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Top U.S. general slams idea of carpet bombing ISIS
Old 02-02-2016, 10:09   #1
Brush Okie
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Top U.S. general slams idea of carpet bombing ISIS

This political ass hat says we have the moral high ground. Does this dumb ass have any real clue about what these animals do. After all we cant be to violent when killing bad guys. With spineless managers like this limp dick no wonder we are getting anyplace against ISIS. Then again he is following the lead of the commander and chief.

Perhaps he is just stating what he was told to say and eating a shit sandwich, but I am not impressed with his little speeech on American Values, espically in light of what is considered acceptable these days.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/02/politi...ump/index.html

Quote:
Washington (CNN)The top U.S. commander for the fight against ISIS on Monday slammed the idea of "carpet bombing" the terror group.

Army Lt. Gen. Sean MacFarland, who directs the coalition fighting ISIS in Iraq and Syria, provided the most detailed military criticism to date about the concept and detailed why it's militarily unacceptable.

"Indiscriminate bombing where we don't care if we are killing innocents or combatants is just inconsistent with our values," he said in response to a question from CNN on the possibility of using carpet bombing.

Though MacFarland didn't mention any political candidates by name in his answer, Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas while on the campaign trail has called for employing the practice against ISIS.
Lt. Gen. Sean MacFarland is introduced as the new commander General of the US led coalition in Iraq on October 1, 2015 in Baghdad, Iraq.
Lt. Gen. Sean MacFarland is introduced as the new commander General of the US led coalition in Iraq on October 1, 2015 in Baghdad, Iraq.

"We are the United States of America, and you know we have a set of guiding principles and those affect the way we, as professional soldiers, airmen, sailors marines conduct ourselves on the battlefield," MacFarland said at a news conference from his Baghdad headquarters held before the Iowa caucuses. "We are bound by the laws of armed conflict. And you know at the end of the day, it doesn't only matter if you win, it matters how you win."

READ: Reality Check: Cruz on carpet bombing

MacFarland noted that the Russians have been accused of indiscriminate bombing, killing large numbers of civilians in northwest Syria.

"Right now we have the moral high ground and I think that's where we need to stay," he said.


The notion of defeating ISIS by massive imprecise bombing in Iraq and Syria has been brought up several times during the Republican presidential race, with Cruz a particular advocate for the approach.

At December's GOP debate, CNN's Wolf Blitzer asked Cruz: "You have said you would, quote, 'carpet bomb ISIS into oblivion,' testing whether, quote, 'sand can glow in the dark.' Does that mean leveling the ISIS capital of Raqqa in Syria, where there are hundreds of thousands of civilians?"

Cruz responded, "What it means is using overwhelming air power to utterly and completely destroy ISIS."

He also said, "You would carpet bomb where ISIS is -- not a city, but the location of the troops. You use air power directed -- and you have embedded special forces to (direct) the air power. But the object isn't to level a city. The object is to kill the ISIS terrorists."

He then referred to the Persian Gulf War with roughly 1,100 air attacks a day.

"We carpet bombed them for 36 days, saturation bombing, after which our troops went in and in a day-and-a-half mopped up what was left of the Iraqi army," he said.


But military analysts note that the first Gulf War was the beginning of the growing use of precision-guided weapons. And in that war, unlike the fight against ISIS, the U.S. was going against Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's large numbers of conventional armed troops in the field -- readily detectable targets separate from civilian populations.

Cruz was asked again about the idea in the Fox News debate last week, answering, "You know, you claim it is tough talk to discuss carpet bombing. It is not tough talk. It is a different, fundamental military strategy than what we've seen from (President) Barack Obama."

Fellow Republican candidate Donald Trump, for his part, has said that he would kill the families of terrorists in order to win the fight against ISIS.

"When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families," Trump told Fox News in December.

Trump said he would "knock the hell out of" ISIS, and criticized the U.S. for "fighting a very politically correct war."
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:54   #2
sg1987
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Perhaps West Point and Georgia Tech skipped over Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki during the General's education? (So much for" in it to win it")
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:14   #3
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Originally Posted by sg1987 View Post
Perhaps West Point and Georgia Tech skipped over Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki during the General's education? (So much for" in it to win it")
Maybe because words matter the Department of Defense should go back to the name War Department. Haven't won a war since the name change. The concept of no non-combatant casualties makes it impossible to win. The current and I suspect the last Administration does not consider logistics personnel (fuel truck drivers) a valid target. Johnson and Nixon were no better with their refusal to cut rail and sea resupply to Uncle Ho.
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Old 02-02-2016, 23:18   #4
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Until our national leaders establish a long term post-ISIS strategy we're accomplishing nothing more than putting our warriors at risk. We're dabbling in strategy-free warfare as a nation, while brothers in arms are flying daily combat missions risking their lives. Carpet bombing or otherwise, what's the long term goal? Whirled peas?

