XM2010

[33army]

I hope my search skills didn't fail me on this one. I didn't get any results when I searched for this, but does anyone have any experience with this system and if so, how does it compare to other systems?

"As an upgrade to the combat proven M24 Sniper Weapon System, the XM2010 is chambered in 300 Win Mag...."

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/Firearms/Sniper%20Rifles/XM2010.aspx

[longrange1947]

I shot it during tests at Aberdeen for down select. It is an excellent weapon system. The Army, in its ability to screw shit up, did not take the option (for free) of a user changeable barrel. That would have made the weapon even better. The stock is excellent and one of the most user friendly stocks bar none, and I have shot a few stocks. It is a pleasure to shoot.

It is a 300 Win Mag, so expect the capabilities and limitations of a 300 Win Mag. :munchin :D

[33army]

I want the stock for my Savage .308:mad: I wonder if I could just get the stock. The weapon itself looks impressive to say the least. And of course the army didn't get the changeable barrel....who needs that anyway. Just burn it up and send it for gauguing by the local PV2 in the 3rd Shop. Seems like a good plan to me......:confused:

[longrange1947]

The stock, right now is not for sale to the open public and will be right expensive once it does.

Anyone have a 300 Win Mag they want shed of for a decent price? :munchin :D

[33army]

Best I got is a Savage Axis XP .308 at this point. New baby kinda dampens all hope of acquiring a daniel defense anytime soon.:(

[longrange1947]

Right now it is in Remington long action only.

[dr. mabuse]

The stock, right now is not for sale to the open public and will be right expensive once it does.

Anyone have a 300 Win Mag they want shed of for a decent price? :munchin :D

What's considered a "decent price" in your neck of the woods? :munchin

[longrange1947]

Actually looking for a barreled action as I have all the other pieces. :)

[koz]

Drake Associates is selling the CADEX chassis - it's about as close to the RACS as you can get. But unfortunately not built for Savage - only Remington.

http://www.drakeassociates.us/content/cadexstrikeseries

[33army]

Drake Associates is selling the CADEX chassis - it's about as close to the RACS as you can get. But unfortunately not built for Savage - only Remington.

http://www.drakeassociates.us/content/cadexstrikeseries

Of course not. Everyone loves Remington and shuns Savage. Unfortunately, at least IMO, Savage is a weapon of equal if not better quality in both craftsmanship and performance.

[Peregrino]

Actually looking for a barreled action as I have all the other pieces. :)

If you can't find something in one of the local pawnshops Brownell's is selling the Remington actions for $425.00 or so. Get Mark or Ed to put a decent barrel on it for you and "go to town". Mark built mine and it shoots just fine! :p

[longrange1947]

Sean, that was pretty much what I was going to do if I found an old receiver and let Mark do his magic. :)

Had not thought about Brownells receiver. do they still make the Winchester safety ripoff for the Remy bolt? Have not seen it for a while. I like the Winchester safety better than the Remy safety. I know I know!! :D

Has he, Mark, gotten his new email set?

[caveman]

It is a 300 Win Mag, so expect the capabilities and limitations of a 300 Win Mag. :munchin :D

I'm unfamiliar with the limitations of a 300 win mag. What are they?

[longrange1947]

I'm unfamiliar with the limitations of a 300 win mag. What are they?

Every weapon has limitations. One quick one is barrel life, especially if you are into 220 gr at high velocity, barrel can go in less than 500 rounds.

Second one, especially again with fast heavy loads is limitation on how much you can shoot in a setting. I know, "I'm recoil resistant", BS, recoil effects all, just when.

Third, Belted magnums have consistency problems due to the belt being used for head spacing. This is one of the reasons so many went to 6.5 in long range matches and moved away from 300 Win Mag, that and 2 above.

There are more, but a good shooter will always "investigate" and find out on his own. :munchin :D

[caveman]

I appreciate the insight.

[MVP]

Rick,

I thought you favored the 338L over the win mag.

MVP

[longrange1947]

Rick,

I thought you favored the 338L over the win mag.

