View Full Version : My SFAS Failure
TS gave me the nod to post this. I hope it helps some of you younger (and even older) guys getting ready for selection.
I’m a 38 year old prior service guy that attended SFAS back in 2001. When I was an E-4, I re-enlisted with an option to work in the SF recruiting office on Ft. Hood. The reason I wanted this temporary assignment was so that I could fully immerse myself in all things SF prior to going to selection. There were about 6 or 7 other soldiers (half of which had already been selected and awaiting Q Course dates). We were up doing PT 2 hours before the rest of Ft Hood, and finished an hour after them. We ran, rucked, swam, and carried telephone poles around post. I thought I was ready for SFAS (there wasn’t any material for research back then).
While I was at selection, I had a blast. There was absolutely no other place I wanted to be. I quickly realized that “wanting to be selected” was relative. What I mean by this is that everybody there said they wanted to be selected but I was amazed at how easily people quit. I thought that everybody there wanted to be there just as much as I did but I was wrong. That being said, I couldn’t get my head around while people were quitting. I compared it to high school football. Simply put, if you want to be on the team, you have to run the 2 a day practices under the hot summer sun or you're not going to be on the team. One night I was talking to a guy who was originally from Panama (and could run like the wind). He was always telling jokes that were made funnier by his accent. I enjoyed talking to him after a long day. The next morning his rack was cleared. He had VW’ed during the night.
Now, I didn’t go to SFAS with the mindset of blowing every event out of the water. Actually, the only mindset I had was one of DON’T QUIT. This got me though a lot of tough times. By the time I got to land nav, I started to feel more confident every time somebody else quit because I was nowhere near wanting to quit.
The Downturn- Over the years, I’ve replayed this in my head over and over and over again.
Team week-
During one event, we were rucking while carrying ammo crates and rubber ducks. I was hurting as was everybody else. I should’ve worked on my grip and forearm strength. A Ranger officer was my carrying buddy for a couple evolutions on this event and he kept dropping the crate. This caused my arm and shoulder to jerk violently. After a few times of this, I lost it on him. I don’t remember what I said but it was something along the lines of “Drop this one more time and I’m going to fuck you up. You're a fucking Ranger, dude.” He literally started crying and said “I’m trying.” As I look back, I should’ve offered some encouragement and motivation instead of cursing him. He quit the event shortly afterwards.
I was never a great ruck marcher, but I had a heart like Rocky Balboa. One of the guys on my team happened to be a combat medic that used to do PT with the SFAS group back on Ft Hood. “John” was a lot stronger ruck marcher than I was so I used him as my motivation (“Just keep up with John”). During the transition forced ruck to the next event, we had a pretty good pace that all of the remaining team members were able to maintain. After a while, the cadre designated a new TL. The new team leader was built like a tank and one of his strides was 2 to the rest of us. He took off like a race horse. We had to ruck run just to keep up with him. As we moved out, we passed 3 other teams like they were standing still. Some of the other guys that were from Ft. Hood (but on different teams) saw this and as I was passing them, they mouthed the words “what the fuck?”, but all I could do was shrug my shoulders in reply and continue running. This went on for a good while and my team was starting to slinky a bit. I was definitely hurting but I kept telling myself to “Keep up with John”. What I thought was a good idea, turned out to be the worst. Why? John fell out of the movement. I continued on for a while but more and more of my team fell by the wayside. Finally, after telling our cadre assessor that I’m NOT QUITTING at least 25 times, he told me to get into the bed of the truck. I cried like no grown man should ever cry (barring loss of life). In the end, the new team leader finished with 4 out of the original 14 members. Other teams finished with their whole team intact while mine finished with 4. For 13 years, I’ve blamed that one man for robbing me of my destiny. It wasn’t until about a week ago that I realized the truth. I self-assed myself out of that transition movement. I essentially bet my dream of becoming a Special Forces soldier on John being as motivated as I was. I made a ceiling of John’s performance on that ruck, and as such, when he quit that movement, my mental ceiling was destroyed. It didn’t matter that I had never been able to keep up with John until that day. His failure became my failure.
I’m now older and a different person than I was back then. I understand and accept my shortcomings and I am determined to overcome them.
Here’s where I think I failed although I’m not qualified to say with any certainty:
1. I didn’t show up at SFAS wanting to destroy it, but rather only to survive it. My confidence was a slow gradual ramp up based on the failures of others.
2. As a younger soldier, I didn't understand the nuances of what others perceive as good humor. As we were putting away the logs after log PT, I made a joke about the team in front of mine being “blue falcons” for taking so long. I said it with a smile, but one member of that team glared at me as if I had said something about his mother. Coincidentally, this guy ended up being the aforementioned team leader of death.
3. Mentally, I based my performance output somebody else. I didn’t trust myself and my own intestinal fortitude. Who’s to say that I wouldn’t have been able to finish that movement if I had relied on myself?
