View Full Version : Larry Thorne [Lauri Törni]
ghp95134
06-14-2013, 13:23
Larry Thorne [Lauri Törni]
I'll post some photos of Larry Thorne — some of which I received from a friend on the East Coast, other photos are culled from the internet. Before doing so, I'd like to preface this post by saying my father was in the 77th Special Forces ca. 1954~55 and was, for a short time, Thorn's team sergeant. My father's career path went like this:
505th PIR, 77th SFG, 1st SFG (before and after the black border), 6th SFG, 5th SFG (B-33, Camp Widder), Training Group, JUSMAG-MACThai … (with some leg assignments interspersed).
…I don’t recall exact dates I was in the 77th, but less than a year. There was a big turmoil at that time, they were still filling out vacancies in the 10th SFG, which were all taken from the 77th. I was left with a Team filled with Freedom Fighters from Hungry, ex-Foreign Legion, ex-SS Officers and a mix of European who didn’t speak English or very little of it. We were trained as a team -- everyone taking the same training and no one excused. The hardships placed on us were many; our field training was mostly Guerrilla Warfare and how to win the hearts and minds of the people. “ We are the fish and the people are the water, we can not survive without the people”. Sounds like it is straight out of Mao's little red book. [ghp95134's note: actually, it IS right out of Mao’s On Guerrilla Warfare (1937).]
Our mountain training was in the Grandfather Mountain area in NC. Thorne was an outstanding cold weather instructor. I remember one of his classes, about consuming alcohol while cold, he said "it is like peeing on yourself, it’s hot at first, but then it freezes; therefore, eat sardines and drink the juice because it’s a fuel and will warm your body"….
Many know Törni attended the Waffen-SS officer's school for a short time before being recalled to Finland, so there are a couple of not-well-known snaps of him standing in formation; plus the couple of him wearing his SS-Unterstürmführer uniform.
One of "Larry" as a roofer before he could join up, and a couple of him in the US Army.
I'll also tack on some of Aito Keravuori — whom I met as a 13 year-old. My father ended up being the S4 in Training Group and LTC Keravuori was the Group's XO. He came to the house at least once that I recall. My father jumped with him during Keravuori's "final jump", and there is one of Keravuori trooping the line during his retirement, just before being promoted to 06.
Cheers!
[P.S. I just learned how to insert images; however, I'm leaving the hot links as they will open to a larger image.]
ghp95134
06-14-2013, 13:27
Before uniform issue:
http://imageshack.us/a/img829/672/36ac.jpg
After uniform issue:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/xo2c.jpg/
Okay ... why won't my images post when I use the correct code?
ghp95134
06-14-2013, 13:34
http://imageshack.us/a/img849/8539/05y4.jpg
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/g9k.jpg/
Mannerheim Cross, Cross of Freedom, Iron Cross II class.
....and fiance Ist class.
ghp95134
06-14-2013, 13:37
Larry the Roofer:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/22/myax.jpg/
Larry's roofs:
http://imageshack.us/a/img809/6683/b1ep.jpg
ghp95134
06-14-2013, 13:41
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/211/6msk.jpg/
detail:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/2f1x.jpg/
Football player #45
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/1tl1.jpg/
detail
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/klxs.jpg/
ghp95134
06-14-2013, 13:45
Welcome to the 77th SFG, CPL Thorne!
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/04hn.jpg/
Linville River, NC - 1958/9
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/jlhr.jpg/
detail:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/6kok.jpg/
Sadly, I have no idea who all are in the photo, nor who owns the photo [same-same with up-thread photos]
ghp95134
06-14-2013, 13:49
Got these from a friend on the East Coast ... they look like screen-shots.
Germany
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/9xe3.jpg/
Thorne 2nd from left; Keravuori on the far right:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/203/757s.jpg/
Italian Alpini School, ca 1960:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/s5gr.jpg/
ghp95134
06-14-2013, 13:51
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/lpkh.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/9gk8.jpg/
ghp95134
06-14-2013, 14:03
1955
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/m3q.jpg/
May 1967:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/y3ur.jpg/
He just read the promotion orders advancing my father to major.
