Congress Reaches Deal in Schiavo Case

[AngelsSix]

What do you think in this case?? I think that Congress is WAY overstepping their boundries. On the other hand, I think the husband is shamless for having carried on the way he has.

Michael Schiavo's story

This really makes me mad:
Michael Schiavo has a common law marriage with another woman who has borne him at least two children, Schindler said. ``He's breaking his wedding vows by living with another woman.''

What bothers me about the whole thing is given the evidence, he has done this for years to kill his wife so that he could have his life with his other family. Seems like a form of legalized killing to me....

[Doc]

I think the court should allow her parents to take care of her.

[Kyobanim]

After following this case for years, I think that everyone should get the hell out of it and leave him be. The Florida congress and and now the national congress are stepping way out of bounds on this one. 9 courts have already heard this case and every one of them has sided with the husband. The Supreme Court didn't even want to hear it after that.

He's turned down millions of dollars to give over custody to her parents. He's not doing this for the money, he's doing it because he loves his wife and it's what his wife wanted. If he wanted the money he could have cut and run a long time ago. The husband is shameless? I think not. If I ever end up like that I hope my wife has the courage to carry on like that on my behalf.

Shes' brain dead for christ's sake! Who do you think is going to pay to keep her alive for the next 20 or 30 years? Her parents? Think again.

==From the Orlando Sentinel==

I received an avalanche of e-mail about Terri Schiavo. The bad information going out on this case is amazing.

What is real and what is not?

For answers, I turned to University of South Florida professor Jay Wolfson. He was appointed as a guardian ad litem for Terri in 2003 and prepared a report on her for Jeb Bush.

After a judge dismissed him in December of that year, Bush and Terri's parents -- Bob and Mary Schindler -- requested he stay on as Terri's guardian. Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo, opposed the request.

Wolfson's report is based on court files, depositions, medical records and interviews with everyone involved.

That said, I begin with the most explosive allegation:

Did Michael try to kill Terri?

Wolfson laughs. "No!"

In 1990, Terri went into cardiac arrest, which shut off oxygen to her brain. A potassium imbalance, perhaps caused by an eating disorder, triggered the attack.

Has Michael withheld treatment?

Wolfson's report states that in the four years after her collapse, Michael "had insistently held to the premise that Theresa could recover and the evidence is incontrovertible that he gave his heart and soul to her treatment and care . . . In late autumn of 1990, following months of therapy and testing and formal diagnoses of persistent vegetative state with no evidence of improvement, Michael took Theresa to California, where she received an experimental thalamic stimulator implant in her brain. Michael remained in California caring for Theresa during a period of several months."

Says Wolfson now: "Michael was adoring of her. One nursing home complained he was hostile and abusive of the staff in championing her care. She was immaculately kept. In 13 years, she never had one bedsore."

Is Michael after her insurance settlement?

Wolfson's report says that early on, Michael "formally offered to divest himself entirely of his financial interests in the guardianship estate."

Why doesn't Michael simply turn Terri over to her family?

From the report: "Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive . . . at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open-heart surgery. Within the testimony, as part of the hypothetical presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it."

Wolfson told me that when Michael heard this, he said: "That's it. I'm never going to let that happen to her."

Wolfson says the Schindlers later recanted their testimony.

Can Terri recover?

"Theresa's neurological tests and CT scans indicate objective measures of the persistent vegetative state," the report says. "These data indicate that Theresa's cerebral cortex is principally liquid, having shrunken due to the severe anoxic trauma experienced 13 years ago."

To read the entire report online, go to OrlandoSentinel.com/schiavo.

[QRQ 30]

A few thoughts. I have no intention of arguing this case.

Terri is not on life support as such. Starving is a long, slow painful process. That isn't what I call "dieing with dignanty". Even convicted criminals get a quicker less painful death through lethal injection.

Congressmen are representatives. That is our way of government - elect people to represent our desires. If you don't think you are being properly represented, tell the people who count, your representative. He depends on your vote!

[Smokin Joe]

This is a perfect examply why I have a living will, a Do Not Resusitate(sp), and all of my family members know my wishes if I ever become brain dead or otherwise.

Like The Reaper said, "Take care of your affairs....."

Either way its a shitty situation.

[NousDefionsDoc]

If they are going to do it, they should do it, not let her starve.

[QRQ 30]

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

If they are going to do it, they should do it, not let her starve.

Agreed, but then they'll have to let Kevorkian out.

Smokin Joe, a living will is getting to be a must. Unfortunately this is not a simple DNR case. Terri is breathing on her own and not on life support.

[Kyobanim]

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

If they are going to do it, they should do it, not let her starve.