What my older mind understands now-
If at least one of your reasons for wanting to be SF is to be a part of something bigger than yourself, then begin your training with that same mindset. Don’t train just to be strong, train to get strong so that you can help your team. Don’t train to be fast, train to be fast so that you can save your buddy’s life if you have to. Continue to learn so that you can be an asset to your team. Doing training with the mindset of becoming an asset to your team instead of a liability gives you a feeling of accountability. This feeling of accountability inherently lends itself to a stronger dedication to training because you are training for something bigger than yourself. I’ve started by sharing my failure with this community so that others may benefit from it. I hope to be back in boots within a month and hope to return to SFAS within 1 year.
striveseekfind
08-05-2014, 18:08
Synsei,
Good read, and thank you for sharing that. It makes me take another glance at myself and make sure that I refocus my own training, standards, and goals in order to best prepare for SFAS. When I was in the Marines and we would PT or hump, I always gauged my successes on those in front of me. If we were running, I would always try to pass the man in front of me, or if I was in the lead, then never allow the footsteps behind me to pass by. The same was true for the hump. I wouldn't allow any distance to open up between myself and the man in front, because the slinky is the WORST thing to try and overcome when you're exhausted. I am confident, but absolutely not cocky, because hubris and arrogance get stamped out very quickly and have no benefit to the team. Good luck in the future, and once again I appreciate hearing your story.
Thank you very much for taking the time to share your experience with us.
This is something I will be reflecting on for the next few days in order to better myself so that I may serve to a greater extent.
Best of luck at SFAS.
1stindoor
08-07-2014, 06:33
That was a good post and reminded me of a talk I had with a young Soldier a few weeks ago. I asked him why he didn't consider going to SF, his response was he was afraid he'd fail selection. I've been thinking about his answer every since and thought...if that's how you think...you probably will fail. I went through in 1988, I don't ever remember worrying about failing, though I do remember worrying about carrying my fair share of the load.
processengineer
08-07-2014, 18:09
Thank you very much for this, this is a side of Selection that I have almost never read about during my prep. Best of luck.
highlander282
08-07-2014, 20:28
Hey man, im a recent SFAS select and I can relate to the op. When I first showed up to SFAS the formation was huge, about 300 barrel chested tough looking men. I'm an average dude, spent all of my career in the 82nd, only maxed the APFT twice, and I was very intimidated. I remember thinking how in the hell am I going to get selected over all these studs. Heading into selection my mantra was don't quit, be a good dude to your brothers out there and carry your weight. So even though I figured I had a snow balls chance in hell of making it, I gave 110%. And guess what happened? The dude who finished first on every event failed something. Mean tough looking dudes couldn't hump a ruck, guys who did 30 pull ups couldn't navigate or keep there cool, and after 19 days this big ass formation of warriors was very very small, but I was still in it. So I believe as long as you can hack the standards, not be a whiny child and carry your fair share, you'll be dialed in...oh and read " a letter to Garcia. " you should be able to search it in the forums.
highlander282
08-08-2014, 05:31
Deleted
striveseekfind
08-08-2014, 16:58
That was a good post and reminded me of a talk I had with a young Soldier a few weeks ago. I asked him why he didn't consider going to SF, his response was he was afraid he'd fail selection. I've been thinking about his answer every since and thought...if that's how you think...you probably will fail. I went through in 1988, I don't ever remember worrying about failing, though I do remember worrying about carrying my fair share of the load.
1stindoor,
Intellectually, I understand where this guy is coming from, but I cannot fully understand that kind of thinking. I believe that the fear of failure is the worst excuse for not trying to accomplish something you hold in high regard. While I kind of feel bad for this guy, in the end I really don't. When people have remarked to me, "I could never be in the Marines, I don't think I could handle that," I usually tell them that they probably in all reality could, if they wanted to. In my mind though, I know that not believing in one's own capabilities and strengths is a guarantee of failure. If I were to not be selected, I wouldn't see that as a failure. The action of making an honest, true, and valiant effort to master the challenges presented before me does not constitute failure in my mind. Quitting, cheating, or any other negative removal would constitute failure, and that is not in my character. If I could not meet the standard, then that is that. There is a difference, then, between failure and non-selection.
frostfire
08-12-2014, 17:12
Team week-
During one event, we were rucking while carrying ammo crates and rubber ducks. I was hurting as was everybody else. I should’ve worked on my grip and forearm strength. A Ranger officer was my carrying buddy for a couple evolutions on this event and he kept dropping the crate. This caused my arm and shoulder to jerk violently. After a few times of this, I lost it on him. I don’t remember what I said but it was something along the lines of “Drop this one more time and I’m going to fuck you up. You're a fucking Ranger, dude.” He literally started crying and said “I’m trying.” As I look back, I should’ve offered some encouragement and motivation instead of cursing him.
Synsei, thank you for the humbling post and especially this part. 110% relevant for life, work, and "other" selection.
When I worked in the ED, I coined the term "wounded animal." The patients show this more often than not. When the stress, pain, and frustration go up, just like a wounded animal that person begins chomping on everyone else, even the healthcare personnel, even a supposedly team member. It is not uncommon for the ED staff to exibit wounded animal characteristics themselves. Hurt people hurt people. It is normal. It is expected. But rising above that is where that "special" comes in I suppose. Way back when this forum started in 2004, a QP gave an golden advice on practicing "selflessness" and made it a habit.
