New Army Combat Shirt

[NousDefionsDoc]

LINK (http://www.army.mil/-news/2007/05/04/2995-peo-soldier-to-unveil-new-army-combat-shirt/)

Crye rip off and the logo is gay, but it should be better under the vests. Any bets as to whether the CSMs will let the troops wear it without BA on?

[The Reaper]

If they look like the model, I would.

Never had a troop like that before.

TR

[abc_123]

you can't wear that shirt without the body armor as long as it's got that gay logo in front (or w/o a little modification with a sharpie marker)

[jatx]

They should come up with an ACU vest that stows easily and can be put on quickly once your gear is grounded. That would satisfy the requirement for name tapes and rank patches.

I like what appears to be a reduction in the square footage of velcro on the sleeves. That stuff just ends up looking like shag carpet after you've been in the field anyway.

Not so sure that I like the Al Gore-esque mock turtleneck. A simple crew neck would have been better.

[groundup]

Maybe it is just the picture, but the pockets seem a lot smaller than the ACU top. Also, am I reading this correctly that there is going to be another set of clothing including pants? They are calling them Army Combat Pants and Army Combat Shirt. So when I go to my supply Sergeant and say I need new pants, I am going to get one or the other? Oh boy, seems like another logistical nightmare that could be averted with a simple name change. Is this supposed to replace my nomex uniform?

[Eagle5US]

Any bets as to whether the CSMs will let the troops wear it without BA on?
I am sure you can gauge my current CSM's position without me even going there.
As a side....
Why is the center silohuetted with the foliage green? Fashion sense???
I also think the logo is rather gay....but like how the primary model really sticks it out there for us to see:D
This is a GREAT set up too. When the Army changes it's logo and slogan in another couple of years (for another 2 Billion dollars)....they get to rebid the entire contract :D.
Joe's are going to be beside themselves with all the friggin uniform "choices" they are going to have to keep up with. For the rest of us-it will just be one more thing we have to buy...:rolleyes:

Eagle

[Pete]

LINK (http://www.army.mil/-news/2007/05/04/2995-peo-soldier-to-unveil-new-army-combat-shirt/)

.... Any bets as to whether the CSMs will let the troops wear it without BA on?

Ah, the poor SGMs and CSMs. The Army has once again changed uniforms but this time they've come out with something between a T-shirt and Uniform jacket, although it leans to a jacket.

If you were in your T-shirt you used to be working/detail or off duty relaxing. Now? Who knows. Look for local reg's to come out baning it's wear without DCUs. Imagin, with hundreds walking around the PX, all the higherups who will fail to get their salutes?:D

How many months ago and we were talking about the change in the dress uniforms to Blues?

Whats wrong with just a few combat uniforms for different utility (pilots/grunts), made in a few different camo patterns and when you come out with a better material, change it?

Pete
Who liked the old gray sweats, cheap and long lasting.

edit: First Post of the Day - only one eye open and not enough coffee yet.

[Eagle5US]

Pete
Who liked the old gray sweats, cheap and long lasting.
AMEN TO THAT!!!:lifter

Eagle

[NousDefionsDoc]

They should come up with an ACU vest that stows easily and can be put on quickly once your gear is grounded. That would satisfy the requirement for name tapes and rank patches.

I like what appears to be a reduction in the square footage of velcro on the sleeves. That stuff just ends up looking like shag carpet after you've been in the field anyway.

Not so sure that I like the Al Gore-esque mock turtleneck. A simple crew neck would have been better.
They can steal the vest from the same place they stole the shirt.;)

[jatx]

They can steal the vest from the same place they stole the shirt.;)

LOL, maybe they'll steal a new pattern while they're at it...:D

Think this shirt will drive CSM's crazy? Wait until someone wears the black fleece over it.

[D9 (RIP)]

The design reminds me of those baseball shirt/concert t-shirts that were popular in the late seventies. Can I get mine with a Krokus logo on front and tour dates on the back?

Seriously, I thought the ACU was a combat uniform. What is that now? The Army's casual spring line? I guess if it's a better, flame resistant fabric then maybe the ForcePro benefits outweight the irritation at having one more uniform item for the SMGs of the world to micromanage.