That would be nice, but that's another right the government has taken away from the people.

I've written a living will and passed it out to the wife, son and his wife, sister and brothers and have told countless friends of my wishes. I don't want to end up like this.

[brewmonkey]

Kyo I disagree with you. If he truly loved her he would have kept his vows. Instead he has run off with another women and started another family. He is also not the primary care giver and from most of the reprts I have seen he spends minimal time at the hospice and it is indeed her parents that are caring for her.

The only people to testify that they heard her mention about not being maintained in a situation like this are his family, none of hers. However there has been testimony from her family that she had an express wish to not have any life support removed. They had been discussing Karen Ann Quinlan and she made the comment. She is also a devout Catholic and follows the church doctrine. There is no doubt in my mind that she would not have expressed those wishes to her husbnd as he claims.

He has also not won every court battle, just the ones where they had the same judge over and over again. There were indeed rulings in favor of not removing the feeding tube.

The sad thing is that they remove the tube and it takes 2 weeks for her to die. How is that not murder? We execute prisoners more humanely then she is being treated and that is sad.

Let her parents care for her.

Oh yes, as far as not accepting money. That might be true but he will also not divulge if e has any life insurance on her and if he does how much it might be.

Then there is the fact that you do not "just get" an ED. Something brings it on and my guess is it has something to do with him.

[brewmonkey]

Originally Posted by Smokin Joe

This is a perfect examply why I have a living will, a Do Not Resusitate(sp), and all of my family members know my wishes if I ever become brain dead or otherwise.

Like The Reaper said, "Take care of your affairs....."

Either way its a shitty situation.

Agreed. This is something my wife and I have discussed ad nauseum.

However with this poor women she has the ability to breathe on her own and her heart beats on it's own. She is not technically on life support and there is no "plug" to pull. This is one of those things that if you have a DNR does it truly cover something like this? It's a tough call.

[Kyobanim]

And this is humane?

"From the report: "Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive . . . at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open-heart surgery. Within the testimony, as part of the hypothetical presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it."

RE the painful death: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,7617250.story

Terri Schiavo eventually will slip into a coma and die after her feeding tube is removed.

It might take days. Or weeks.

Someone with very little brain function such as Schiavo will have no awareness of what is happening as she slowly dies from dehydration.

It is the lack of water -- not food -- that causes death in these cases, said Dr. Chad Kollas, medical director of palliative care for Orlando Regional Healthcare. As the body thirsts, it stops functioning properly.

"Even a healthy person cannot live more than several days without water," Kollas said. "You'll become less and less alert, blood pressure will drop, and essentially, you'll just fade away."

Officials with hospice organizations -- groups that care for dying patients -- say they have treated many terminal people who have chosen to stop nutrition and water. The dying do not experience pain from the lack of nutrients and fluids, said Linda Freda, community-education coordinator for Hospice of the Comforter in Altamonte Springs.

Many will have pain from other conditions, such as end-stage cancer, that need to be treated with pain medications. But the withdrawal of nutrition does not typically require additional pain relievers.

"I can tell you what we know from dealing with dying individuals is that these patients do not report pain or suffering or thirst or hunger," she said. "Eventually, they drift into a coma, and they can die quite comfortably."

Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, do not agree with these views, arguing that the removal of her feeding tube is painful and cruel. In a letter last year to Gov. Jeb Bush, a lawyer for Schiavo's parents wrote that dying by dehydration makes death in the electric chair look like an "act of compassion."

But many in the medical community say that isn't the case.

"I personally don't think this is a very painful way to die," said Dr. Anthony Douglas, a Florida Hospital internal-medicine specialist who practices in Winter Park. "People just feel more and more sleepy and exhausted" as time goes on.

Douglas said within days of stopping fluids, people begin to suffer from an imbalance of sodium in their systems. Without water, sodium levels rise in the body and trigger an even greater demand for fluids. When none is available, the organs stop working properly. Brain cells will perish; the kidneys will shut down.

Death may come in a week, or perhaps a little longer. The progression is highly individualized, said Ellen Bristol, director of access and admissions for Hospice of Lake & Sumter.

She said hospice workers care for patients by making sure they are comfortable, often providing ice chips or moisture around the mouth to relieve the sense of dryness.

Understandably, it's very difficult for people to watch a loved one slip away from them, she said.

"People in this country are making these kinds of decisions day after day in nursing homes and hospitals," Freda, of the Altamonte Springs hospice, said. "It's one of the hardest things for a family."

---------------------------------------

9 different courts have ruled in the husbands favor. that's every court the case has been brought too.

