State proposes legislation making it illegal for doctors to ask about gun possession

[PedOncoDoc]

Link to story

New measure would bar doctors from asking patients if they own guns

TALLAHASSEE — Doctors and other medical providers in Florida would be barred from asking patients — or the parents of child patients — if they have guns in their home under a measure that promises a major showdown between powerful lobbying groups.

The National Rifle Association’s top Florida lobbyist and a Florida Medical Association member both say the issue is among the top priorities for the upcoming legislative session, with the groups holding diametrically opposed positions on what doctors and their patients and families should be allowed to discuss during a medical visit....

The bill is short (just over 2 pages), with a link to it in the story above.

This is a terrible idea IMHO - gun rights activists are going too far and making a bad name for themselves with this proposed legislation. The only part I agree with is preventing a health care provider from refusing to provide care if someone does not answer their inquiries about firearm use.

When practicing general pediatrics I always asked about the presence of firearms in the home. If someone answered yes, I asked how they were stored and asked if there were 2 responsible people in the home who could clear the weapon (in case it was accidentally left out and the owner was not at home.) I had many women agree that they shouldn't view the family firearm(s) as "dad's guns - I leave them alone", and many were appreciative that I encouraged them to learn how to safely handly the guns that were in their homes.

Psychiatrists have to be able to assess a potentially suicidal/homicidal patient's ability to cause bodily harm. Preventing this line of inquiry is also asinine. This proposed law would have preventing a psychiatric from asking jerkoff who went on the shooting spree if he owned guns. If brought to a psychiatrists attention earlier enough, he would not have been legally able to purchase guns and would have to have gotten them through other means which would've helped keep the call for more laws/restrictions from the gun control libs in check.

(On a side note, I believe the college that told the AZ shooter not to come back without a mental health professional's declaration that he is not a threat to himself or others was criminally negligent in not calling for a emergency mental health if they felt strong enough to ask him to leave their school.)

[Pete]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

........This is a terrible idea IMHO - gun rights activists are going too far and making a bad name for themselves with this proposed legislation.........................

Do you ask the same about alcoholic drinks in the home? Are there? Under lock and key or just stored in the cabinet?

Do you demand a list of the meds the parents are on and where / how they are stored?

Or is it just firearms?

Edited to add - I forgot about 5 gal Utility buckets. Do you ask if there are any of them in the home? In ground pools - ask about them?

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

When practicing general pediatrics I always asked about the presence of firearms in the home. If someone answered yes, I asked how they were stored and asked if there were 2 responsible people in the home who could clear the weapon (in case it was accidentally left out and the owner was not at home.) I had many women agree that they shouldn't view the family firearm(s) as "dad's guns - I leave them alone", and many were appreciative that I encouraged them to learn how to safely handly the guns that were in their homes.

WERE DID YOU GET TO BE JUDGE & JURY,, or the authority to be one of big sis's squealers??

Unless there is a weapon present or a wound, you have no reason to grill your patients about their personal possessions.

Do you have a sing on your door warning all who enter that you are collecting personal info for the TSA???

Asking anyone for personal info when they a hurt, sick, and vulnerable is wrong..

Sorry Doc, you may THINK you play God,, but you are not an LEO, Judge, nor jury..

The fact that the left has enacted laws to encourage you to do any collecting is totally wrong.

Not your job...

RANT OFF..

[PedOncoDoc]

I wasn't expecting such a strong adverse reaction to this post.

Originally Posted by Pete

Do you ask the same about alcoholic drinks in the home? Are there? Under lock and key or just stored in the cabinet?

Do you demand a list of the meds the parents are on and where / how they are stored?

Or is it just firearms?

Edited to add - I forgot about 5 gal Utility buckets. Do you ask if there are any of them in the home? In ground pools - ask about them?

I never asked for a catalog of firearms - just if all adults present in the home could make the firearms safe should one accidentally be left out.

I did ask about the storage of medications, alcohol and toxic cleaners/substances, as well as the presence of swimming pools and water/drowning safety (yes, this does include discussion of standing water in buckets and other containers) - but never cataloged any of them.

Now that I am out of primary care, I no longer deal with these issues, but I enjoy the discussion here.

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

WERE DID YOU GET TO BE JUDGE & JURY,, or the authority to be one of big sis's squealers??

Unless there is a weapon present or a wound, you have no reason to grill your patients about their personal possessions.

Do you have a sing on your door warning all who enter that you are collecting personal info for the TSA???

Asking anyone for personal info when they a hurt, sick, and vulnerable is wrong..

Sorry Doc, you may THINK you play God,, but you are not an LEO, Judge, nor jury..

The fact that the left has enacted laws to encourage you to do any collecting is totally wrong.
Not your job...

The inquiries only came during routine care of well children when we assess their development and environment, and provide immunizations- never during sick/urgent visits.

Please help me understand your comments about being a "squealer" or "collecter" - none of the discussions are reported to anyone, and, to my knowledge, there is no law encouraging or requiring any line of inquiry. I also do not feel it appropriate to make any of the above questions illegal.

I always felt that encouraging any responsible person who had a gun in their home to seek out training to safely and effectively handle/use said weapon was a good thing.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

........I always felt that encouraging any responsible person who had a gun in their home to seek out training to safely and effectively handle/use said weapon was a good thing.

Do you advise those with pools to get water safety instruction from the local Y or Red Cross?

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/children.htm

Child mortality in the US covers a lot of causes - and at a quick read the Firearms stats are broken down into three broad areas - accident, self inflicted and crime.