When I was in jump school, there were female students who weren't cutting it either due to excessive adipose tissue, lack of upper body strength, etc. The rest of the troop, the privates, the marines, PJ, CCT, and all, were very harsh towards them and pretty much encouraging them to quit. One MARSOC CPT, however, rose above the occasion and encouraged/motivated them all the way through jump week. One female E8 made it. I learned a lot from that MARSOC CPT on leadership and compassion. He was also the first on the serving roster on our chow line no matter how late the day. I told him we, the army, should be serving the marine as our guest instead, and asked to take his place. He wouldn't budge. The few, the proud indeed.
I'm glad that I was able to contribute by sharing my experience. The process of writing and sharing it with you guys was actually mutually beneficial. It forced me to be honest with myself.
On a side note, I hit my 25m target this afternoon by enlisting in the TXNG. I chose to reclass to 11B as its the logical choice in terms of acquiring more skill sets for the path I've chosen. Plus, how many people can say that they're the King AND Queen of Battle?- I also have an artillery MOS.
New 25m target: Passing SFAD at 19th Group.
funnyman
08-15-2014, 21:31
I'm glad that I was able to contribute by sharing my experience. The process of writing and sharing it with you guys was actually mutually beneficial. It forced me to be honest with myself.
On a side note, I hit my 25m target this afternoon by enlisting in the TXNG. I chose to reclass to 11B as its the logical choice in terms of acquiring more skill sets for the path I've chosen. Plus, how many people can say that they're the King AND Queen of Battle?- I also have an artillery MOS.
New 25m target: Passing SFAD at 19th Group.
If I read the thread correctly, you're 38 years old now? Do the NG groups have no age limit for entering the pipeline? Best of luck to you!
Scimitar
08-16-2014, 00:31
IIRC you have to have enlisted before your 35th and can DEP no longer than a year. So basically hit Basic before 36 yo
But the OP has existing TIS that can be added to that ceiling. Hence his ability to REenlist at a greater age.
S
funnyman
08-16-2014, 08:11
IIRC you have to have enlisted before your 35th and can DEP no longer than a year. So basically hit Basic before 36 yo
But the OP has existing TIS that can be added to that ceiling. Hence his ability to REenlist at a greater age.
S
I had 14 years TIS before I ETS'd. So that means I can be 14 + 36 = 50 years old and still reenlist and hit the pipeline? Interesting..
Doing Crossfit for the last 9 months has gotten me in great shape. :lifter
Plus, with all the extra courses I've been taking (VTAC, ECQC, etc), I'm a better tactical shooter than ever. Maybe third time is a charm. :)
Just kidding guys, I know I'm too old. I'll just stick around in case a war starts here.
HardRoad
08-16-2014, 15:27
My senior weapons sergeant from a few years ago, now a team sergeant, went through selection at 42 and the Q course at 43, and deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. The Guard really is a little bit different animal.
I'll admit I probably couldn't have done it, and you're more likely to find yourself sidelined by an injury than a younger man, but it's not impossible.
IIRC you have to have enlisted before your 35th and can DEP no longer than a year. So basically hit Basic before 36 yo
But the OP has existing TIS that can be added to that ceiling. Hence his ability to REenlist at a greater age.
S
Correct.
In terms of my age (38), I've made it a point to not think about it. Ever. All I think about is training hard, training smart, eating clean, getting selected, and what it'd feel like to have my wife and daughters attend my graduation from the Q. Outside of that, nothing else matters.
Interesting read. I used a much simpler process going through selection, one foot in front of the other. I never put too much thought into it and I believe it worked for me. My foot and wrist were broken day one of team week in 1990, I think if I had concentrated on the bigger picture I would not have ever finished that shitshow.
Good luck in selection, a guy in my class was 46 and made it, however, I was in the first easy class....we were the first to have a chow hall.
spottedmedic111
08-20-2014, 09:07
Terrific account, thanks for sharing. Using good judgement under stress is hard but necessary, i.e. letting someone else dictate your pace. Unfortunately, I showed up with shin splints that didn't clear up until team week. But, like others have said, focusing on how you can support your teammates helps take your attention off your own misery.
The Reaper
08-20-2014, 11:54
I was corresponding with a Marine officer who was preparing to attend SFAS. This was back when SFAS was more than three weeks long, and had full-up team week.
Three days before he reported for selection, he did a water survival practice swim, and then rucked twelve miles in combat boots. The same boots and socks that he had swum in, without drying them.
He sent me pics, most of the skin on the soles of his feet were blistered and falling off. There was more damaged skin than intact.
I told him that there was no way he should attempt SFAS with his feet in that condition. He told me that he had burned his bridges with the Marine Corps by applying for SFAS and agreeing to branch transfer should he be selected. There was no looking back, the Rubicon had been crossed.