Think about this, do you tell your spose more than you tell your parents, or, would you tell your parents everything you tell your spouse, honestly. If it's going to upset your parents you probably wouldn't say anything to them.

I'm sick of hearing about this case, I'm sick of the government getting involved where they don't belong, I'm sick of the government wasting my tax dollers legislating a single bill just for this one person.

Her ceribral cortex is liquid, let her die.

[brewmonkey]

Sorry I just don't buy in to doctors who say that "she wont feel anything" because they are only making assumptions. Not one of them has ever been in her situation or one even similar to it. There are documents provided by health care officials tht show Terry has responded to stimulus, smiled and even cried. While she may not be 100% functional I have no doubt that she feels pain.

[Ambush Master]

Originally Posted by brewmonkey

Sorry I just don't buy in to doctors who say that "she wont feel anything" because they are only making assumptions. Not one of them has ever been in her situation or one even similar to it. There are documents provided by health care officials tht show Terry has responded to stimulus, smiled and even cried. While she may not be 100% functional I have no doubt that she feels pain.

She won't feel a thing if they choose to dope her out !!!

[brewmonkey]

Some facts about Terri. Since Kyo called this a permenant vegitative state I did some looking around and found that it is incorrect in reference to her.

· Terri Schiavo is not a “vegetable,” she is not “brain dead,” and she is not in a persistent vegetative state. She recognizes and responds to others and makes attempts to verbally communicate. Videos and the truth about her condition is available at BlogsforTerri.com and terrisfight.org.

· Terri is not on life support but does receive food and water through a removable tube, which experts testify would not even be necessary if she were given therapy. This assisted feeding is a natural means of preserving life and not a medical act of life support or heroic measures.

· Twelve medical experts and nurses who cared for her confirmed these facts. Video available through BlogsforTerri.com shows Terri responding and interacting with others. Health care workers have testified under oath that she expresses herself using words, such as “mommy” and “help me”. This evidence was not allowed in court by Judge Greer.

· Terri is a person with disabilities who thinks and expresses her moods and desires. She is loved by her family and responds to their visits with smiles and laughter.

· Terri Schiavo may be the victim of ongoing negligence and injustice. She has been denied therapy and rehabilitation by her guardian since 1991. Florida’s guardianship laws REQUIRE that these necessary services be given to her.

· In 1992, Terri’s husband Michael won $1.7 million in negligence lawsuit under the pretext of funding her rehabilitation and care. He testified, “I believe in the vows that I took with my wife. Through sickness, in health, for richer or poorer. I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that.” Since that time, Terri has received no rehabilitation, all beneficial forms of stimulation (e.g. music) have been prohibited and basic health care, such as treatment for a life threatening urinary tract infection, has been purposefully withheld at Michael’s direction.

· Even though Terri’s husband has started a family of his own with another woman and their two children, he refuses to end his marriage to Terri or relinquish her care to her immediate family.

· Terri’s “collapse” has become controversial after a previously unavailable bone scan surfaced in 2002 which revealed multiple fractures consistent with a traumatic event. To date, no investigation has been conducted to determine the source of Terri’s injuries, but a radiologist gave a sworn statement that the date of those injuries would fall within the period of her mysterious collapse.

· Remarkably, The Florida Courts have sided with Michael, accepting the testimony of two “expert witnesses”, one of whom is a known advocate of “mercy killing”, over that of twelve independent medical professionals (6 of them neurologists).

· Without intervention by the Florida Governor and Legislature, Judge George Greer is set to give Michael the legal empowerment to withhold food and water from his wife for the purpose of starving her to death.

· Terri Schiavo deserves to have medical tests and therapy. She does not deserve to be starved and dehydrated to death.

· Advancements in the understanding of brain activity and misdiagnosis and the recent recovery of a patient after 20 years in a persistent vegetative state, further calls into question any decision that would end the life of Terri Schiavo.

As I said before, she has laughed, smiled and cried. Those are not the reactionsod someone who is brain dead or in a permenant vegitative state.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by brewmonkey

Some facts about Terri. Since Kyo called this a permenant vegitative state I did some looking around and found that it is incorrect in reference to her.

As I said before, she has laughed, smiled and cried. Those are not the reactionsod someone who is brain dead or in a permenant vegitative state.

Not picking sides Brew, or looking for an argument, but those are very biased sources.

The other side has just as compelling evidence that her cerebral cortex; which would be required for thought, self-awareness, and intentional action is damaged, non-functional, and atrophied irreparably.

Sometimes I think that the kids' goldfish is smiling and trying to tell me something too, but that doesn't make it intentional, or indicative of anything other than my desire to see something where it isn't.

TR