider investigation, the base said in a statement.
A spokesman declined to say how many drill sergeants had been suspended as part of the investigation, but the statement indicated it was more than one.
Cracking down on sexual assault has been a priority for several years in the U.S. military, which reported in May that anonymous surveys in 2016 found that 14,900 service members experience some kind of kind of sexual assault in 2016, from groping to rape. That was down from 20,300 in 2014, according to the surveys, which are conducted every two years.
At the same time, the number of victims actually willing to report incidents of sexual assault reached a record 6,172 cases in 2016. Officials see willingness of victims to come forward and report sexual assault as a positive sign that people believe their complaints will be dealt with seriously.
The sexual misconduct investigation at Fort Benning is being conducted by the Army's Criminal Investigation Command in cooperation with the base's Maneuver Center of Excellence, the statement said.
"There is no place for sexual harassment or sexual assault in our Army," it said. Counseling, legal and medical services had been made available to the trainees involved in the alleged incidents, it added.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-army-sexcrimes-idUSKCN1B31MC
Streck-Fu
08-23-2017, 09:50
Officials see willingness of victims to come forward and report sexual assault as a positive sign that people believe their complaints will be dealt with seriously.
Or it will act as a safety net if they are not passing.
Or it will act as a safety net if they are not passing.
Am confused sir,
So if what you are advising is true, then the whole thing of reporting alleged sexual misconduct at this base is akin to a," dog and pony show?":confused:
Am not military, so I honestly do not know...but for sure if someone is making this up just to get ahead, it is indeed abhorrent and shameful to drag good Drill Sergeants names through the mud, IMHO.
Interesting...
Holly
The problem is one of metrics: the Army (and Congress) measures the effectiveness of our SHARP and anti-bullying programs by the number of allegations filed. If the numbers increase, the program is a success. If they decrease, the program is NOT succeeding and we need to implement systems wherein females increase their complaints. It doesn't take an in-flight missile repair technician to think this through and see what the outcome becomes. There is EVERY effort at fomenting an increase in complaints despite implementing an appropriate filtering device.
Concomitant to that is the law we implemented wherein lower-level commanders are prohibited from investigating/dismissing these allegations anymore - they go directly to CID for investigation. Commanders are automatically referring these allegations to trial or adverse action wherein not too long ago they would investigate and make the call. We've tied their hands now. They routinely shuffle ALL cases into the "substantiated" category and push for judicial resolution despite the veracity of the claim. If they don't, some Congress-critter or Senator looking to make waves will crawl up their underwear and that's as far as that Commander will go in their career.
This is becoming a problem in legal circles and is starting to concern even the liberal ACLU types within the military legal community.
We've created a self-licking ice cream cone wherein we push these guys to trial. When found not guilty, we double-down on the stupid and say the system failed; that we need to crack further down on the accused. it's getting frightening, to be honest.
Peregrino
08-23-2017, 13:08
Anybody remember these?
Six phases of ill-considered projects
1. Unbridled enthusiasm (Maoist Self-criticism session - invent a problem to demonstrate to the Commissars that you're serious about addressing the concerns of the SJWs.)
2. Disillusionment ("We're F'ed" - said by everyone not actively trying to appease the SJWs.)
3. Panic (We don't have enough incidents to report to make it look like we're really trying to get at the root of the problem, OR, we have so much to report that it's going to look like we're complicit too.)
4. Investigate / Determine Blame / Search for the guilty (Witch hunt!)
5. Punish the innocent (You were on the same installation, you had to know what was going on and you did nothing about it, OR, your investigation absolved the accused [because the accuser/victim was an E5 source] so you must be complicit.)
6. Reward the guilty / Reward the uninvolved (We know you did it OR we know you lied but it'll reflect poorly so we're going to transfer you to a better job somewhere else AND here's an ARCOM for the SHARP NCO for running such a great program that our Soldiers feel comfortable reporting perceived [or actual - it does happen] sexual misconduct or accusing someone they want to ruin of sexual misconduct.)
Did I miss anything?
Sadly - you are spot on!! it's all about the metrics:
"Did someone get punished?";
"Oh Yes Sir, we punished the hell out of someone!!"
"Good - we can't have folks going around not being punished."
sfshooter
08-23-2017, 18:08
I was in a Reserve Drill Sergeant unit when I first joined up. Our unit was at Ft. Jackson one summer (this was before I became a DS) and we had female trainees. They were in their own Company. The incident of accusations from the females was quite high concerning sex assault. Rumor had it that 3 DS's had already been busted. We were told by our command we would be guilty until proven innocent. That's typical for the military of course. It was pretty much a rule that you didn't ever be around them while alone and they usually always had to have a battle buddy with them.