We can discount crime in our talks - and suicide? People can find a way with anything.

So if we focus just on accidents its after vehicle accidents and right in the middle of the pack on the other accidents.

The point being - why is the government involved in the questioning about firearms?

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

When practicing general pediatrics I always asked about the presence of firearms in the home. If someone answered yes, I asked how they were stored and asked if there were 2 responsible people in the home who could clear the weapon (in case it was accidentally left out and the owner was not at home.) I had many women agree that they shouldn't view the family firearm(s) as "dad's guns - I leave them alone", and many were appreciative that I encouraged them to learn how to safely handly the guns that were in their homes.

If you want to put up posters, have hand outs available in the office or put on seminars on gun safety that is fine, but I don't believe it is any of my Doctors business if I do or don't own firearms....or hi-cap mags, rounds of ammo in my possession, number of weapons, caliber of weapons, knives in my possession......or anything else for that matter.

For all I know your adding the information to to my patient file, which may or may not be added to a database of which insurance companies may use to make policy and adjust rates.

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

Psychiatrists have to be able to assess a potentially suicidal/homicidal patient's ability to cause bodily harm. Preventing this line of inquiry is also asinine. This proposed law would have preventing a psychiatric from asking jerkoff who went on the shooting spree if he owned guns. If brought to a psychiatrists attention earlier enough, he would not have been legally able to purchase guns and would have to have gotten them through other means which would've helped keep the call for more laws/restrictions from the gun control libs in check.

Maybe. They may have just prescribed mind altering drugs and told him to come back for a follow up in 2-3 weeks.

And even if had been adjudicated as mentally ill, instead of buying his pistol at Sportman's Warehouse and ammo at Walmart, the crazy man would have procured it illegally in a back alley and the results would have been the same.

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by Pete

The point being - why is the government involved in the questioning about firearms?

My point exactly - I believe there shouldn't be laws encouraging for forbidding the process.

ETA: Also, I asked the parents who brought the child to the check-up if they were comfortable handling the firearm, if they replied anything other than a confident, "yes" I merely suggested the parents should consider getting some training.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

My point exactly - I believe there shouldn't be laws encouraging for forbidding the process.

.....or mandating it.

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by Paslode

And even if had been adjudicated as mentally ill, instead of buying his pistol at Sportman's Warehouse and ammo at Walmart, the crazy man would have procured it illegally in a back alley and the results would have been the same.

Agreed - the tragedy probably would not have been averted. However, the gun control pols would have a weaker argument to further their cause for more restrictions.

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by Pete

.....or mandating it.

Again - we agree on this one. I also never had a problem with anyone telling me it was none of my business if they own firearms or not. I would simply then tell them that if there were, I would recommend making sure all adults in the house be familiar with the firearms and how to safely handle them.

The pediatrician that prompted the debate in Florida was wrong IMHO. You cannot deny medical care or tell someone to seek care elsewhere because you don't agree with their lifestyle or views. Imaging the same scenario, except replacing the reasons for denying care "gun owner" with "(insert religion of choice here)" - you would have a lawsuit on your hands faster than anything.

[Deadhead 63A1]

I'd have collected my son, walked out of your office, and found another provider if you'd have asked me a question like that, Doc. You wouldn't have appreciated my verbal response either.

[Sacamuelas]

I agree with one particular aspect of the proposed law. IMO, I think it is a terrible precedent to set for the future that lawmakers are now regulating speech between a doctor/patient.

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

The only part I agree with is preventing a health care provider from refusing to provide care if someone does not answer their inquiries about firearm use.

IMO, Restricting conversation, felonies, fines, etc are WAY over the top for simply asking questions and inquiring about environments. They should have focused on punishing practitioners if they refuse care or discriminate.

THis is a classic example of the failure of a professional board to perform its duty and self regulate its profession. If the profession won't regulate itself, then lawmakers have no choice to step in to the debate. Of course, lawmakers have NO medical training or experience so you end up with laws like the above.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

..... I would simply then tell them that if there were, I would recommend making sure all adults in the house be familiar with the firearms and how to safely handle them............

I asked you about pools a few posts above. You didn't respond other than to say you asked.

Estimates place weapons in far more homes than pools yet accidental firearms deaths and drownings are similar in statistics. That would place pools as a far greater danger to children than firearms.

I ask if you spend as much time talking with the parents about pool safety - equipment, training, security, etc as you do firearms - if not more?

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

Agreed - the tragedy probably would not have been averted. However, the gun control pols would have a weaker argument to further their cause for more restrictions.

That might depend on how they spin it.

Unfortunately if the Pro-Gun folks give 1 inch, the Anti-Gunners will try to take a mile or two. So today the Doc is just asking a question, tomorrow he is adding to a data base, then the insurance companies take advantage of the information, then DHS, then TSA, etc. etc.

It is a a evil road to travel.

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by Pete

I asked you about pools a few posts above. You didn't respond other than to say you asked.

Estimates place weapons in far more homes than pools yet accidental firearms deaths and drownings are similar in statistics. That would place pools as a far greater danger to children than firearms.

I ask if you spend as much time talking with the parents about pool safety - equipment, training, security, etc as you do firearms - if not more?

I apologize for not addressing your question about pools. I did ask about pools and also about pool safety. We discussed the potential safety benefit of fences and having having safety devices present. As I am unaware of formal pool safety courses outside of lifesaver courses I did not inquire further.

You make a good point about the number of drowning and firearm deaths. In the region in which I worked previously there were very few families with pools, so this topic tended not to come up very often.