[The Reaper]

Time for our regular mention of how great it was having the OG 107 jungles for all field environments (less than $15 per set, DXable), and khakis for Class Bs.

The ACU is a disaster, and matches very little, other than as jammies on floral patterened sofas. The Multi-cam is a much better pattern for almost all environments, and is a more practical uniform as well.

Just my .02.

TR

[Sionnach]

Time for our regular mention of how great it was having the OG 107 jungles for all field environments (less than $15 per set, DXable), and khakis for Class Bs.

The ACU is a disaster, and matches very little, other than as jammies on floral patterened sofas. The Multi-cam is a much better pattern for almost all environments, and is a more practical uniform as well.

Just my .02.

TR

I like the principle of the shirt, but I'm not real fond of the execution. What the hell is the logo for? I don't wear designer logos on my regular clothes, so I sure as hell don't want a logo on my combat uniform. It is modeled very nicely :)

The pocket has a zipper on the side instead of the normal velcro top-opening flap. I'm sure this makes it easier to access in armor, but opening a zipper when your hands are frozen can be an exercise in frustration. Add a pair of gloves, and the pocket could be useless.

The ACU pattern stands out like a neon light in the Georgia woods. The only place I think it would work in the US is the OK panhandle and Southwest Kansas... it would fit right in with the greyish sagebrush and buffalo grass.

As an aside, is there any place that still sells the sateen OG 107 jungles, all I can find are OD BDU's?

[jatx]

I'm sure this makes it easier to access in armor, but opening a zipper when your hands are frozen can be an exercise in frustration. Add a pair of gloves, and the pocket could be useless.

I think the new shirt is only intended for warm weather wear, when the ACU coat is too hot under armor. In cold weather, I expect we'll still wear the regular ACU coat, since you can place layers underneath it. This new one looks too form-fitting to make layering effective.

[Sionnach]

I think the new shirt is only intended for warm weather wear, when the ACU coat is too hot under armor. In cold weather, I expect we'll still wear the regular ACU coat, since you can place layers underneath it. This new one looks too form-fitting to make layering effective.

Thanks for the heads-up, jatx. I've never worn the ACU or the new body armor, so I didn't know what I didn't know.

[lksteve]

Time for our regular mention of how great it was having the OG 107 jungles for all field environments amen...it faded to a nice, non-descript hue...and when worn sans patches and badges was a functional uniform in garrison and field...
The ACU is a disaster, and matches very little, other than as jammies on floral patterened sofas. doesn't match my sofa...thankfully...

[longtab]

I had the privilege of bumping into CSM Mellinger (the current MNF-I CSM and long-time Ranger Regiment legend) at a facility we were both visiting at the same time. He made an effort to reacquaint himself with me after being a few years removed. Or perhaps for my awesome in-all-forms-of-the-word awesome hair while wearing ACU’s. Once pleasantries were exchanged I noticed his PSD were all sporting the Crye shirts and trouser. And with the exception of the faggoty advertisement and ACU pattern the outfit rocks. But poor love-handle sporting bastards will look like Chris Farley (may he rest in peace) in a spandex bodysuit. I’ll let that thought settle with you..................

Okay… I talked to his PSD (I think he likes “Pacific Islanders” because there wasn’t one hauli on the detail) and they all love ‘em. Comfort, fitment, fire resistance, the whole shebang. Ummmm…. But I’m leaning towards something in more of a Multicam pattern.

[rtsoldier]

Don't want to steal the thread from anyone but just wanted to add this new top is a good change for uniforms. I work at the Army Burn Unit with many of the Burn Docs that have been pushing for this to be made, its shown great potential in testing. Hopefully it will make a difference in all the Soldiers getting burned.

[groundup]

I had the privilege of bumping into CSM Mellinger (the current MNF-I CSM and long-time Ranger Regiment legend) at a facility we were both visiting at the same time. He made an effort to reacquaint himself with me after being a few years removed. Or perhaps for my awesome in-all-forms-of-the-word awesome hair while wearing ACU’s. Once pleasantries were exchanged I noticed his PSD were all sporting the Crye shirts and trouser. And with the exception of the faggoty advertisement and ACU pattern the outfit rocks. But poor love-handle sporting bastards will look like Chris Farley (may he rest in peace) in a spandex bodysuit. I’ll let that thought settle with you..................