I saw him a couple of times during SFAS, limping badly, and I figured he was a goner.
Come my usual visit on Board and Selection day, I asked a cadre if he was still there. He pulled up a roster and shouted for the roster number.
This kid came shuffling over, and I was shocked. I asked to see his feet to verify it was the same guy. His feet actually looked a little better than they had when he started the course, but they were still largely hamburger. Obviously, this Marine REALLY wanted to be SF.
He went off to do some task, and I asked the cadre if he was selected, and he smiled and said, "Roger that."
His teammates from Team Week said that he had the heart of a lion. I cannot conceive of the amount of pain this Marine officer endured during those three weeks. There isn't a lot of time in SFAS off your feet.
I guess there are a few lessons from this long story.
1. Don't ruck in wet socks and boots.
2. If you start feeling a hot spot, stop and treat it.
3. Burning all of your bridges behind you can be a powerful motivator.
4. People who tell you not to go may, or may not know what you are capable of.
5. Never quit or assess yourself out of the program. While a small percentage of people who do poorly are actually selected, we have a 100% non-select rate for Voluntary Withdrawals.
6. What is in your heart and mind is vastly more important to your success than your physical condition. I am not saying that you don't need to be fit and able to execute the tasks given you, but all of the physical fitness in the world is useless if you are not completely dedicated to the cause and are worrying about other matters. Physically strong people without dedication fail at a much higher rate than those physically lesser men who refuse to quit. And when it is just a couple of you left on that mountaintop, and you are stacking magazines, straightening grenade pins, and counting targets, who do you really want standing there with you? I'll take that Marine officer over the biggest PT stud I know.
TR
WarriorDiplomat
08-21-2014, 06:25
I second that amen TR
TR That was an excellent post. Thanks for sharing.
TR- Great story. Definitely one for my suck bank. I have a comedy bank that is filled with memories of funny things that dates back to cartoons I watched as a kid. I tap in to it when I need to pass the time. My suck bank is full of personal experiences and secondhand experiences that I tap into when I start to feel sorry for myself. Now I can say to myself "Shut your face. TR said that guy's feet looked like hamburger."
This site is great because I've never seen so much input and feedback from verified SF guys. There's no coddling here, just good, solid information. I only knew one SF guy when I was working at the SF recruiting station prepping for SFAS. He would come and show his face every so often, but I really didn't know what his role was there. I also got the feeling that he didn't really want to be there (which is understandable if you'd rather be on a team somewhere). He was kind of brash, liked his drinks, and, from what I heard was a bit of a womanizer. BUT there was just something about him when it was "go time". Very professional. I knew I wanted to be like him...mostly.
Another indelible mark was left on me as well. I was returning from some errand with the recruiting station NCOIC. We didn't see very many green berets worn on Ft. Hood, but here came one headed right for us. It turns out to be CSM Richard Efurd (sp). We introduced ourselves very formally and he put out his hand and said "Hi, I'm Richard. Glad to meet you." Being part of the big Army, I couldn't even fathom what just happened. I remember feeling awkward like I had stolen something.
Anyways, back to PT.
The Reaper
08-21-2014, 12:49
I was talking to SUT students several years ago.
They were commiserating about how early in the training, what a bunch of assholes they thought the SUT cadre were and how they really weren't anything special either.
Then, on a training event, a charge went off early and some people got hurt.
They said that the biggest cadre asshole of all happened to be an 18D and when the shit hit the fan, he grabbed a bag and went to work treating, stabilizing, triaging, etc. He was a completely different person.
The students said that they all wanted to be like him after seeing him doing his medic magic, and maybe the cadre weren't really as bad as they had thought.
Look up Special Forces and neuropeptide Y.
Neuropeptide Y is a stress buffer that allows people to better deal with stressful situations with less physical and mental performance degradation.
They studied some SERE classes and found that you could pick out the SF students over the others by their NPY responses to extreme stress, like interrogations. It was a nearly complete correlation. The psychs said that they could take the results of the NPY measurements, and make a stack of the highest performers, and the lowest, and the SF students were all in the high-performance stack, and none of the other branches or services were, to include Rangers and 160th.
Basically, as one of the psychs explained it to me, SF guys underperform in no to low-stress situations, and overperform in high-stress situations that would cause normal people to shut down. He drew a little graph that depicted SF performance across a stress event. SF guys tend to be pretty casual and maybe even lazy until the excitement starts, and then their performance goes off the top of the chart while others curl up into a little ball and quit.
Our selection and assessment process somehow found those people with an extreme degree of predictabilitly.
He said that they weren't sure how we did it, but the SFAS program for that time was optimized beyond their improvement for selecting the SF soldiers we wanted.
I guess the point of this is that you can't really judge SF until you are one, and even then, maybe not until you see them in action on a high stress event.
We don't select everyone, and that is good thing for the Regiment, and for the non-selects.
TR
...however, I was in the first easy class....we were the first to have a chow hall.