I had Staff Duty one night and got called to take a sick female to the hospital. I was quite paranoid as I was alone although she had a battle buddy. We got to the hospital and I went to open the door to go in as she was quite sick. She collapsed right then to the ground. I could have easily caught her but actually stepped back as I didn't want any physical contact whatsoever. These trainees realize what power they have and they use it. They were not afraid to flirt openly either.
When you know you are going to be treated as guilty as soon as an accusation is made it sure makes you watch out extra careful. There were no incidents while my unit was there.
There were lots of stories of false accusation as it does get the DS in trouble immediately.
these trainees realize what power they have and they use it.
This times 100! They even teach this in DS school.
My expeirence with AIT soldiers was nothing but fear. They would frequently set up ambushes. Male or female. Myself being an NCO became absolutely useless sometime around 2009.
It got to a point where I would not even acknowledge their precence unless they had a battle and I had a battle too. Miserable time. Very easy to have you career ruined by some kid male/female/whatever just because you annoyed them.
But, as noted, some scum bags really do that stuff. They can go to jail.
rsdengler
08-24-2017, 04:51
Is it sexual assault, unwanted or tic for tac? My best friend went into the Army and she was involved with her DS, and it was consensual even though it was against regulations. But that is what you get when you have young males and females together, it is sometimes a playing field and we know that. If for instance it is unwanted, and a woman feels threatened or thinks if she does not go with the plan, then she feels there is no way out, then yes it is an issue and should be reported. But who are we blaming and is it a fact? I know, DS's know the regs and should follow them to a tee. So who then is at fault? The recruit or the DS? Temptation is temptation, will we break or will we stand our ground. :munchin
1stindoor
08-24-2017, 05:39
But that is what you get when you have young males and females together, it is sometimes a playing field and we know that.
Good thing we no longer have that to worry about after mandated power point training before we integrate the combat arms.
Streck-Fu
08-24-2017, 07:47
Am confused sir,
So if what you are advising is true, then the whole thing of reporting alleged sexual misconduct at this base is akin to a," dog and pony show?":confused:
Am not military, so I honestly do not know...but for sure if someone is making this up just to get ahead, it is indeed abhorrent and shameful to drag good Drill Sergeants names through the mud, IMHO.
Interesting...
Holly
He writes it better below.
I was in a Reserve Drill Sergeant unit when I first joined up. Our unit was at Ft. Jackson one summer (this was before I became a DS) and we had female trainees. They were in their own Company. The incident of accusations from the females was quite high concerning sex assault. Rumor had it that 3 DS's had already been busted. We were told by our command we would be guilty until proven innocent. That's typical for the military of course. It was pretty much a rule that you didn't ever be around them while alone and they usually always had to have a battle buddy with them.
I had Staff Duty one night and got called to take a sick female to the hospital. I was quite paranoid as I was alone although she had a battle buddy. We got to the hospital and I went to open the door to go in as she was quite sick. She collapsed right then to the ground. I could have easily caught her but actually stepped back as I didn't want any physical contact whatsoever. These trainees realize what power they have and they use it. They were not afraid to flirt openly either.
When you know you are going to be treated as guilty as soon as an accusation is made it sure makes you watch out extra careful. There were no incidents while my unit was there.
There were lots of stories of false accusation as it does get the DS in trouble immediately.
sfshooter
08-24-2017, 18:08
Is it sexual assault, unwanted or tic for tac? My best friend went into the Army and she was involved with her DS, and it was consensual even though it was against regulations. But that is what you get when you have young males and females together, it is sometimes a playing field and we know that. If for instance it is unwanted, and a woman feels threatened or thinks if she does not go with the plan, then she feels there is no way out, then yes it is an issue and should be reported. But who are we blaming and is it a fact? I know, DS's know the regs and should follow them to a tee. So who then is at fault? The recruit or the DS? Temptation is temptation, will we break or will we stand our ground. :munchin
Consensual gets the DS busted too. The trainee would get a slap on the wrist. A DS or any other Army instructor, whether civilian or military, must have absolutely no sexual escapades with students. The instructor is at fault.
I was a civilian instructor at Ft. Leonard Wood in 08/09 teaching Protective Services. There were a number of female students in each class. There was a lot of hanky panky going on for sure but I never heard that anyone got caught.:D
A Drill Sergeant is not even supposed to physically touch a trainee without their consent.....something such as adjusting a uniform/hat without first getting the consent can get a DS in trouble. This is overlooked (physical adjustments) quite a bit especially with males but I would hazard to guess it would be rare with females. I remember a friend who got pissed at this one trainee and was dragging him around by the ear. We had to calm him down and have him go cool off. The trainee didn't holler harassment or anything but he sure could have if he had known. He was one of those dirt bags (the trainee) he always gets unwanted attention.:)
Never had female soldiers as a DS...did have ROTC summer camp for a few cycles.....what a circus.