Okay… I talked to his PSD (I think he likes “Pacific Islanders” because there wasn’t one hauli on the detail) and they all love ‘em. Comfort, fitment, fire resistance, the whole shebang. Ummmm…. But I’m leaning towards something in more of a Multicam pattern.I was just wondering about name and rank placement. It really annoys me that they put out the black fleece without name and rank. Now they are putting out the green/gray one that has nametapes. I wonder if they are going to do the same with this shirt. Especially since it is apparently being worn without body armor.

[SITH]

Pete
Who liked the old gray sweats, cheap and long lasting.


Anything that took over from the bananasuit was welcomed.

[Pete]

Anything that took over from the bananasuit was welcomed.

You're showing your age SITH. A few years prior to the bannana suit COL Bynam, the 5th Group CO, got everybody a snappy black track suit. It had white stripes on the sleeeves and legs with a 5th Group Logo in the left breast area. Sharp looking. Second and third orders were without the logo.

Alas, it didn't do well under PT and looked pretty shabby after a while.

About the same time I think the 7th was running around in a green track suit. But they had the same problems.

[The Reaper]

Anything that took over from the bananasuit was welcomed.

Yeah, but you didn't need a reflective belt with it.:D

I tried to get one made in E Tae Won with an Elvis cut, high collar, and rhinestones, just to wear to PT one time, but decided that I probably wouldn't get to 20 years of service doing things like that.

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

I was just wondering about name and rank placement. It really annoys me that they put out the black fleece without name and rank. Now they are putting out the green/gray one that has nametapes. I wonder if they are going to do the same with this shirt. Especially since it is apparently being worn without body armor.
Why do you care about name and rank so much?

[Kyobanim]

Doesn't have name tape on it though.

[huzza]

I never understood the transition from the Desert storm choclate-chip DCU's to the current ones, and especially not the new ACU uniform; which clearly only provides camoflouge for hideous furniture, and baby excrement. The only particular disadvantage I see to the new uniform is often times layering is needed, regardless of how hot it may seem; because tempatures often drop in the middle of a mission as night falls. I would not want my gunner to suddenly drop down, and act as if his turret is a dressing room; seemingly ignoring the prescient mission at hand, and creating danger for everyone participating in it. Velcro is also an innately bad idea, I can account for at least one time when the magazine pouch on my weapon had become so corrupted with sand that the seal broke, and my magazine plunged into the blue depths of the port-a-john.

regards,

George

[82ndtrooper]

At least Kyobanim didn't add in some UDT shorts with that "Tropcial" issue shirt of his :eek:

[NousDefionsDoc]

I wear UDT shorts every morning for PT. 'sup?

[x SF med]

NDD- the same ones you were issued at prephase?;) Have you washed them yet?:eek:

[82ndtrooper]

I wear UDT shorts every morning for PT. 'sup?

NDD:

Go to any bar near Va Beach, Little Creek AB and tell any single woman that your going to be doing PT in UDT shorts. It's a sure bet she'll show up to watch you do your thing. What you do after that is your business. ;) :munchin

[NousDefionsDoc]

NDD- the same ones you were issued at prephase?;) Have you washed them yet?:eek:
Nope. I haven't had a waist that size for a couple of decades now. Now days my PT is for myself and I rely on my charm and sense of humor for other things...;)

[Monsoon65]

Doesn't have name tape on it though.

I kinda like that shirt.

[lksteve]

Now days my PT is for myself and I rely on my charm and sense of humor for other things...any port in a storms...:p

[LibraryLady]

Anything that took over from the bananasuit was welcomed.

Aww, man... did ja haveta go and bring THAT up?

I've been assured there were two sizes, too small and too big.

Unfortunately for me - there was just one size, too big! :rolleyes:

LL

[kachingchingpow]

Moc turtle necks do suck, unless you're going for that business but casual look in a jacket and slacks. The parks and rec department changed our football coaching uniforms last year, and adopted a moc-neck loose fitting Under Armour shirt. Most irritating shirt I've ever put on. Particularly when I didn't feel like shaving on game day. Neck stubble, moc's and synthetic shirts don't mix.

