Thoughts on Glucosamine and Chondroitin?

Spartan74 · 12-30-2004, 22:06

What's the concensus on using Glucosamine and Chondroitin as a preventative measure ? Never taken it myself but do have some friends that swear by it. Thanks.

ccrn · 01-03-2005, 15:13

The Arthritis Research Center of Canada (ARC) has finished a six month double blind study that has shown no long term benifits of Glucosamine and chondroitin.

Also there has been a long term study of about two or three years called GAIT (Glucosamine/Chondroitin Arthritis Intervention Study) here in the USA that is being peer reviewed. I believe it might be the only true scientific study done besides the ARC study regarding these two supplements.

The EU has had studies that supposedly showed promising results however the doses used there are higher from what is used in American OTC doses. Also, no offense intended, at least one EU study has been discredited in the area of heart research recently.

Other problems with Glucosamine and Chondroitin are dose consistancy, label misrepresentation, and even impurities. Why it is that pharmaceuticals are held to such a high standard by the public yet these OTC's are not is beyond me.

On a personal level, as I type this, my wife who is a DC tells me that her subjective observations of her pt's are that neither of these two supplements are efficacious-

FWIW

Spartan74 · 01-03-2005, 16:34

Thank You CCRN.

The Dave · 01-04-2005, 16:03

I've been taking Glucosamine & Chondroitrin for about 2 months now, maybe a little longer. It seems like it almost took me this long to feel any beneficial effects from it, and yet, its minimal. If you take a liquid dose of it, it supposedly works a bit faster than the pill form. I started taking it, because my knees were giving me some trouble.

I believe what I'll be doing, instead of continuing to take this, is just go see a physical therapist, and see whats wrong with my running form, if thats the cause of the pain. I'll see if I can find an interesting article I read on this when I get home, and post it up.

ccrn · 01-05-2005, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dave

I believe what I'll be doing, instead of continuing to take this, is just go see a physical therapist, and see whats wrong with my running form, if thats the cause of the pain. I'll see if I can find an interesting article I read on this when I get home, and post it up.

For sure see a sports physiologist about not only your running form but your feet. Some feet are very fliexible and need support and others are not and only need cushioning. Also some runners overpronate or underpronate and need some form of motion control shoe. Foot width will also be a consideration. An experienced physiologist who also runs will be familiar with shoe brands and will be able to recommend.

A physical therapist will be able to help you with asymmetries and muscle weakness and or stiffness.

All of these can hinder performance especially when trying to achieve a certain level within a certain time increasing risk of injury (mostly over use injury of the knees).

A good running shoe store with experienced runners as sales persons can be valuable too.

If all this is old hat my apologies

FWIW

The Dave · 01-05-2005, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccrn

For sure see a sports physiologist about not only your running form but your feet. Some feet are very fliexible and need support and others are not and only need cushioning. Also some runners overpronate or underpronate and need some form of motion control shoe. Foot width will also be a consideration. An experienced physiologist who also runs will be familiar with shoe brands and will be able to recommend.

A physical therapist will be able to help you with asymmetries and muscle weakness and or stiffness.

All of these can hinder performance especially when trying to achieve a certain level within a certain time increasing risk of injury (mostly over use injury of the knees).

A good running shoe store with experienced runners as sales persons can be valuable too.

If all this is old hat my apologies

FWIW

Great info!! I appreciate it. I've already had some good luck with insoles, but it doesn't help all the way. So a physiologist is who I shall go see. Again, thank you.

**Bill Harsey** · 01-08-2005, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccrn

The Arthritis Research Center of Canada (ARC) has finished a six month double blind study that has shown no long term benifits of Glucosamine and chondroitin.

Also there has been a long term study of about two or three years called GAIT (Glucosamine/Chondroitin Arthritis Intervention Study) here in the USA that is being peer reviewed. I believe it might be the only true scientific study done besides the ARC study regarding these two supplements.

The EU has had studies that supposedly showed promising results however the doses used there are higher from what is used in American OTC doses. Also, no offense intended, at least one EU study has been discredited in the area of heart research recently.

Other problems with Glucosamine and Chondroitin are dose consistancy, label misrepresentation, and even impurities. Why it is that pharmaceuticals are held to such a high standard by the public yet these OTC's are not is beyond me.

On a personal level, as I type this, my wife who is a DC tells me that her subjective observations of her pt's are that neither of these two supplements are efficacious-

FWIW

If my memory serves, these supplements were first proven on horses for whom which the placebo effect is kinda hard to make happen.

Six months is not a very long study for soft tissue damage repair.

My next question is "peer reviewed" by whom? Think about this one before answering.

An observation I would make is this, because one area of study by the EU has been discredited then all areas of study by same are no longer valid? We could then throw out much of what any given area of science has concluded.

That last word is kinda big for a knifemaker...

CPTAUSRET · 01-10-2005, 15:57

I have sustained various injuries over the years, broken neck, broken back, GSW's, a few edged weapon wounds, etc, etc. Traumatic Arthritis is what I am told I now have...I take the stuff (G and C), and Nancy does too. Is it subjective that I feel better, who knows?