Ha! We had a "chow hall" too when I went through in '82. You filed by, got your C-rat, and at it at the pic-a-nic table in whatever weather was around at the time. Also they (very reluctantly I may add) cattle-cared us back to the COSCOM area for Thanksgiving breakfast, lunch, and diner then back to MacKall for our regularly scheduled smoke break (and still extremely pissed-off cadre I may add).
Last hard class
08-21-2014, 18:11
Ha! We had a "chow hall" too when I went through in '82. You filed by, got your C-rat, and at it at the pic-a-nic table in whatever weather was around at the time. Also they (very reluctantly I may add) cattle-cared us back to the COSCOM area for Thanksgiving breakfast, lunch, and diner then back to MacKall for our regularly scheduled smoke break (and still extremely pissed-off cadre I may add).
Don't worry. They fixed that. :D I was there for Thanksgiving the following year. Everyone got the turkey loaf C-Rat.
LHC
I went to through Phase 1 with Class 6-82. We wrapped up just before Christmas of 82.
My motivation on the ruck marches was just to keep close enough to the Cadre, (Big Paul Ford) so that I would be able to butt-stroke him with the "60" if I needed to.
My strategy was;
!. Make no friends- Friends tended to all quit together.
2. Help and be there to carry the load, and make sure I was not slacking on tasks.
3. Ask questions when you could, shut your mouth when you couldn't.
4. Never take the Donnor Pass route. There are no short cuts, only the path.
5. Never look past the task your on at the moment.
6. Never Quit! Better your heart should exploded then to quit.
7. Take the early night patrol shift. -- the food left in the chow hall fridge dwindled during the long nights!
Haa, Paul Ford...haven't heard that in awhile. I was at CMK in Jul (82).
All above advice is sound, lots of different ways to cope, but there are a lot of similarities...
Joker, I had the pleasure of going through phase 1 in 86 (with C company) sitting at those same tables, except we had mre's and that shitty koolaid. Being a rock I was able to hangout in 18D course before being selected for the 18B course which included SFAS. My motivation was to stop attending selection courses and actually pass shit the first time around. What's the saying....life is hard and is even harder if you're stupid.
Last hard class
08-22-2014, 17:33
Joker, I had the pleasure of going through phase 1 in 86 (with C company) sitting at those same tables, except we had mre's and that shitty koolaid. Being a rock I was able to hangout in 18D course before being selected for the 18B course which included SFAS. My motivation was to stop attending selection courses and actually pass shit the first time around. What's the saying....life is hard and is even harder if you're stupid.
That is some serious perseverance!
I suspect quitting never crossed your mind. I don't know how much info they collect on today's students. Do they ask them prior if they are worried about quitting (not failing)? I bet the majority of the voluntary drops would have answered yes. I have yet to meet an SF man who thought he might quit. Which always kills me when I hear someone say they trained for x amount of time but just wasn't mentally prepared.
LHC
Having spent so much time working with regular Army units over the last 10 years I have found there is absolutely an enormous difference between SF guys and everyone else. I guess you could say we're not better, not worse, but definitely have different mental wiring.
WarriorDiplomat
08-24-2014, 10:29
I was talking to SUT students several years ago.
They were commiserating about how early in the training, what a bunch of assholes they thought the SUT cadre were and how they really weren't anything special either.
Then, on a training event, a charge went off early and some people got hurt.
They said that the biggest cadre asshole of all happened to be an 18D and when the shit hit the fan, he grabbed a bag and went to work treating, stabilizing, triaging, etc. He was a completely different person.
The students said that they all wanted to be like him after seeing him doing his medic magic, and maybe the cadre weren't really as bad as they had thought.
Look up Special Forces and neuropeptide Y.
Neuropeptide Y is a stress buffer that allows people to better deal with stressful situations with less physical and mental performance degradation.
They studied some SERE classes and found that you could pick out the SF students over the others by their NPY responses to extreme stress, like interrogations. It was a nearly complete correlation. The psychs said that they could take the results of the NPY measurements, and make a stack of the highest performers, and the lowest, and the SF students were all in the high-performance stack, and none of the other branches or services were, to include Rangers and 160th.
Basically, as one of the psychs explained it to me, SF guys underperform in no to low-stress situations, and overperform in high-stress situations that would cause normal people to shut down. He drew a little graph that depicted SF performance across a stress event. SF guys tend to be pretty casual and maybe even lazy until the excitement starts, and then their performance goes off the top of the chart while others curl up into a little ball and quit.
Our selection and assessment process somehow found those people with an extreme degree of predictabilitly.
He said that they weren't sure how we did it, but the SFAS program for that time was optimized beyond their improvement for selecting the SF soldiers we wanted.
I guess the point of this is that you can't really judge SF until you are one, and even then, maybe not until you see them in action on a high stress event.
The Psyches at SFAS still use the same profile to select and I can tell you being a Cadre 2X that they are being gamed. I remember the study and the study does not address the discipline issues we have in today's force that is reflected in a lack of professionalism.
We don't select everyone, and that is good thing for the Regiment, and for the non-selects.