This is nothing new, this has been happening for years. I remember at one point there were 13 DS from one brigade being investigated at Ft. Jackson for improper fraternization. In fact, one DS from my DS Class lasted three weeks after graduation from DSS. Every week, you would open the post newspaper "The Leader" and there would be a story of a DS being busted.
Pulling CQ was very interesting at nights, especially doing the walk arounds in the common areas.
A Drill Sergeant is not even supposed to physically touch a trainee without their consent...
So, my DS would have had to say, "Mac! May I step on your butt to indicate that you need to keep it down in the low crawl pit?" :confused:
Oh, wait, I doubt that they even have low crawl pits anymore. Never mind.
Pat
RichL025
08-24-2017, 20:50
Not a DS or basic training story, but related...
I went to PLDC in 91 at Bragg - division was in the sandbox waiting for the first Gulf War to start, so the only PLDC students were the ass-and-trash from 18th Corps, and a handful of pre-Q course guys like myself.
Because we were the only things close to real soldiers, the PLDC cadre kind of confided in us pre-Q course people - they were mostly 11Bs from division, and aside from a few Old Guard guys, us pre-Q course people were the only combat arms types around...
One night one of the cadre grabbed me to accompany him as he was doing his nighttime rounds (he was kind of a wannabe who tried to suck up to all of us pre-Q course guys, but whatever...). He told me to look through the window into the female's barracks (yeah, not appropriate, but still, this guy was one of my cadre, so OK...). It was January in Ft. Bragg, so pretty cold, all the female soldiers were snug under their OD blankets, right?
Then we entered the barracks with a loud "Man on the floor!" as I guess was required. Wouldn't ya know, as we walked down the hall of the open-bay barracks there were all sorts of legs, breasts and asses sticking out of the covers, despite the 50 degree weather.
While I have worked with many female soldiers for whom I have the utmost respect, there is a certain "regression" to pretty basal behavior in settings like basic & PLDC. Damn sure those DS should have known better, but I'll bet that some of them were ensnared in traps of female privates who knew exactly what they were doing....
mojaveman
08-25-2017, 09:38
While I was attending basic and AIT at McClellan to become an MP we had one female Drill Sergeant in the company who used to walk through the barracks at night while we were sleeping. Being that there were no female recruits in our company during that cycle I thought it was a little different. I'm sure she got an eyeful too. :D
rsdengler
08-25-2017, 10:38
Not a DS or basic training story, but related...
While I have worked with many female soldiers for whom I have the utmost respect, there is a certain "regression" to pretty basal behavior in settings like basic & PLDC. Damn sure those DS should have known better, but I'll bet that some of them were ensnared in traps of female privates who knew exactly what they were doing....
Exactly, there is truth to that statement " but I'll bet that some of them were ensnared in traps of female privates who knew exactly what they were doing"
Believe me, speaking as a woman we know how to set the snare on the male gender. And I do think there are instances that the DS do over step their bounds and should know the consequences, women do "conjure up the black magic and the come hither expression". HOOKED.....:D But I won't give away all my secrets....LOL :o
Team Sergeant
08-25-2017, 13:30
This will soon end as Amazon will be marketing "RoboDrillSergeants". Until then, it's never going to end.
That said abusing your authority should be met will prison time.
(Unless you're bill clinton, then it's OK.)
RichL025
08-25-2017, 14:32
This will soon end as Amazon will be marketing "RoboDrillSergeants". Until then, it's never going to end.
That said abusing your authority should be met will prison time.
(Unless you're bill clinton, then it's OK.)
Yes, during Bill Clinton's tenure, the first female to qualify as a B52 pilot was fired due to inappropriate sexual relations with the husband of one of her subordinates.
The Pentagon said (with no irony whatsoever) that if a person has operation control of nuclear weapons, they are held to a higher moral standard...
Badger52
08-25-2017, 16:27
Given the previous pontificating about full gender-integration (branch/mission/full-spectrum battlefield requirements be damned, because "my feewings!"), it sounds like things are going according to plan.
:rolleyes:
As JimP points out, "someone" will get fried but, by God, that internal controls checklist will look damned spiffy.
:D
miclo18d
08-26-2017, 05:45
This will soon end as Amazon will be marketing "RoboDrillSergeants". Until then, it's never going to end.
That said abusing your authority should be met will prison time.