[ccrn]

We were issued a trail version of this uniform shirt, minus the ACU type sleeves, for vehicle operations.

They did seem a little cooler but at 130F it didnt make much of a difference. Nobody that was issued them liked them much.

As for the ACU, we hated them. Poorly designed and made and easily damaged.

Another problem with the ACU was they are designed to be washed by hand in cold water then air dried. As some might know there is no cold water in Iraq (accept dead of winter) so the hook and loop fasteners melt making them worthless.

I wish we could go back to a OG107 type uniform but it will never happen-

[groundup]

Why do you care about name and rank so much?"Good morning... uhh..." "Hey! You! In the camoflauge!" Those don't go too well when you are walking around in a building.

When an NCO/officer passes by or enters in a room/building you are supposed to call the people in the room to at ease/attention. How would you know that unless you know their rank?

When passing an officer or NCO you are supposed to give the greeting of the day. How would you do that without knowing their rank?

When you are looking for someone in particular, how would you know who they are without their names? In my case, CPT X tells me to get SGT Y. I don't know who CPT X is, but I know he is in charge of something in HQ. I don't know who SGT Y is, but I know LT X wants him. So, I go running around trying to find SGT Y, asking people for him. Then I tell him that this CPT wants to see him. "Which CPT". Damn, how would I know that? He is always wearing that stupid fleece jacket. Now I have to say that I don't know, but he should come with me anyway. So, we go back and we both get an ass chewing for not being there faster.

The PT uniform irks me too. There should be some kind of rank on it. Got in to a bit of hot water when I didn't realize I was standing in front of the JTF command staff with a couple BGs, COLs, CSM, SGM, and everything in between for the Army's birthday run. Dumb PFC (me at the time) gets told by 1SG to go up there with SFC H as the youngest and oldest Soldiers. Well, SFC H wasn't running so he didn't go up there. So I walk up there and stand there as the General gives a speech. I didn't get chewed out, but I was standing there at ease with a BG in front of me and he was just shootin' the shit.

First/second day of basic training, one of the Privates in my PLT was on CQ. Someone comes walking up to his desk in PTs and just stands there. He starts fuddling with the CQ log and blocking his view of the hallway. PVT says "wtf are you doing?" Low and behold, it was the CO of our company. Gets an Article 15.

[NousDefionsDoc]

"Good morning... uhh..." "Hey! You! In the camoflauge!" Those don't go too well when you are walking around in a building.

When an NCO/officer passes by or enters in a room/building you are supposed to call the people in the room to at ease/attention. How would you know that unless you know their rank?

When passing an officer or NCO you are supposed to give the greeting of the day. How would you do that without knowing their rank?

When you are looking for someone in particular, how would you know who they are without their names? In my case, CPT X tells me to get SGT Y. I don't know who CPT X is, but I know he is in charge of something in HQ. I don't know who SGT Y is, but I know LT X wants him. So, I go running around trying to find SGT Y, asking people for him. Then I tell him that this CPT wants to see him. "Which CPT". Damn, how would I know that? He is always wearing that stupid fleece jacket. Now I have to say that I don't know, but he should come with me anyway. So, we go back and we both get an ass chewing for not being there faster.

The PT uniform irks me too. There should be some kind of rank on it. Got in to a bit of hot water when I didn't realize I was standing in front of the JTF command staff with a couple BGs, COLs, CSM, SGM, and everything in between for the Army's birthday run. Dumb PFC (me at the time) gets told by 1SG to go up there with SFC H as the youngest and oldest Soldiers. Well, SFC H wasn't running so he didn't go up there. So I walk up there and stand there as the General gives a speech. I didn't get chewed out, but I was standing there at ease with a BG in front of me and he was just shootin' the shit.

First/second day of basic training, one of the Privates in my PLT was on CQ. Someone comes walking up to his desk in PTs and just stands there. He starts fuddling with the CQ log and blocking his view of the hallway. PVT says "wtf are you doing?" Low and behold, it was the CO of our company. Gets an Article 15.
Walking around in a building? IT'S A COMBAT SHIRT!



Now hush.