TR
Unfortunately the guys described here are the a-holes like the SUT medic who's bad attitude and the under performing lazy guys day to day activities are the guys who burden the team daily and take away from the critical vigilance needed for these other countries.
WarriorDiplomat
08-24-2014, 10:50
TR- Great story. Definitely one for my suck bank. I have a comedy bank that is filled with memories of funny things that dates back to cartoons I watched as a kid. I tap in to it when I need to pass the time. My suck bank is full of personal experiences and secondhand experiences that I tap into when I start to feel sorry for myself. Now I can say to myself "Shut your face. TR said that guy's feet looked like hamburger."
This site is great because I've never seen so much input and feedback from verified SF guys. There's no coddling here, just good, solid information. I only knew one SF guy when I was working at the SF recruiting station prepping for SFAS. He would come and show his face every so often, but I really didn't know what his role was there. I also got the feeling that he didn't really want to be there (which is understandable if you'd rather be on a team somewhere). He was kind of brash, liked his drinks, and, from what I heard was a bit of a womanizer. BUT there was just something about him when it was "go time". Very professional. I knew I wanted to be like him...mostly.
Another indelible mark was left on me as well. I was returning from some errand with the recruiting station NCOIC. We didn't see very many green berets worn on Ft. Hood, but here came one headed right for us. It turns out to be CSM Richard Efurd (sp). We introduced ourselves very formally and he put out his hand and said "Hi, I'm Richard. Glad to meet you." Being part of the big Army, I couldn't even fathom what just happened. I remember feeling awkward like I had stolen something.
Anyways, back to PT.
I appreciate the story but are you looking for some sort of validation?
I read your posts about suck banks, comedy banks etc...and am a little confused as to what it is you are looking for?.
I think most here have their own inner drive motivators and how we deal with misery and the suck and stress but I can't explain to anyone here why I tolerate it. Every time I go through a suck it changes and I cannot describe why or where it comes from.
Do you want to hear am I afraid of failing the answer is NO
Do I like the high of exceeding expectations YES
Am I afraid of letting others down the answer is YES
Do I feel the excruciating pain of tore up feet YES
Do my shoulders hurt carrying a heavy ruck YES
Do I like being wet NO
Do I like being hot NO
Do I hate the humidity, mosquitoes, nats, scuffed up skin, bleeding heels, and sore spots, bloody lower back, fatigue, being thirsty YES, YES, YES
All I can tell you is I wanted to be a Green Beret and I understood I would have to face myself and accept it if I wasn't tough enough and understand if I lacked what they were looking for. Every time the suck changed and or got worse I had something for it I always seemed to.
So what is it you are looking for from us? just do it and quit reflecting on why you failed.
Hey WD, I completely get that, I wanted to be a Green Beret since the age of 6, there was nothing else I ever considered and even now, having been out for 11 years I still gravitate to jobs that replicate those same skills. When I was working on my degree in psychology from Campbell I spoke to the USASOC psychs (I may have been the first SF guy to walk into their office voluntarily) and asked them what they found to be a constant in the mental acuity and particularities of an SF guy; there was none they said. I think what you mentioned earlier may very well be the base line for guys that make it through the process and I believe the process may have occurred accidentally (or some really smart guy happened to notice something, could go either way).
I appreciate the story but are you looking for some sort of validation?
I read your posts about suck banks, comedy banks etc...and am a little confused as to what it is you are looking for?
....So what is it you are looking for from us? just do it and quit reflecting on why you failed.
Good morning. I'm not sure what I posted that gave the impression that I am looking for something. Was it my original post or my response to TR's comment? I just like to keep my mind occupied when I'm (admin) rucking so I'll think about a past experience, funny stories, etc. to pass the time. I do not seek validation. Additionally, if I do not reflect on why I think I failed, I cannot effectively generate a plan to mitigate/correct my weaknesses. Subsequently I'd be setting myself up to fail again.
WarriorDiplomat
08-27-2014, 12:21
Good morning. I'm not sure what I posted that gave the impression that I am looking for something. Was it my original post or my response to TR's comment? I just like to keep my mind occupied when I'm (admin) rucking so I'll think about a past experience, funny stories, etc. to pass the time. I do not seek validation. Additionally, if I do not reflect on why I think I failed, I cannot effectively generate a plan to mitigate/correct my weaknesses. Subsequently I'd be setting myself up to fail again.
Their is an AAR as to why you failed with solutions then their is a failure mindset that screams I am intimidated by SFAS and am looking for the magic reason I couldn't sustain my grit. I can't quite read you it sounds that you followed and gauged yourself by others instead of blazing forward on your own accord.