MVP

In the sniper world, I would take the 338 Lapua or Ultra Mag over the 300 every time. Why would I stay 30 Cal when I can step up. :confused:

The big army went 300 so we are stuck with it for now. The 2010 is a nice shooter just not the 100% solution. The 338 will get about the same barrel life with the 250 gr that the 300 gets with the 190 gr. Hell, the 338 will get about the same a tad better maybe shooting the 300 gr that the 300 gets shooting the 220. Of course there is he 300 Ultra Mag, but then you are still doing 30 cal. I want not just accuracy but the bullet weight to add to the mix. While bullet placement is good, a heavy round is good for that bad bullet placement and allows for a nice follow on shot. :)

For personal use, those suckers are expensive!!!! :D

[Buffalobob]

There is an analysis of of the ballistics of the rifle with the Sierra bullets and the new Berger bullets. Sierra continues to wander around in the Paleozoic era of bullet shape and really needs to improve their product design. Obviously, the article is a Berger advertisement, but it still contains information some might find interesting.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Information/WEZ%20300%20Win%20Mag.pdf

[longrange1947]

Good article. SFSC has looked at some of the newer bullets. Problem is that if Sierra is in the Paleozoic, then the military is even further back in eras, maybe by 2 or three. :D

I have, however, seen bullets that look great on paper but do not perform to that level on the range, let alone over unknown terrain. :munchin

[frostfire]

The stock is excellent and one of the most user friendly stocks bar none, and I have shot a few stocks. It is a pleasure to shoot.


Master Rick,

I assume that's because of the modularity of the stock and how it can be fitted to the shooter vs the shooter doing all kinds of cheek molding for consistent relief, alignment etc from shot to shot? During the USASOC match last December, IIRC AI and Sako brought their equivalence of such stock and both were great to face-fit:D

I often wonder, in the world of international rifle aka $4000+ air rifle made to shoot 10m, indoor! such space-age-looking-modular-adjusted-to-user stock has existed for a long time. Is it due to improvement of material/workmanship, change of battle setting (no more dragging rifle through mud/sand/vegetation), or just the military catching up that it's finally adopted now?

Yep, those are $$$$$ for personal use. Where's that demotivational poster that reads 300Winmag chambered for $5 bill :D

[Peregrino]

There is an analysis of of the ballistics of the rifle with the Sierra bullets and the new Berger bullets. Sierra continues to wander around in the Paleozoic era of bullet shape and really needs to improve their product design. Obviously, the article is a Berger advertisement, but it still contains information some might find interesting.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Information/WEZ%20300%20Win%20Mag.pdf

I have it from an impecable source that the Army went with the 220 Sierra because it was not as sensitive to seating depth/freebore as some of the "better" Bergers, etc. Sometimes, especially when military logistics are involved, compromise really is the right answer.

[Buffalobob]

I have it from an impecable source that the Army went with the 220 Sierra because it was not as sensitive to seating depth/freebore as some of the "better" Bergers, etc. Sometimes, especially when military logistics are involved, compromise really is the right answer.

I got to thinking about that issue last night and I know I hunt with, and compete with, the Berger VLDs jammed to achieve best accuracy. This is not something the military would condone nor even most other hunters.

I don't know about the new "hybrid" Bergers and seating depth but the older Bergers with aggressive designs are very sensitive to seating depth and carbon rings, etc. Supposedly the new hybrid design has reduced that sensitivity but how much better than before is not a subject I know about.

[longrange1947]

Frostfire - One of the problems with sniper weapon systems is that they are a combat rifle, accurate, but still for use in combat. Now you can have a rugged combat rifle, or a very accurate Match rifle, but not both. Thus you must balance the ruggedness of combat with the accuracy required for a sniper mission. It is a delicate balance that is lost on many.

Now I can find all sorts of whiz bang stuff to put on or in my rifle, but what affect will it have on the ruggedness of the system. That is why there are so many cool things out there, but not on the SWS. The new stock was designed by a Sniper out of Benning and he did a fine job of marrying the two requirements. It is Solid, Stable, and Durable, the three must have things in a sniper stock for war and not a rifle stock that is babied on the range or in the field by a hunter.

Bob - Unfortunately the same is true with ammo. It must be mass produced and as the tolerances go up the likelihood of that ammo being used goes down. Again, a lot of good stuff out there, but must be hand loaded, or loaded to too tight of a tolerance for military sniper use. The same is true with using some wild cat rounds, they just can't be mass produced with the accuracy required.

My 2 cents guys.

[MVP]

Here is an example of a sniper gun designed by target shooters. BTW: brings big $$ on the collector market these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_WA_2000

I think this was the only film it appeared in; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4jRUZkbVLc

MVP

[longrange1947]

Yes, I rank that up there with H&Ks Piece of Shit Gun -1. :munchin :D

Heavy, Expensive, Delicate, and crap.