[pbr549xxx]

I can see it now. You going to the range at Bragg or any other post and you will have to attach your ACU top to the back of your FLC with boot blousers to change into once youve taken off you body armor LOL.

[The Reaper]

Ah, yes.

The good old, "Wear your helmet for the jump, and bring your BDU caps and berets as well. Once we get on the DZ, don berets for the ceremony, then put your BDU caps back on for the ride back into main post."

SF battalion, all formed up, berets donned. CSM who put out the directive standing up front, K-Pot on his head. Put his beret in his cargo pocket, and it blew out during his shitty exit.

Been there, done that.

Hey, NDD.

You know the Fobbits will have them long before the teams do.

TR

[Pete]

.... when I didn't realize I was standing in front of the JTF command staff with a couple BGs, COLs, CSM, SGM, and everything in between for the Army's birthday run. Dumb PFC (me at the time).....

Son, if you're in the Army and standing in a group of old looking, gray haired, somebody pissed in my cornflakes, mean looking kinda' guys you better believe you're standing in a group of 1SGs, SGMs, CSMs, LTCs and COLs, mix and match whatever combo.

In that case Parade Rest and a lot of "Yes, Sir - No, Sir's" will get you by until notified of real identities.:D A good clue is look at body language as you walk up to a group. The pack circles the big dog.

Pete

[groundup]

NDD: the ACU is a combat uniform. BDU is a battle uniform. Everything we wear, barring the beret, is meant for combat.

Pete: heh, yeah. I try not to even get in to those situations. If I have to, I try to figure out who everyone is before hand.

[Monsoon65]

You know the Fobbits will have them long before the teams do.

If the Army is anything like the AF when it comes to things like this, you know there will be a line of people waiting outside clothing sales the day they go on sale.

[Go For Broke]

NDD: the ACU is a combat uniform. BDU is a battle uniform. Everything we wear, barring the beret, is meant for combat.

Pete: heh, yeah. I try not to even get in to those situations. If I have to, I try to figure out who everyone is before hand.


Maybe I'm lucky...but I know whom my boss is...whom my boss' boss is...etc...on sight. I generally do not wait to find out that they still outrank me like they did yesterday and the day before...

As long as you are generally respectful, you have no worries.

WRT ACU / BDU -

IAW my govt issued Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary -

1 bat-tle 1: a general encounter between armies, ships of war, or airplanes 2: a combat between two persons
2 battle 1: to engage in battle : FIGHT

1 com-bat to engage in combat: FIGHT ~ vt 1: to fight with : BATTLE
1 com-bat 1: a fight or contest between individuals or groups 2

So...really, what's the difference, especially if everything we wear is meant for combat.

Not trying to be a technical definition guy, just trying to point out that it (battle / combat) is just a word...move on. Remember, the idea of a specific uniform designation as battle or combat (BDU / ACU) is a relatively new term (BDU in the late '80s and ACU in mid 2000). Prior to that, it was the OG-107s...

Just my $0.02.

V/R,

[The Reaper]

Prior to that, it was the OG-107s...

Actually, the OG 107 "Coat (or Trousers) Man's, Cotton WR Poplin "Ripstop," OG 107", and Camouflaged Jungle Fatigues were a limited issue item. The actual predecessor to the BDU was the Perma-Press and cotton sateen versions of the fatigues; i.e., "Shirt (or Trousers), Man's, Utility Poly/Cotton, Durable Press, OG 507". With the cotton versions, you had to break starch at least once a day to look "Strac".

TR

[JGarcia]

Ah Starch! I remember picking up my BDU's over in Germany from the cleaners on the economy, putting them on monday morning - sleeves and pant legs literally 'peeling' apart as legs and arms went inside. What a dog and pony show we were back then! Field BDU's vs. Garrison BDU's! ~ good times...

I really think it's a shame that the Army seems to be implementing Crye's design one little bit at a time, rather than embracing Crye's design and camo patterns right from the git go. This is right off of Crye's drawing board, minus the zipper. I hope they'll copy Crye's boonie cap design too. I do like this combat shirt, and I'd be happy to have it. I suppose it won't be long until the Army has the combat trouser (from Crye) as well.