23 Nov 1967:
After LTC Keravuori's final jump he was given a baton passed by the Golden Knights:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/r87y.jpg/
L-R: COL Calloway, MAJ Power, LTC Keravuori
Pass in Review:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/bm3m.jpg/
.
.
.
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That concludes today's briefing.
Ghp95134, thanks for posting! i have never seen some of those photos anywhere else. Larry Thorne (Lauri Törni) was a great soldier with an amazing career. As I'll bet you already know, his time with the Waffen SS was for training only. He was basically TDY to them for officer's training. He was never a Nazi, but always a staunch anti-communist. As I posted a while back, I have a couple of Larry Thorne puukkos, originally made as potential awards for 10th Group. (See "edged weapons" subforum) I never served with 10th, but bought them from the guy who had them made. He has no more. They were sold for a while in "The Drop." IDK and don't think any were ever used as awards, based on my discussions with the gentleman, thus the magazine sales.
I would really like to know what happened to Larry, along with Shriver and a few others.
All of them, if possible.
RIP
I would really like to know what happened to Larry, along with Shriver and a few others.
All of them, if possible.
RIP
Yep, them and a whole lot more.
If he never served with a German unit why is he wearing an iron cross in that one photo?
One other comment about anti communist......Nazi's were Socialists...actually basically Communists but the primary difference was they were National Socialists believing in a German socialism and not the one world order of socialism.
Hooking up with a totally state run socialist outfit and saying you are anti communist is like being a little bit prego.
He may have been anti Soviet but far from anti communist.
If he never served with a German unit why is he wearing an iron cross in that one photo?
One other comment about anti communist......Nazi's were Socialists...actually basically Communists but the primary difference was they were National Socialists believing in a German socialism and not the one world order of socialism.
Hooking up with a totally state run socialist outfit and saying you are anti communist is like being a little bit prego.
He may have been anti Soviet but far from anti communist.
PRB, what you say is absolutely true, politically. There are several biographies of Thorne out there that can explain his stance on communists/Soviets better than I. But basically, Finland was invaded by Russia in 1939 and Thorne enlisted, serving as a cook initially. That war (The Winter War) ended in 1940 with a badly brokered treaty that had Finland give up the Karelian Isthimus. The Finns had militarily defeated the Soviets, but were totally logistically depleted. So they had to give in.
In 1942, war with the USSR broke out again (The Continuation War.) Germany offered Finland men and material. They took it. Germany sent advisors and troops. Finns recieved Iron Crosses and Germans Mannerhiem Crosses (I.e., RVN Cross of Gallantry.) Thorne was selected for officer training in Germany. Early on, the Waffen SS were the primary recruiters of Eastern troops. Lith., Lat., Ukr., etc. they raised several units of Waffen SS troops from these countries including one regiment from Finland that fought further south in USSR. Thus, they were set up for training these troops. Thorne completed training and returned to the Finnish Army. Funny that this came up, because I read in my local paper today about a former Ukranian SS Lt. that is 93 and living in MN. There is a movement to get him deported to Poland or Germany to stand trial for war crimes. Which is a good thing, since there is and shouldn't be a statute of limitations on what he oversaw as a Co. Cmdr.
The strangest part of WW II in Finland was the end. The Soviets launched an offensive and overran most of the Axis troops in Finland in 1944. The Finns again brokered a truce with the USSR. The terms this time included a clause saying that the Finns have to push the Germans out of Finland themselves by force of arms. So the Finns turned on the Germans and pushed them out via Norway (The Lapland War.) A surreal scenario.
Thorne's motivations were purely patriotic, based on what I've read. I guess it's like the Afghan people's erroneous initial embrace of the Taliban for relief from warlords after the Soviets pulled out. Be careful what devil you ask to the dance! And given Thorne's overall life story, I'd say he accepted the best training he could receive because he was indeed a Professional Soldier in every sense of the word. Even to the point of training under one homicidal dictatorship to fight another.
Here is my take on Thorne...and believe me, I'd of liked the guy.
