Special Forces beret flashes

[Combat Diver]

Originally Posted by Richard

Actually - COL Guest wanted the RVN era colors out of the 5th SFGA flash.

RE: 5th SFG flashes:

• The original 5th SFG flash was all black in 1961.
  
• The 2nd pattern black w/white border (added in 1962) flash was worn but not officially authorized until 1964.
  
• First pattern USASFV (Prov) flash (never authorized) prior to 5th SFG deployment was all yellow with three diagonal red stripes.
  
• The 3rd pattern 5th SFG flash was the black w/white border and diagonal yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow stripes denoting (a) colors of original USASFV flash, (b) colors of early TDY teams from 1st and 7th SFGs and (c) RVN flag.

On 7 Dec 84 COL James Guest, 5th SFG CDR, submitted a request to the Director, Institute of Heraldry, requesting that the official flash of the 5th SFG be changed back to the solid black with white border because:

• The colors of a foreign flag should not be incorporated in a US Army beret flash
• The RVN and the original purpose for having the RVN colors in the flash no longer existed
• The 5th SFG was no longer oriented towards SEA
• The mission and organization of the 5th SFGA had been significantly transformed to meet modern requirements and the change of beret flash would depict that metamorphosis

The request was approved by the Institute of Heraldry on 16 Jan 85.

* Sutherland, Ian. Special Forces of the US Army; 1990.

Richard's $.02

5th Group didn't official change until later that spring of 85' (Apr or May). I had been assigned to C/1/5 in Dec 84 with the old RVN flash and was one of 20 folks from 1/5 to stand in the formal flash changing ceremony later that spring. Ceremony was conducted in front of the "Bronze Bruce Statue". We wore the old flash, than was given the command to "Uncover", heritage read then commanded to "Recover" Later in June I went to CDQC with the new flash.

[Irishsquid]

Don't know if it's correct or not, but I'm told that 20th SFG(A) used to have a solid blue flash. The diagonal red stripe was "awarded," by 7th SFG(A) as they are the active duty component responsible for the same AOR/mission.

Once again, I don't know if it's true or not...that's just how it was explained to me. Seemed strange, since that would mean 19th and 20th Groups had the same flash before...

Originally Posted by Irishsquid

Don't know if it's correct or not, but I'm told that 20th SFG(A) used to have a solid blue flash. The diagonal red stripe was "awarded," by 7th SFG(A) as they are the active duty component responsible for the same AOR/mission.

Once again, I don't know if it's true or not...that's just how it was explained to me. Seemed strange, since that would mean 19th and 20th Groups had the same flash before...

All* USAR and ARNG SFGs wore the blue w/white border flash, prior to 1967

* 2nd, 9th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 16th, 17th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 24th SF Groups, and the 38th SF Company.

By 1967 all but the 11th, 12th, 19th, and 20th Grps, and the 38th Co. had been inactivated

In '67 the 11th switch to what they currently use, but without the white border, which was added in 1992.

That same year the 19th started wearing a Naugahyde flash (aqua or blue).

In 1972 the 12th went to it's distinctive lightening bolt flash.

The 20th wore a couple of unauthorized flashes before being authorized it's current flash. The red bend represents it's association with 7th Grp, where the 20th Grps, AD Advisors came from

38th Company got it's own flash in 1976, the year it was inactivated.

[Beef]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

We didn't change it until 84..... I'm pretty sure we were out of VN by then...... I was one that "converted" from a VN flash to an all black one. TS

Yes, TS. Viet Nam April 1975, Cambodia May 15, 1975. Except maybe for JCRC and some 46th SFCA folks.

[Beef]

Originally Posted by Bennett

Stras, as you well know, we became a branch for the enlisted in 1984 and officrs in 1986. Weall had flash color prior to that. After 1984 SF stndardized the colors so that 1/10 had to go to the 10th Grou color and 5th had to get the VN colors out. I arrived in Tolz just after the change, but like you still have my 1/10 colors. The wings background changed in the 90s as each group was allowed to mak it more group specific.

As stated, we did become a branch in 1984. Each SF Bn. was tasked with sending a representative from each MOS to the CMF 18 Series conference at SWC in early Dec. 1983. I represented 2/20 as an 11B4S/11C4S. We discussed how to revamp/update the Q Course, extended Phase 2, added infantry tactics, etc. as recommendations. We also discussed the uniform changes on the side. The FSSF crossed arrows as BOS was a no brainer. Big split, however on "qualification badge." Some wanted tabs, others, wings. The "prototype wing" design shown on the link was popular. Regular jump wings with FS dagger and arrows superimposed. Another was same with upswept style wings kind of similar to Army aviation wings. The tab design was thought to be a no brainer. Black tab, gold lettering, like the airborne tab. You could buy these on Yadkin Road, Hay St. and Bragg Blvd. So I was surprised to see the final tab design. I don't recall it ever even coming up.

Originally Posted by Beef

Yes, TS. Viet Nam April 1975, Cambodia May 15, 1975. Except maybe for JCRC and some 46th SFCA folks.

SF (5th Group) was officially out of the RVN in March of 1971

[Beef]

Originally Posted by WCH

SF (5th Group) was officially out of the RVN in March of 1971

Yes, I Should have been more clear, WCH: that was dates for U.S. Forces in general. When 5th furled its flag, was TF-1AE still there or did they also leave? Though they wore baseball caps and MACV patches, they were still SF. Or mostly so.

[TrapperFrank]

Beef, if you remember, we attended together as representatives of 20th GP. My fondest memory is riding back to Mississippi in your Jeep, nearly freezing to death. It was December and that Jeep was like a rolling icebox. Good Times all around....

[Beef]

Originally Posted by TrapperFrank

Beef, if you remember, we attended together as representatives of 20th GP. My fondest memory is riding back to Mississippi in your Jeep, nearly freezing to death. It was December and that Jeep was like a rolling icebox. Good Times all around....

Damn, I sure do remember! We were wrapped in blankets, sleeping bags, etc. With all our crap piled in the backseat, we looked like the Joad family going to the Yukon to pick fruit! Ha! I bet that's where my hand arthritis came from.

Originally Posted by Beef

Yes, I Should have been more clear, WCH: that was dates for U.S. Forces in general. When 5th furled its flag, was TF-1AE still there or did they also leave? Though they wore baseball caps and MACV patches, they were still SF. Or mostly so.

TF1AE, TF2AE, and TF3AE, were there later (April '72), but officially they were USARV units.

[Beef]

Originally Posted by WCH

TF1AE, TF2AE, and TF3AE, were there later (April '72), but officially they were USARV units.

I knew that anyone who had made a 50 mile hike with a 1903 Springfield would probably have those details!

[Masochist]

Is there a significance to the direction of stripes on the beret flashes? Some go from top left to bottom right; others top right to bottom left.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Masochist

Is there a significance to the direction of stripes on the beret flashes? Some go from top left to bottom right; others top right to bottom left.

No.

[a-3-7]

This guy:
http://www.amazon.com/Unconventional...pr_product_top

is wearing a 3rd SFG flash with diagonals in red, green and black for Afghanistan. Is this a real thing? Was there a new flash for 3rd SFG?

[Richard]

Originally Posted by a-3-7

Is this a real thing? Was there a new flash for 3rd SFG?

What people are willing to do to 'hawk' themselves.

Richard