I have got four gripes with the ACU, the camo pattern, crotch of the trousers blowing out, the shirt I think is too short (if you tuck it in when wearing IBA for a fight, it will often come untucked - I know it's not authorized), the rule forbidding sew on qual badges. I don't mind the velcro, I wonder if zippers might be better?

As far as not having name tapes or tags, you can always address an unknown person as "Soldier," or "Soldiers" whatever the case may be. If they outrank you and want to make sure that you are aware of that, they'll tell you so. You can't go wrong calling someone "Soldier." But as NDD said, It's a COMBAT SHIRT! Of course the Army and its culture is what it is, and weird things will happen. Semper Gumbi.

[groundup]

NG_M4_Shooter: True, now that we have moved from the BDU in all branches I can call Soldiers and Marines as such. I used to call everyone troop if I didn't know their branch/rank because I was surrounded by all of the branches. You can call everyone in the AF "Sir" and get away with it. Try calling a Chief in the Navy anything other than Chief and they get pissy. That is for another time though.

Hopefully the combat shirt will be for the field and most commanders won't authorize it for garrison wear. Unlikely, but I can hope.

Go For Broke: being surrounded by General staff did make me a lot more aware of the people around me. A PFC straight from basic - I did make sure to watch my Ps & Qs. Thankfully, I am much more aware of the people around me now :)

[jwt5]

Hopefully the combat shirt will be for the field and most commanders won't authorize it for garrison wear. Unlikely, but I can hope.



In my limited experience, it's not that the Commanders fail to put the information/policy letters out, it's the soldiers that fail to listen.

Just like when they issued the fleece top en masse.....

[Capt_G]

I was at DLI during the death throws of the Banana suit. I had one but never wore it. Too hot for Monterey. The reversible Tshirts were cool. The shorts sucked bad tho. What is it with PT uniform sizing?

[sg1987]

I was at DLI during the death throws of the Banana suit.

Ahhhh the old banana suit…..I remember watching the fat guys doing remedial PT runs in the suit. 1700 , July, Ft. Benning – guaranteed to help “drop the weight”:D

[HALO99]

we suffer the same predicament here in PH army. we are issued the DPM-style rip-off uniforms with shades that are a tad too dark for the southeast asian terrain. much more when they are soaked in sweat they look black from a distance. they only blend when a person wearing it wears a tree trunk.

like you guys, PH sof are given a more relaxed space when it comes to uniforms when going on missions. what we commonly use are surplus u.s. army lightweight woodland BDU. one of the greatest things yanks have made. we buy a set of these surplus BDUs at the former Clark airbase here. superior in terms of comfort, durability, the most "invisible" camo pattern in our terrain day or night, and in all weather conditions. Yank advisers here wear the multicam, a bit bright during the rest of the southeast asian season except summer (april and may).

woodland camo is still very nice here in the southeast asia.

[smoothisfastsea]

+1 on that sir

________

This urgent calling of nature longs to be tested, seeks to be challenged beyond itself.

The warrior within us beseeches Mars, the god of War, to deliver us to that crucial battlefield that will redeem us into the terrifying immediacy of the moment. We want to face our Goliath so we maybe reminded that the warrior David is alive in us. We pray to the war gods to guide us to the walls of Jericho so we may dare the steadfastness and strength of our trumpet call. We aspire to be defeated in battles by powers so much greater than ourselves, that the defeat itself will have made us larger than when we arrived. We long for the encounter that will ultimately empower us with dignity and honor...

Be not mistaken: the longing is there and it's loving and terrible and beautiful and tragic.

- Richard Strozzi Heckler

[PRB]

Ok, get a haircut, trim that mustache...hey Elvis lose the sideburns...fasten those chin straps and blouse your freakin boots correctly...oh yeah, and that blouse belongs under you BA so change shirts of put a freakin vest on!!!
How's that.

[stfesta]

Logo does look gay but, it don't matter none because PBO's gonna have us all out of war real soon.

I am not so sure about those two "non-wars". Will they be authorized there?

A quick shout out for the OG 107's. How great were they?

sf

[Dozer523]

A quick shout out for the OG 107's. How great were they? sfSeriously great! I loved em and miss them dearly.

[mojaveman]

A quick shout out for the OG 107's. How great were they?

Still have a few pairs in the garage.