He joined the SS prior to the invasion of the USSR, ergo the anti Soviet deal doesn't wash. The USSR and Germany had a non aggression pact/treaty and had already divided up territory between themselves.
In my opinion Thorne, like a lot of SF types, was a adrenaline junky with a military bent. He loved soldiering.
He also went with winners...initially the Germans were 'winners' everywhere when the war was in its early stages. Looked like a good gig.
After the war, we were the 'winners'...what better way to feed that soldiering desire. Looked like a good gig.
I see him as more of a soldier of fortune than a stalwart patriot of some type.
Not making a value judgment, just saying what I see from my foxhole.
There were lots of documents one had to sign and oaths one had to take before you put on the SS runes......and none of them would have made one a 'Patriot' in ones own Country.
ghp95134
06-15-2013, 17:51
From my reading, Thorne and other Finnish officers had to take the ferry over to Germany and wear civilian clothing enroute to the W-SS Junkerschule (OCS). He was sent by his government, but -- as was said -- the Finns in this particular class were recalled before completing OCS.
Some researchers/interested parties posit that later, near the end of the war, Torni again went to Germany to participate in the Werwolf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werwolf) sabotage activities (I think this statement is contested by some and supported by others). He just hated communists and wanted to kill them. (I worked for a Major Dickinson at the NTC whose best-know response to almost everything was, "What's that got to do with killing Communists?" He would have loved Torni.)
Torni returned to Finland after the war and was identified along with Keravuori (if I recall) and others of stockpiling government arms on the QT, for future use (they were dissatisfied with Finland's easy truce with Russia). Torni was incarcerated but later escaped and made his way eventually to the US: he jumped ship in Mobile Bay (AL) and swam to shore.
Similar situation with Keravuori, though since he was not associated with the W-SS he had an easier time getting into the US and the Army. I remember my father telling me that LTC Keravuori could never even visit his family in Finland because he would still be arrested (this was ca. 1966-68). Dunno if that was accurate at the time or "urban legend" .... well "SF Legend."
My father also told me that Larry Thorne was a double-recipient of the Mannerheim Cross; but that is an incorrect SF Legend. Thorne had two orders of the Freedom Cross plus the Mannerheim Cross. There was only one or two individuals ever who were Mannerhiem double-receipients.
Regarding the Iron Cross II Class (EKII), Larry is reported to say that a number of EKIIs were provided by the Germans to be handed out to Finnish soldiers; he never understood why he received his as it was not related to any of his deeds against the Russians. (Again, I'm recalling this from memory and might not present a fully accurate summation.)
--
ghp95134
06-15-2013, 18:05
...[Thorne] joined the SS prior to the invasion of the USSR, ergo the anti Soviet deal doesn't wash....
That is correct, there was a pact with USSR; however, there is a deep history of distrust/resentment between Finland and Russia/USSR. Plus, in 1939 the USSR was playing naughty with Finland. So I think Torni had ample reason to be anti-Soviet.
Briefly from Wiki (yeah, I know...)
In 1809, Russia conquered Finland from Sweden in the Finnish War. Finland entered a personal union with the Russian Empire as a grand duchy with extensive autonomy. During the period of Russian rule the country generally prospered. However, in the early 20th century Russia tightened its grip on Finland, causing widespread resentment. When revolution broke out in Russia in 1917, Finland declared independence. In 1918 the Finnish Civil War broke out between the generally right-wing government supporters and left-wing rebels. The war ended with the victory of the government forces, supported by Germany, and the expulsion of Russian troops.
During the inter-war period, the relationship between Finland and the Soviet Union was tense. Some elements in Finland maintained the dream of "Greater Finland" which included the Soviet-controlled part of Karelia. The proximity of the Finnish border to Leningrad (now Saint Petersburg) caused worry in the Soviet leadership.