Do the politicians seriously think once ISIS and Al-Assad are gone a rainbow farting flying unicorn will spread happy thoughts and hugs across the middle east? Of course the Russians are there now, so they'll bring stability...what could go wrong?
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Win the battle, but lost the war ?
Old 02-03-2016, 00:19   #5
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Win the battle, but lost the war ?

IMHOO, LTG MacFarland knows what he's doing. I would posit that he did learn about Dresden, Tokyo, etc. as well as proportionality as guideline in war
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmJDj-oLYyM

If we are for indiscriminate bombing, why not go all the way to nuke?
After all we would then fully fall into the Islamic State playbook of total us-against-them. Scheuer's Imperial Hubris comes to mind if we truly decide to solve the IS/muslims/Islam/ME problem with violence alone. Once and for all, we destroy all credibility to disengage/deradicalize those prone to leaving the jihadist cause and serve as counter narrative ammo. IMHOO, IS's COG is not in personnel, or cash, or weapons, but in the propaganda of perceived grievances. Giving that COG more legitimacy only strengthens their cause and advance their front on the battlefield of the minds of billions muslims and non-muslims.

FWIW, I am committed to support and defend the U.S. Constitution against all odds till the end, whatever that may be. With Russia's playing the moral (low) ground, they become more of a target than us. I see another Beslan in the making.
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Last edited by frostfire; 02-03-2016 at 00:27.
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Old 02-03-2016, 08:45   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfire View Post
Once and for all, we destroy all credibility to disengage/deradicalize those prone to leaving the jihadist cause and serve as counter narrative ammo. IMHOO, IS's COG is not in personnel, or cash, or weapons, but in the propaganda of perceived grievances. Giving that COG more legitimacy only strengthens their cause and advance their front on the battlefield of the minds of billions muslims and non-muslims.
You have mentioned the concept of 'deradicalizing' jihadis in previous posts as if it is a foregone conclusion that this is a successful strategy. If the jihadis were truly 'hijacking' Islam and a counter-narrative was offered that was accepted by the authorities on Islam (Al Azhar University), deradicalization might be successful. On a very limited scale.

How do you propose to counter the Koran and the hadith, considering that Muslims consider the Koran the inviolable word of Allah and Mohammed the perfect man?

Given the millions of 'radical' muslims (fundamentalists) within Islam, IMO, the idea of deradicalization is simply a feel-good idea that will never succeed. It probably briefs well, though.
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Last edited by SF-TX; 02-03-2016 at 09:06.
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:12   #7
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I know McFarland. He was the JTFN Commander as a BG. He is one of those officers that believes he is the smartest person in the room and knows everything about everyone else's specialty better than them.
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Old 02-03-2016, 17:23   #8
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He is an ASS.
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Old 02-03-2016, 17:27   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SF-TX View Post
You have mentioned the concept of 'deradicalizing' jihadis in previous posts as if it is a foregone conclusion that this is a successful strategy. If the jihadis were truly 'hijacking' Islam and a counter-narrative was offered that was accepted by the authorities on Islam (Al Azhar University), deradicalization might be successful. On a very limited scale.

How do you propose to counter the Koran and the hadith, considering that Muslims consider the Koran the inviolable word of Allah and Mohammed the perfect man?

Given the millions of 'radical' muslims (fundamentalists) within Islam, IMO, the idea of deradicalization is simply a feel-good idea that will never succeed. It probably briefs well, though.
I think we are in agreement. Yes it is limited. Yes, not everyone makes de-radicalization candidate. At the very least, disengagement is a more feasible aim. I am arguing against any policy that eliminates that tool from our tool box. Having said that, there's never been more reforming voices within Islam than in last 2 decades as terrorism in its name spreads. FWIW, ISIS make muslims take a hard look at their religion and decide if that's they want to be associated with. Out of topic, but I know two Muslims in Bragg area who left Islam and accepted Christ


Thank you for highlighting al azhar, it made me read some more on it
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-11-1...ists-apostates
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nati...e24783019.html
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"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4

"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins

"Aide-toi, Dieu t'aidera " Jehanne, la Pucelle

Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.

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Need Heavy Bombers
Old 02-04-2016, 21:29   #10
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Need Heavy Bombers

I can remember nothing more beautiful than watching a B-52 cell go to work!
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