(Unless you're bill clinton, then it's OK.)
TS you never went to midnight showings of Heavy Metal when you were a kid? Robots are coming out as better sex than the real thing now!
Regret is not rape; forcing sex is rape. One is a life lesson the other should be a prison sentence.
frostfire
08-26-2017, 11:47
It got to a point where I would not even acknowledge their precence unless they had a battle and I had a battle too. Miserable time. Very easy to have you career ruined by some kid male/female/whatever just because you annoyed them.
Brings back memory of mixed gender training. I was very vigilant and did just what you and sfshooter wrote. I kept everything in professional setting, to include with one attractive and "attentive" female. One day I found myself in hall way with no one else around. She entered the hall way. I kept 3ft distance. Out of nowhere she closed in, shoved me to the floor, smirked and walked away. It was surreal (should have better peripheral awareness). Before I found permanent housing at Bragg, she offered me to stay at her place. Needless to say, I made stuff up to wiggle out of the invitation.
Consensual gets the DS busted too. The trainee would get a slap on the wrist. A DS or any other Army instructor, whether civilian or military, must have absolutely no sexual escapades with students. The instructor is at fault.
Rightfully so. Abuse of authority is a clear line (except if you're Bill Clinton).
One of the O in my unit had consensual episodes with lower enlisted down range (not that uncommon). Well, he evoked the "hell hath no fury..." from the lass. His promotion list got cancelled and he received a permanent flag. While she may be textbook fill-in-the-blank, what did he expect really
Even in liberal Europe, physical relationship between the subject and his/her figure of authority is no go.
Regret is not rape; forcing sex is rape. One is a life lesson the other should be a prison sentence.
After doing so many sexual assault kit, I submit that throw alcohol to the mix, power dynamic, and current culture, and it's all gray. I've come to the point where I tell both alleged victim and alleged perpetrator I believe both of them and I just stick to the forensic facts.
miclo18d
08-27-2017, 05:18
After doing so many sexual assault kit, I submit that throw alcohol to the mix, power dynamic, and current culture, and it's all gray. I've come to the point where I tell both alleged victim and alleged perpetrator I believe both of them and I just stick to the forensic facts.
Grey area, absolutely.
Forensics can only tell you that sexual contact happened. Rape is determined by forcible penetration that can show trauma to labia and mons. The fact that sexual contact happened does not prove rape.
Again, regret is not rape. If two people get drunk and decide to bump uglies. That is again a life lesson. Both parties may regret the decision, not just the female. Oops, an 18-20 year child support payment isn't the most fun thing. Nor is herpaghonnasyphilaids.
On the subject of leader/subordinate, boss/employee, instructor/student, person of authority/powerless, any relationship here is inappropriately unethical and should be avoided. I was in an MI Bn and saw it happen all the time. Stories of teachers with students, cops with detained persons, employers hitting on employees, etc. the person of power is always wrong and should receive punishment and/or charged with a crime, depending on level of authority to do so.
frostfire
08-27-2017, 10:58
Grey area, absolutely.
Forensics can only tell you that sexual contact happened. Rape is determined by forcible penetration that can show trauma to labia and mons. The fact that sexual contact happened does not prove rape.
Again, regret is not rape. If two people get drunk and decide to bump uglies. That is again a life lesson. Both parties may regret the decision, not just the female. Oops, an 18-20 year child support payment isn't the most fun thing. Nor is herpaghonnasyphilaids.
On the subject of leader/subordinate, boss/employee, instructor/student, person of authority/powerless, any relationship here is inappropriately unethical and should be avoided. I was in an MI Bn and saw it happen all the time. Stories of teachers with students, cops with detained persons, employers hitting on employees, etc. the person of power is always wrong and should receive punishment and/or charged with a crime, depending on level of authority to do so.
Concur. However, just need to clarify:
The crux of rape is consent, then in various states it breaks down to which body part penetrating which part. People have rough consensual sex all the time resulting in all kinds of trauma. Conversely, because of alcohol, state of arousal, anatomical features, etc. rape can leave no sign of trauma whatsoever. A little TMI, but well-estrogenized hymen and introitus can be very robust. Seen it too many times. That's why often after being so calm the alleged victims broke down when you told them no abrasion, tear, lac, bruising etc. because suddenly they think no one would believe them.
But yes, the worst an alleged perpetrator can do is say I didn't do it and then the kit shows DNA. If he or she say it was consensual, the kit is practically useless.
Yes, all shades of gray indeed.
IMHOO, prevention is key i.e. Mike Pence/Billy Graham rule but the social experiment in the last few years is anything but preventive :rolleyes: