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Obama Allows Assassination of US citizens Anywhere in the World
Old 02-05-2013, 12:24   #1
Brush Okie
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Obama Allows Assassination of US citizens Anywhere in the World

THe liberals were always talking about how Bush infringed on peoples rights yet this memo allows no due process and vague reasons for killing US Citizens. I dont see any potental for abuse at all.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/o...-politics.html

Quote:
Does President Barack Obama have the right to order the assassination of an American anywhere in the world—without any oversight from Congress or the courts, and even if that U.S. citizen is not actively plotting a specific terrorist attack? His administration, in a stunning Justice Department memo laying out a broad legal rationale for the country's ever-expanding drone war, says yes.

The 16-page document, obtained by NBC News, emerged days before John Brennan, Obama's chief counterterrorism adviser and the foremost architect of America’s hugely controversial unmanned aerial vehicle war, goes before the Senate Intelligence Committee in a Thursday hearing on his confirmation as CIA director.

Obama campaigned in 2008 as a fierce critic of George W. Bush’s national security policies, but he has apparently learned to stop worrying and love nearly unfettered executive power—the literal power of life and death over fellow U.S. citizens overseas thought to be consorting with extremists groups that may be targeting America. So, under what circumstances does he have the right to act?

The memo says “an informed, high-level official of the U.S. government” must decide that the target is a "senior operational leader" of al-Qaida or "associated forces," “poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the United States,” and that an attempt to capture that individual is “infeasible.”

Targeting a member of an enemy force who poses an imminent threat of violent attack to the United States is not unlawful. It is a lawful act of self-defense,” the document asserts.

"Imminent threat"? That seems reasonable and is a traditional standard for military action. Except that, as NBC investigative reporter Michael Isikoff notes, the memo adds that “the condition that an operational leader present an ‘imminent’ threat of violent attack against the United States does not require the United States to have clear evidence that a specific attack on U.S. persons and interests will take place in the immediate future.”

Instead, that previously mentioned "high-level official" can determine that the potential target was “recently” involved in “activities” posing a threat of an attack and that “there is no evidence suggesting that he has renounced or abandoned such activities.”

Isikoff notes the memo does not define "activities" or "recently," leaving that up to the administration to determine on a case-by-case basis.

The memo notes that the president can order a strike against al-Qaida far beyond the battlefield of Afghanistan, and it makes clear that he will not be constrained by national sovereignty. Either a country will give the green light to drone strikes on its territory, or America will strike if that country is "unable or willing" to do so.

This is no surprise. Obama famously said in the 2008 campaign that he would order an attack inside Pakistan to get Osama bin Laden, whether or not Islamabad signed off. He made made good on that promise, ordering the raid on bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, on May 1, 2011, which killed the terrorist leader.

The memo is sure to trigger another round of questions from Congress about the drone war, which has been shrouded in secrecy. And it comes at a time when that campaign is powerfully unpopular overseas, according to a June 2012 Pew Research poll. While 62 percent of Americans approve of the approach, 44 percent of respondents in staunch ally Britain do. And the numbers plummet in countries with large Muslim populations: 6 percent in Egypt, for instance, and 9 percent in NATO ally Turkey.

That's in part the reflection of anger over civilian casualties from such attacks. Obama has grappled with that problem ever since the very first drone strike on his watch, a Jan. 23, 2009, attack that reportedly claimed the life of "an innocent tribal elder" in Pakistan. A May 2012 New York Times report said that the administration minimizes civilian casualties by counting "all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants."

The memo drew a withering response from the American Civil Liberties Union.

“This is a profoundly disturbing document, and it’s hard to believe that it was produced in a democracy built on a system of checks and balances,” said Hina Shamsi, director of the ACLU’s National Security Project. “It summarizes in cold legal terms a stunning overreach of executive authority—the claimed power to declare Americans a threat and kill them far from a recognized battlefield and without any judicial involvement before or after the fact.”
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Assassination
Old 02-05-2013, 12:47   #2
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Assassination

Got this in an email:

For those of you who might not know who Rachel Maddow is, she's to the left of the left, but this is a video worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mPZlysCAm0
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Plop
Old 02-05-2013, 12:53   #3
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Plop

Any American that plops their ass down in a jihadie camp and starts spouting "I'm going to kill Americans" deserves a missile up their ass.

Well, OK, we'll just say we were targeting the guy sitting next to him.

It's a long way from a jihadie sitting in Somalia to Joe Six Pack sitting in his back yard in Hope Mills.
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Old 02-05-2013, 13:03   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR2 View Post
Got this in an email:

For those of you who might not know who Rachel Maddow is, she's to the left of the left, but this is a video worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mPZlysCAm0
Doing all this under the guise of the rule of law...
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Old 02-05-2013, 13:47   #5
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I'm with Pete. Being an American citizen shouldn't be a "home-free" against getting a JDAM in your ass when you declare war against the United States. Don't want to get killed? Don't become a combatant against your country.
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Old 02-05-2013, 13:53   #6
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The point is due process. Do you trust the Obama administration (or any administration, for that matter) to be responsible for which US citizens get the JDAM and which don't?
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JDAMs in Paris
Old 02-05-2013, 14:05   #7
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JDAMs in Paris

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjefe View Post
The point is due process. Do you trust the Obama administration (or any administration, for that matter) to be responsible for which US citizens get the JDAM and which don't?
Don't think we're dropping too many JDAMs in Paris - or London - or Berlin.

So I'm guessing the average American Tourist is pretty safe.

Now if the tourist is into a little adventure living and just happens to be sitting at a council meeting in Afghanistan and a JDAM gets dropped into the fire - Oh, well!

Sorry, I don't think it's a fine line we're talking about here - the difference between an anti American hater in some third world jihadie camp and Joe Six Pack in his back yard in Hope Mills. I think the line is more like a supper wide highway.
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Old 02-05-2013, 14:14   #8
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Everybody in here (almost) talks about the slippery slope. You're right, they aren't dropping JDAMs in Paris or Berlin. But they never leap from one thing to another. it happens over long periods of time in little steps. Just like gun control.
I would worry that 100 years from now, they might be willing to drop JDAMs on us. You think they wouldn't if they took a dislike to you? Look at Ruby Ridge and Waco.
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I looked
Old 02-05-2013, 14:26   #9
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I looked

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjefe View Post
......You think they wouldn't if they took a dislike to you? Look at Ruby Ridge and Waco.
I looked - the Feds got away with them also.

So they've done it here and gotten away with it. That is a fight that's been going on a long time.

So maybe it's really "Since we do it here why can't we do it overseas?"

I have no problem with our government toasting (a)merican jihadies overseas.
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Old 02-05-2013, 14:43   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
I looked - the Feds got away with them also.

So they've done it here and gotten away with it. That is a fight that's been going on a long time.

So maybe it's really "Since we do it here why can't we do it overseas?"

I have no problem with our government toasting (a)merican jihadies overseas.
Today it's Americans with AQ. Tomorrow it's Americans with the FARC. The next day it's Americans with any terrorist group. Then it's Americans with Transnational Organized Crime. Etc, etc.

I think you either believe in Due Process or you don't.
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Old 02-05-2013, 14:44   #11
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I think the bigger concern is that as we see the use of drones being used CONUS, they will begin to be armed. You know, just in case. If the government decided that a group or individual is in support of a terrorist organization or plot they can kill them without due process.

Personally I'm ok with the first stipulation, if an American citizen is a known operational leader or part of al-Qaeda they get whacked. No questions. It's the "associated force" wording that concerns me.
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Old 02-05-2013, 14:47   #12
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Imagine if they could have just used a drone strike on the Hutaree 'militia'....The FBI never would have been embarrassed by all the acquittals.....

Should that be in pink?
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I do
Old 02-05-2013, 14:48   #13
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I do

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjefe View Post
.......I think you either believe in Due Process or you don't.
I do - and if they want it they can bring their ass over here and get it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 14:55   #14
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That's more like it!
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I've said it before...
Old 02-05-2013, 14:59   #15
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I've said it before...

While he was politically astute to leverage the 2002 midterms to limit congressional debate, President Bush would have served the interests of the nation better had he insisted upon a wide ranging congressional debate over the proper use of the tools of war against a nebulous foe.
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