Don't over think this shit dude, one foot in front of the other, concentrate on the task at hand. Plenty of time to look at the big picture once you get your tab. I've seen some big ol studly dudes quit and some little skinny fellas pass. Good luck
Probably a dick answer but it really depends on how bad you want to be an SF guy. I didn't have a broken back or cracked skull, bones heal, blood clots, the human body is tough. Shit, I cut my own cast off so I could sign into the weapons course on my time line, foots fine, wrist is ok, at 47 I still patrol with ODA's and the infantry (although, everything hurts like a bitch). I'm not alone, far from it, lots of guys go through tremendous pain to have the privilege to be on an ODA and perform that mission. The tab says Special Forces, not Regular Forces, there is a price to pay to be in this club, the price some have paid has been permanent injury and no tab, that's life.
x SF med
09-05-2014, 04:57
I think it still should be as quiet as when LHC, TS, TR and a few others went through.... Here's the packing list, here's your report date, be on time in the right uniform and you'll find out everything else when you do it. Can't anticipate what you don't know.
And then get Bob Howard greeting you at CMK, ready to ruck.
WarriorDiplomat
09-05-2014, 07:54
One thing I am curious about, but if one sustains such an injury during SFAS (broken foot or wrist for example), how do you know whether you should keep going or not, because if you have an injury, even if you are mentally capable of completing the training, couldn't you permanently injure yourself and thus prevent yourself from being able to become a Special Forces soldier? For example,
Debating whether or not to quit and self assessing your injuries or perceived injuries and quitting to preserve yourself is exactly what selection is for. You cannot quit real world when isolated in a jackpot or on an escape and evasion corridor. What we want for our foundation to build our GB's off of is the guy who continues the mission despite his personal discomforts. We have doctors, lawyers and scientist who go through SFAS and all that succeed have the character trait described above and that is they value mission and team above self despite the pain and injury.
1stindoor
09-08-2014, 13:42
I think it still should be as quiet as when LHC, TS, TR and a few others went through.... Here's the packing list, here's your report date, be on time in the right uniform and you'll find out everything else when you do it. Can't anticipate what you don't know.
And then get Bob Howard greeting you at CMK, ready to ruck.
I did SFAS...when it was still SFOT (in'88). The nice thing about it back then was that nobody really knew anything about the course and you had to just hope, "your best," as in "just do your best" was good enough to pass.
The Reaper
09-08-2014, 15:08
I applaud anyone who would consider his selection or failure and share his honest and candid thoughts here.
A really good candidate can take the criticism of the QPs and use it to drive his future successes.
I would hate to discourage candidates from sharing their stories with others, unless they are violating OPSEC.
Some candidates better understand the reasons for their failures than others.
TR
I applaud anyone who would consider his selection or failure and share his honest and candid thoughts here.
A really good candidate can take the criticism of the QPs and use it to drive his future successes.
I would hate to discourage candidates from sharing their stories with others, unless they are violating OPSEC.
Some candidates better understand the reasons for their failures than others.
TR
Yes.
That was a good story. Self analysis is the key to winning .. next time, if there is a next time.
The Australian Army Commando units in the 80's where small, very small, and starved of funds and opportunities but we didn't care. The thing was to pass selection and training (an advanced form of selection) and get the Green Beret, or the Green Hat, or just 'The Hat' as we called it.
The first weekend was selection; basically to get 105 applicants down to the platoon of 30 that the unit wanted to start training. We did PT, logs, rope climbs, man carries, runs, more, and then all over again and again until the DS got the numbers they wanted. All through the weekend a precession of people walked or limped out the Gate. I remember that was all I focussed on was .. The Hat, which was at least a year away, regardless of what ever was coming in the next 10 minutes. One hill climb up a track called 'the pipeline' was a blank in my mind, all I remember was starting it and the next thing I was doing situps on the oval on top of the hill about half an hour later. Whatever happened, it did not involve the Gate.
I passed selection and started training. Thanks to a smashed up ankle I watched the rest of my course get their Green Beret while I was on the side lines on crutches with an ankle full of bolts and plates, and working in the office with bits of paper. I didn't care. When the next course started, I told our CO that I would be able to do everything except run, and he said 'Do it'. He was an SAS guy and his attitude was that crawling over the line with no fingernails or toenails left was better than not starting.
That wasn't quite correct about the runs, I did the 15Km within 90 minutes with gear run, with the bolted up ankle anyway. As always, nothing mattered except - The Hat.
Eventually the bolts came out, the surgeon said it was the best repair job he had seen and I had obviously been doing some exercise. I didn't tell him exactly what that had been.
After a total of two long years from Day One, I got that Green Beret one cold night on our Parade Ground under the yellow sodium vapour lights with the rain streaking down. And that was just what I was after.
I agree about the SF brain wiring being different to that of others, including Infantry. Infantry dudes may not mind being cold, wet, starved, dehydrated, and exhausted if they think it proves a point. SF guys in the same boat do it because they see that it's good practise for the day/night when it's real. We also have more of a big picture look.
The unit's emphasis from Day One was - never stop and never give up, and they selected and trained accordingly. If the shit hit the fan in the real deal then you would have been a long way from support in a small group, and only one type of person gets the job done. The advantage to us being that the enemy would give up or slacken off first.
Funny stuff that illustrates a point:
I remember one exercise we were on early in the training phase, alongside an existing Green Hat platoon and some 'others'. Field rations at a stop were packaged food and prefabricated coffee - a coffee/sugar/milk block stuck to the bottom of the paper cup - add water and there it is :) Living like Kings.