On 24 August 1939 Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. In a secret clause of the agreement, Finland was part of the Soviet sphere of influence. On 12 October the Soviet Union started negotiations with Finland concerning parts of Finnish territory, Karelian Isthmus, the Gulf of Finland islands and Hanko. No agreement was reached. On 26 November the Soviet Union accused the Finnish army of shelling the village of Mainila. It was subsequently found that the Soviets had in fact shelled their own village to create an excuse to withdraw from their non-aggression pact with Finland. On 30 November the Soviet Union attacked Finland. The attack was judged illegal by the League of Nations and, as a result, the Soviet Union was expelled from that body on 14 December.[1]
source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Finland_during_World_War_II)
The truth, I suspect, is somewhere in the middle...either way, a great soldier with an amazing story.
The truth, I suspect, is somewhere in the middle...either way, a great soldier with an amazing story.
I concur. I have been very interested in Thorne for years. I have to say, I never thought about the adrenaline junkie angle. Definitely that was a huge component of his personality. The bios and stories I've read always have the anti- commie slant. As we all know, no one writes a completely neutral biography.
Riflecop1
10-26-2013, 09:48
Hello all. I usually lurk and don't post on this site since I don't have much to contribute among SF veterans. But I recently stumbled across an old Army archive video on youtube that I believe most here will appreciate. Notice the name tag on the older lieutenant wearing signal branch insignia.
Regards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_mtIBRn1EI&app=desktop
ghp95134
10-26-2013, 13:54
Hello all. I usually lurk and don't post on this site since I don't have much to contribute among SF veterans. But I recently stumbled across an old Army archive video on youtube that I believe most here will appreciate. Notice the name tag on the older lieutenant wearing signal branch insignia.
Regards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_mtIBRn1EI&app=desktop
Yeah, that's a classic! Thanks for posting the link.
--ghp
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/bm3m.jpg/
That's BG Albert E Milloy standing next to LTC Keravuori in the jeep.
ghp95134
10-27-2013, 17:34
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/bm3m.jpg/
That's BG Albert E Milloy standing next to LTC Keravuori in the jeep.
WCH, many thanks for the positive ID. I'll pass that back to my dad who took the photo.
--ghp
mike-munich
05-28-2014, 05:46
Happy Birthday MAJ. Larry A. Thorne. R.I.P Sir.
"Old SF" was a little bit of everybody.
And the Europeans were invaluable for all the right reasons.
Thorne was one of the best. A rightful legend in SF.
As for all the Nazi stuff...
When I went through the "Q" course part of our required reading was "The Devil's Guard" - which has been republished and is available.
And the US GOV didn't have any problems with Germans/Nazis - Werner Von Braun and his rocket team were recruited and whisked away to the US with no issues and they were responsible for the V1 and V2 blitz against England.
RIP, Larry Thorne.
I met a platoon minus mob of Finnish Paras(some current, most prior service) who jumped in Normandy recently on a bunch of C47s.
Asking them about Lauri Torni was a great way to break the ice with a bunch of laconic, poker faced Finns.
WarriorDiplomat
08-06-2014, 07:53
"Old SF" was a little bit of everybody.
And the Europeans were invaluable for all the right reasons.
Thorne was one of the best. A rightful legend in SF.
As for all the Nazi stuff...
When I went through the "Q" course part of our required reading was "The Devil's Guard" - which has been republished and is available.
And the US GOV didn't have any problems with Germans/Nazis - Werner Von Braun and his rocket team were recruited and whisked away to the US with no issues and they were responsible for the V1 and V2 blitz against England.
RIP, Larry Thorne.
Politicians were no different then than they are now the battle against tyranny is not ever priotity for governments. Neither was fighting evil, governments then like now seek power and when the winner of a war has defeated the enemy they rape the country of its talent and builds the winning country into a stronger power and being right or wrong has nothing to do with it.
Do you have more Thorne pics aswellas other Finns, Kairinen Paavo and Aito Keravuori ?
Do you have more Thorne pics aswellas other Finns, Kairinen Paavo and Aito Keravuori ?
Your join date says May 28, 2012, I'm guessing your intro was lost. If that is the case?? Please post an NEW introduction and fill in your profile.
As this thread is a bit old, you might better use your google fu and search the web for more pictures..