I am sure to get someone to come to that weapon's defense shortly. :munchin

[Buffalobob]

While I was waiting around for the ceremony last week, I went over to the JFK SWC Museum and was surprised to see an actual M21 in the Mogadishu display (I would have expected it in the RVN display). It had the ART scope on it. I was amazed that it and the scope were displayed as weapons used. I have seen a few pictures of them in team rooms in Afghanistan so it is still aorund. This is probably the ultimate compromise system with the semi auto feature being very good for some of the stuff we did at close to moderate ranges (500 yds) in RVN (once you are in tripe canopy a bolt gun is just not all that handy). It has been around for half a century and I am sure that there will be plenty of guys who will chose it over any bolt gun for certain types of missions. Of course when one gets into long and extreme range the poor little 308 case with its limited powder capacity is not a great choice.

[longrange1947]

Bob - The M21/25 was used extensively up to about 10 years ago when the SR-25 started to take hold. Some of the teams and SMUs stayed with the M21/25 as the SR was a box of Chocolates, you never knew what you would get. Your SR could be nuts on and mine would not hold minuter of bucket. The mods on the M21 allowed for a slightly more durable weapon system, but still had problems. What you are seeing now is not the M21, but a rack grade in a Troy stock called an EBR. It is a Designated Marksman Rifle and does not have the accuracy of hte M21 when it he M21 was tweaked properly.

Now days, the M110 is a repeat of the SR-25 debacle. A Marine at the Benning comp walked up to Reed Knights son and said, while holding a M110, "This is a piece of shit, that is a piece of shit, that and that is a piece of shit". To say the M110 did not clear up the SR problems is an understatement.

That being said, the LaRue OBR semi-auto will rival a bolt gun, yes I said that, and it maintains it's zero and accuracy under field conditions. It really is a valid alternative to the 7.62 bolt gun.

Just my thoughts on the subject. :D

You going to be at the convention this year? If you are and have not fired an OBR I will let you shoot mine. :)

[The Reaper]

I sometimes wonder if gReed and Mini-gReed do not have Crane in their pockets.

Why in the Hell is the Navy selecting weapons systems for a joint command which is mostly ground oriented and 50%+ Army?

Given their abysmal track record why are we still using them?

Other than the obvious Admiral in charge factor?:rolleyes:

TR

[frostfire]

Here is an example of a sniper gun designed by target shooters. BTW: brings big $$ on the collector market these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_WA_2000

I think this was the only film it appeared in; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4jRUZkbVLc

MVP

but it looks cool in Jason Bourne hands on the rooftops! :p

That reminds me of this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSR-Precision_GmbH_DSR-1
Correct me if I'm wrong, Rick, but IIRC last year a collector brought that to the range after the match. Between the custom magazine, the design-induced prone-to-FTE, and poor cheek fit, it was one of the most user unfriendly system. Even the owner who said he paid around $15000 agreed it was a POS. That really taught me about online review/hype and firearm magazines...

I don't have anything against bull-pup design. In fact, the DTA .308 and .338 that were on demo as well were laser beam with instinctive fit! Mr Harsey would agree with me. He shot and shot and shot and shot, prone, offhand and all, even with some FTE. Now, that was not the bull-pup's fault, it's those sasquatch paws! :D


That being said, the LaRue OBR semi-auto will rival a bolt gun, yes I said that, and it maintains it's zero and accuracy under field conditions. It really is a valid alternative to the 7.62 bolt gun.

Just my thoughts on the subject.


Sure you're not biased on this, master Rick :D ? Something to do with retirement gift...he he he. Mine is shooting 1 MOA with FN surplus7.62 now. I got some extra fps running it at suppressed mode

[Dohhunter]

To briefly refer back to page one, the Cadex chassis (only) is retailing for $2,300 (Strike 30) and $2,650 (Strike 50) here north of the border.

[dr. mabuse]

Yes, I rank that up there with H&Ks Piece of Shit Gun -1. :munchin :D

Heavy, Expensive, Delicate, and crap.

I am sure to get someone to come to that weapon's defense shortly. :munchin


Hey, hey, hey! The PSG-1 does just fine as long as you don't go too far afield! :munchin

[longrange1947]

Hey, hey, hey! The PSG-1 does just fine as long as you don't go too far afield! :munchin

You mean be a sniper? :munchin :D

[MVP]

LR,

He means "SEAL sniper" i.e. not more than 15km from the beach.

MVP