But I used to take 800mg Motrin 4 times daily, I did so for maybe 20 years, now I do not. Ibuprofen is not good for you at that level over the long term, in fact that is now an illegal dosage for long term use.

Terry

**Bill Harsey** · 01-10-2005, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET

I have sustained various injuries over the years, broken neck, broken back, GSW's, a few edged weapon wounds, etc, etc. Traumatic Arthritis is what I am told I now have...I take the stuff (G and C), and Nancy does too. Is it subjective that I feel better, who knows?

But I used to take 800mg Motrin 4 times daily, I did so for maybe 20 years, now I do not. Ibuprofen is not good for you at that level over the long term, in fact that is now an illegal dosage for long term use.

Terry

Terry, Is this after you got married?

I can't quite match that pedigree but have had some pretty good injuries from the 10 seasons I spent logging here in Oregon. All I know about the stuff is that before I started taking it, I couldn't sleep thru the night because of knee pain, for several years. (all this after a major surgery to try and repair several things at once) If I stop for a period of time, the pain creeps back in and I start waking up in the middle of the night thinking "this sucks". I just returned from a 15 mile bicycle ride in below freezing weather and my knees are fine at the moment. I can't prove the stuff works but like you I've quit buying advil by the case.

CPTAUSRET · 01-10-2005, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Terry, Is this after you got married?

I can't quite match that pedigree but have had some pretty good injuries from the 10 seasons I spent logging here in Oregon. All I know about the stuff is that before I started taking it, I couldn't sleep thru the night because of knee pain, for several years. (all this after a major surgery to try and repair several things at once) If I stop for a period of time, the pain creeps back in and I start waking up in the middle of the night thinking "this sucks". I just returned from a 15 mile bicycle ride in below freezing weather and my knees are fine at the moment. I can't prove the stuff works but like you I've quit buying advil by the case.

"Terry, Is this after you got married?"

Bill, that's funny!

Nancy has had two spinal fusions of her lower back so she is also lives with pain, and subjectively she feels better with the G and C.

Terry

**Ambush Master** · 01-10-2005, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Terry, Is this after you got married?

If I stop for a period of time, the pain creeps back in and I start waking up in the middle of the night thinking "this sucks". I can't prove the stuff works but like you I've quit buying advil by the case.

Same here. Close to 1K Parachute Jumps and being seriously pounded into the ground way too many times, I'm amazed that I can still walk. What got me started taking it was my thumb joints started to lock up on occasion. A friend suggested it because they had been giving it to their Lab Retriever and he had improved dramatically after about a month. I've been taking it for about 10-12 years and everything works fine !!! Like Bill, if I lay off of it for a few days I start to feel things that are not pleasant.

Martin

CPTAUSRET · 01-10-2005, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambush Master

Same here. Like Bill, if I lay off of it for a few days I start to feel things that are not pleasant.

Martin

I will agree with that also.

Terry

BadMuther · 01-10-2005, 21:35

Capt. Terry, I was advised to give it to one of my dogs, because she had a REALLY hard time walking. She was damn near crippled. I was told it takes a while to work.

I gave it to her and after awhile she made a decided improvement. Not perfect, but hey. I switched brands and after about a month on the new stuff she was jumping around like a fricking puppy. She's done great ever since. In my mind it's a fricking miracle combo. My dog is a brand new dog-in fact she acts like such an idiot jumping around some times that I'm scared she's going to hurt herself.

Give it a try-allow at least 2-3 weeks for it to get in your system. I was also advised never to miss a dose, or it takes awhile for it to build back up in your system.

Good luck.

CPTAUSRET · 01-10-2005, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadMuther

Capt. Terry, I was advised to give it to one of my dogs, because she had a REALLY hard time walking. She was damn near crippled. I was told it takes a while to work.

I gave it to her and after awhile she made a decided improvement. Not perfect, but hey. I switched brands and after about a month on the new stuff she was jumping around like a fricking puppy. She's done great ever since. In my mind it's a fricking miracle combo. My dog is a brand new dog-in fact she acts like such an idiot jumping around some times that I'm scared she's going to hurt herself.

Give it a try-allow at least 2-3 weeks for it to get in your system. I was also advised never to miss a dose, or it takes awhile for it to build back up in your system.

Good luck.

BadMuther:

Roger, the above. There have been a couple of times when we were travelling, and I forgot to pack enough for the trip, consequently I was able to compare being on, and off the stuff. I am a believer...

Terry

**Ambush Master** · 01-10-2005, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET

BadMuther:

Roger, the above. There have been a couple of times when we were travelling, and I forgot to pack enough for the trip, consequently I was able to compare being on, and off the stuff. I am a believer...

Terry

Ditto to this !! I have traveled extensively for the past 30+ years and since I started taking it, I can tell the difference. Also, I started taking MSM in addition, about a year ago, and it has made it work even better !!

Later
Martin