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Pistol holsters, defensive Vs. Offensive
Old 07-10-2011, 12:56   #1
Team Sergeant
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Pistol holsters, defensive Vs. Offensive

Thigh holsters model names amuse me..... even more amusing is referring to them as , "Tactical".

Offensive Vs. Defensive mindset and training.

Defensive mindset: Thigh holsters that "defensively" retain the weapon in case of a wrestling match between "Civilian" Law Enforcement and bad guys.

Offensive mindset: The only retention system is one that will retain the weapon while running, jumping etc. such as the Eagle SAS Mark V Airborne Holster

This is a tactical holster. It's not made of a hard plastic that makes noise when you brush up against a hard surface nor will your weapon get jammed in because of a malfunction of some spring meant to release the retainer arm.

I shoot with Law Enforcement officers all the time, none, not one has yet to beat me out of the holster using their "defensive rigs".

Safety for speed = Defensive mindset.

If you read my sig line you will notice the word "safety" is not one of the operating principles.......

TS
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Old 07-10-2011, 13:00   #2
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Roger that. The safest guy is the first one to put rounds on target.
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Old 07-11-2011, 15:37   #3
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Agree.
Law enforcement officers are much more likely to get in a rassling match over a holstered handgun.
In real combat you usually get to shoot the bad guy before he gets that close.
In law enforcement that results in lots of paperwork, hence the "security" holster.
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I disagree TS
Old 07-14-2011, 12:32   #4
C0B2A
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I disagree TS

Soft fabric holsters are a thing of the past as far as I am concerned. The rigidness of kydex is needed (especially for re-holstering your pistol to quickly get your main gun up). Drawing from a friction retention kydex holster is much faster for me (and I would bet 99% of people) than the sloppy feel of a fabric holster, that in order for it to secure the pistol it needs to cover so much of the gun.

I agree that when you incorporate a push button or lever on the holster for retention it does slow down the draw stroke, but when you are doing CQC and start tangling up with dudes in a room that retention is welcome. I am a big fan of Raven style holsters for friction retention only and Safariland ALS. (non over the top hood type) As far as sound, it is to easy to modify equipment to make sure you are not rattling around.

Down range I use my safariland. With the threat of IED's and the situation I listed above, a good amount of retention is needed. I've seen pistols and rifles for that matter go flying when a vehicle is hit.

I took a few quick pictures as to the different holsters I use.
1st picture is of my IWB holster, 2nd is my daily OWB for walking around firebase or whatever. 3rd is of my ALS which allows me to run a x300 surefire on the glock as well. The 4th is a new deal that raven came out with. Info here I have used it with 26 for concealment here in the NC summer heat and it has been great thus far.
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:49   #5
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Quote:
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Soft fabric holsters are a thing of the past as far as I am concerned.
A thing of the past and you employ a single action glock?

Young Jedi you still have much to learn.
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:58   #6
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The Eagle holster is very similar to the Blackhawk Omega VI, except the Eagle has the extra strap which is nice. I like mine for some uses but have taken off all of the straps and by using computer case carrying straps made it into a bandolier holster so the weight is on my shoulder and the pistol is butt forward under the weak side elbow. This keeps it out of the way of my rifle or bow while I am hunting and the cordura makes no noise there.

I tired hunting with it in the drop leg configuration and all it did was let the pistol grip get banged every minute or so by my bow and the one thing you cannot tolerate is noise when bowhunting. Kydex would be a disaster for me bowhunting.

For competition I used it twice and had some bad habits which the range officers didn't like. I had gotten used to using my off side hand to reach around and hold the thumb break strap open while holstering the gun. This results in sweeping that hand. While I didn't personally mind doing that, it caused the ROs to caution me several times. Competition is so "stylized" for safety purposes that it has little bearing on combat. I also got cautioned for carrying the pistol at port arms.

Running recon, I carried a 1911 in a "gunslinger" leather holster with a hammer thong. It rode down where a modern drop leg now rides. I think I bought it in Chu Lai at one of the local shops and the leather was only partially cured and once it got wet, it and the pistol molded together very well. Being as the 1911 was the third from last resort (knife being next to last and running being the last resort, although sometimes it was the first resort), draw speed was not terribly important.
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Old 07-14-2011, 13:06   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Sergeant View Post
A thing of the past and you employ a single action glock?

Young Jedi you still have much to learn.
It's what we are using now days. I would love it if we were using some HK goodness but such is life. I think Glock's are great though, 100x better than the m9. Glock hasn't let me down.
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Old 07-14-2011, 13:54   #8
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Everybody just go with whatever Myke Hawke's using...
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EIS: Eagle Industries Serpa!
Old 07-14-2011, 22:03   #9
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Talking EIS: Eagle Industries Serpa!

Here's a pure heresy to keep you amused, TS

After my sidearm fell out while sprinting after reholstering, I opted for a more aggressive retention. With some redneck engineering, I merged my eagle industries thigh holster with....BH serpa! It works! Of course, only mall-ninja-ing activity over here
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Old 07-14-2011, 23:42   #10
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I carried a Canadian canvas holster for large frame handguns for many years.

Soft and quiet, brass button snap. Not one problem with dirt, mud, jungle leaves, low crawl, jumping, running, swimming, etc.

I opened the stitching on the back portion: placed needles, fishing hooks, line, re-sewed, giving me "another" stash location.
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Old 07-15-2011, 18:43   #11
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Not one problem with .... swimming,
The water stuff was really a bitch and a half. I lost the shack codes in a stream crossing one day and they threatened to take away my clearances and make me assistant S4 in the rear. I never lost the shack codes again.
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Old 07-15-2011, 20:00   #12
adal
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Since before I met TS (1st time on a team), I've had an Eagle Mark V. Never had an issue at all, never had a problem putting it back. I am still a fabric and leather kind of guy. While kydex is cheap and star wars sexy, the sand, water, retention screws etc are still an issue for me. Numerous jumps, runs, swims, getting out of vehicles in Iraq, africa, Thailand etc. Never had a single loss, miss draw, nuthin. Muscle memory is what makes it. I still have mine and will not get rid of it. Fits my HK USP too.

I like the bandoleer usage. Gonna try that with my motorcyle. Hmmm
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Old 07-15-2011, 22:39   #13
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fabric and leather....
Yup, kind of takes stupid out of the equation.
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Old 07-16-2011, 10:28   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfire View Post
Here's a pure heresy to keep you amused, TS

After my sidearm fell out while sprinting after reholstering, I opted for a more aggressive retention. With some redneck engineering, I merged my eagle industries thigh holster with....BH serpa! It works! Of course, only mall-ninja-ing activity over here
So you're telling me you are the one that I would have to check twice to make sure you have your grenades stored properly?

I like to ensure my gear is on correctly before I sprint.

I have Eagle holsters that are older than many on this board, never had a weapon fall out. I like "quiet" holsters.

As a young private, I did lose a knife once on a jump, taught me a valuable lesson.
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:22   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfire View Post
Here's a pure heresy to keep you amused, TS

After my sidearm fell out while sprinting after reholstering, I opted for a more aggressive retention. With some redneck engineering, I merged my eagle industries thigh holster with....BH serpa! It works! Of course, only mall-ninja-ing activity over here
Just an observation. Why not buy a leg platform that is designed for the SERPA? Just sayin'. Definately redneck mall ninja action with this one.
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