A voice comes up.. 'what do you do if there's no water ?'.. One of our guys said ' Yeah, just break the bottom out of the cup and eat it like a biscuit.' One of the Green Hats said 'Mate, you'll do just fine here :)'
Another time we had a night ocean water ops exercise with our Zodiac GR3 inflatables that involved rafting four together and holding a position at sea for an hour until time 'H'. No wind, a current that needed a 1 knot headway in a choppy sea, everything is moving chaotically with the 1 meter waves, there is no horizon, no visibility, and we were in our own cloud of petrol and exhaust fumes, all which of course were the perfect conditions for sea sickness and lots of it. Vomit ruled. The fish were almost jumping into the Zodies to get a head start on their mates. I think none of the professional fishing boats further out caught a thing that night thanks to our contribution.
In all this, we had somehow acquired three RAAF Airfield Defense Guards, the RAAF 'Infantry', who had come along for the ride, who instead were now curled up in foetal positions, laying in the oily vomity water sloshing around the bottom, and drooling over the side. They had given up on doing their jobs, their weapons were just laying in all the filth, while in front of another Service. This was all new, they had no control, and they had nothing left. One asked what we would do if they got really sick. One of our guys replied slowly that we would ' just watch', prompting another dry retch ...
Between feeding the fish, watching fish jumping out of the water, listening to the RAAF blubbering in the background, and taking bearings on a shore light which was my job, my only thought was that I was glad to be with people who thought that all this was normal and who would never stop or give up.
An hour later we got wrecked in the surf doing a pickup, trashed the Zodie, and the next night almost got run over by a non-deconflicting RAN destroyer. We thought that was normal too (although interesting).
My advice for the SF applicant ? Eat and eat again, and good stuff only. Keep the carbs pouring in because you'll need each one. Drink - stay hydrated. Upper body strength. And lower body strength. Just think about the badge or beret at the end of it, nothing else, it's the passport to a great life. Your girlfriend's big warm olive-oil covered tits do not matter. Mates are good but remember the fact that most of the people you know now will not be with you in your SF unit, doing SF work, in a couple of years time, and the people you will be with then, and you, will be very different to those around you now.
Ponder fully that 'who you are' and 'what you do' are two very separate things.
I just wish I was doing this now. Joining in say, 1997 would have been the dream number, barring misfortune.
I copied this below from another page - its not mine, but it says everything and it is truly beautiful. Keep it to heart:
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause. Still want to quit?
The End.
conco303
10-11-2014, 22:30
As a guy going into SFAS, not one with the luxury of reminiscing on my days afterwards, I greatly appreciate what you shared with us. In a way that story reminded me of 4 years ago, when my HS basketball team was in the State Final Four my Senior year. All I had ever cared about was that game and my instincts while playing it, and I thought that was enough. But when there were 14 seconds left and we were down by 2, I passed up a baseline 3 to feed my favorite big-man target inside to send the game to OT. My instincts screamed that it was the right move, right until he slammed the dunk against the back of the rim and I watched my dream of 18 years bounce towards the other baseline.
I blamed him for sooooo long, but I should have hit that game winner from the corner. Self Reliance is crucial in demanding situations. But let me clarify that I am not comparing a game to combat, by any means. I am just saying that it's important to trust yourself.
The Reaper
10-11-2014, 22:55
As a guy going into SFAS, not one with the luxury of reminiscing on my days afterwards, I greatly appreciate what you shared with us. In a way that story reminded me of 4 years ago, when my HS basketball team was in the State Final Four my Senior year. All I had ever cared about was that game and my instincts while playing it, and I thought that was enough. But when there were 14 seconds left and we were down by 2, I passed up a baseline 3 to feed my favorite big-man target inside to send the game to OT. My instincts screamed that it was the right move, right until he slammed the dunk against the back of the rim and I watched my dream of 18 years bounce towards the other baseline.
I blamed him for sooooo long, but I should have hit that game winner from the corner. Self Reliance is crucial in demanding situations. But let me clarify that I am not comparing a game to combat, by any means. I am just saying that it's important to trust yourself.
I don't see the connection.
At all.
TR
conco303
10-11-2014, 23:06
I suppose the connection is that instead of following John, he could have trusted more in himself. Self awareness. But it was probably a weak connection at best so I will just be going back to reading until I get a better sense of this site's dynamics.
FrankCastle18b
10-11-2014, 23:28
I don't see the connection.
At all.
TR
Basketball instincts are tough too?
I see the correlation. Trust yourself and your instincts to always make the "big shot", whether it be in sports, training or combat. Good Luck.
I see the correlation. Trust yourself and your instincts to always make the "big shot", whether it be in sports, training or combat. Good Luck.
Go post your introduction on the Introduction thread before you get eaten alive by the QPs.
Quick, they're coming!!!! :munchin
Go post your introduction on the Introduction thread before you get eaten alive by the QPs.
Quick, they're coming!!!! :munchin
We will handle these things.....:eek: