Seeking leadership advice

[Draco771]

I've read all the stuff regarding NCOs, and Officers in Special Forces.

My perdicament.

I've been in Job Corps roughly a month now. Just started "Education" (already half way through "Life Skills". Finished 14 out of 27 packets in my first week, going to be finishing at least 5 more this weekend, and the rest next week, beating the record of fastest completion, I'm so happy! )

Orgenization:

2 Bays per dorm. 4 rooms per bay. 1 "Room Leader" and 6 "Joes"

Each bay is operated by a "Bay Cheif" and an "Assistant Bay Cheif" both bays are under the "Dorm Cheif".

Bay Cheifs, and Dorm Chief, their leadership abilities are good to go. Here, the breach, is in the lower leadership level (The Room Leader).

Lot's of "Hairy stuff" has been going on in the room.

I'm just a "Joe" (For now, I take a large amount of initiative to go "Above and Beyond" in all the things I do. i.e. instead of having to do 1 hour GI, I voluntarily do an extra hour. I volunteer for KP during free time after dinner on some days, I voluntarily do locker GIs even when I was never the guy who was in any trouble etc. I'm trying to do everything I can ethically and morally to square myself away) and my room leader doesn't really seem to care about the stuff. He'd rather write someone up for leaving a key in their locker, and just sit their when one of the other guys talks about how he was "Smoking 4 bulls" earlier.

But the whole thing is, is that everyone seems to think I'm a "show off" or I'm trying to "Up One" on the guys in the room. (I've started sticking up for myself more and more recently, I've ceased taking their crap, making them more agitated) The Bay Cheif in the room knows I'm "Good to go" and "Squared away" however, the crap in the room always happens after he leaves the room.

I've brought up some info to the staff, (such as some "hints" for searching certain lockers in certain locations of the lockers, or the vents by certain beds....) but doesn't seem anything really goes on.

I'm the "New Guy" and "Don't know how things are ran" Personally, I'm about to the point of going full headlong with names to the Staff. But some guys in my room seem to have anger issues.

(One individual possesses a "I'll kill everyone here if I get ZTed" kind of mentality. Two individuals can give crap, but can't take crap. Both of which I wouldn't trust, even in a mental institution)

I've brought some stuff up to the Bay Cheif, however, he's on leave right now at the moment.

I'm kinda confused on what to do.

Should I become a bit more "Proactive" on the situation? Or should I "Back off" more?

Do you Gents think I should work more, and set higher examples in the dorm? Or should I let off some?

Honestly, I've never been in a structure like this for this long of a time. Am I trying too hard?

I know the room leader tries (some times, however seldomly, because he seems to let his buddies do anything they want, but anyone else, oh no, you're screwed...) to dow hat he can, but he seems more interested in getting Assistant Bay Cheif, rather than trying to actually lead.

In dorm, the leadership positions are no joke. Outside of dorm, class leadership is the same. None of it is a joke here.

I'm just confused on what to do. Personally, I WANT to be more proactive, and get the two guys ZTed (Zero Tolerance Policy in place) but than again, they have a few "buddies" in the dorm as well. One of them is graduating on Thursday (but I can bring him out to the staff, and get him ZTed) Should I just let it go and just let him get done and go for good?

Honestly, I biasly WANT to make him fry. Because per Job Corps Policy, he's a ZT waiting to happen, but some of the staff seem to really like him. (I don't know if I'd end up putting a bullseye on my head doing so) But than again, my own feelings enter into the fray. (I honestly dislike him quite a bit)

The other one, he seems the same way, only he isn't graduating anytime soon.

Any advice?

I've searched these forums quite a bit, and have read the "Do the right thing, take initiative, etc." numerous time, which I agree with. However, I've also read some threads which went into "Time and Place" and "Leader's Discretion".

I've only been here for a month, does that really matter at all?

[Blitzzz]

Originally Posted by Draco771

I've read all the stuff regarding NCOs, and Officers in Special Forces.

My perdicament.

I've been in Job Corps roughly a month now. Just started "Education" (already half way through "Life Skills". Finished 14 out of 27 packets in my first week, going to be finishing at least 5 more this weekend, and the rest next week, beating the record of fastest completion, I'm so happy! )
I get that you are motivated...great.

Orgenization:

2 Bays per dorm. 4 rooms per bay. 1 "Room Leader" and 6 "Joes"

Each bay is operated by a "Bay Cheif" and an "Assistant Bay Cheif" both bays are under the "Dorm Cheif".

Bay Cheifs, and Dorm Chief, their leadership abilities are good to go. Here, the breach, is in the lower leadership level (The Room Leader).

Lot's of "Hairy stuff" has been going on in the room.

Not too important for this question, fairly normal leadership chain.

I'm just a "Joe" (For now, I take a large amount of initiative to go "Above and Beyond" in all the things I do. i.e. instead of having to do 1 hour GI, I voluntarily do an extra hour. I volunteer for KP during free time after dinner on some days, I voluntarily do locker GIs even when I was never the guy who was in any trouble etc. I'm trying to do everything I can ethically and morally to square myself away) and my room leader doesn't really seem to care about the stuff. He'd rather write someone up for leaving a key in their locker, and just sit their when one of the other guys talks about how he was "Smoking 4 bulls" earlier.

This is probably only a problem to you. Your nature seems a bit anal, and really your "mission" is to suceed in the course. Let the other shit bags fail of their own accord. You seem to believe that reporting on the rest of them will straighten things out. It won't, it will only make the weaker personalities jealous and angry.

But the whole thing is, is that everyone seems to think I'm a "show off" or I'm trying to "Up One" on the guys in the room. (I've started sticking up for myself more and more recently, I've ceased taking their crap, making them more agitated) The Bay Cheif in the room knows I'm "Good to go" and "Squared away" however, the crap in the room always happens after he leaves the room.

You do seem to be unnecessarily "proactive" to be interpreted as a "SHOW OFF".

I've brought up some info to the staff, (such as some "hints" for searching certain lockers in certain locations of the lockers, or the vents by certain beds....) but doesn't seem anything really goes on.

Unless you've been instructed to bring up stuff to the staff....dont. let the other dumbies display their failings, and dont do the extra stuff as you aren't getting any recognition for it.
I'm the "New Guy" and "Don't know how things are ran" Personally, I'm about to the point of going full headlong with names to the Staff. But some guys in my room seem to have anger issues.

Just chill out "new Guy" and don't make yourself be too noticed.

(One individual possesses a "I'll kill everyone here if I get ZTed" kind of mentality. Two individuals can give crap, but can't take crap. Both of which I wouldn't trust, even in a mental institution)

Stay away from this Mall Ninja and don't let his steroid rages bother you.

I've brought some stuff up to the Bay Cheif, however, he's on leave right now at the moment.

I'm kinda confused on what to do.

Should I become a bit more "Proactive" on the situation? Or should I "Back off" more?

Do you Gents think I should work more, and set higher examples in the dorm? Or should I let off some?

Let off! Be your own self and screw the rest. your "proactive" is a bit whinny.
don't take shit...don't give shit. Pass to course. Use your extra time to make your personal stuff that much better than the rest of theirs.

Honestly, I've never been in a structure like this for this long of a time. Am I trying too hard?

I know the room leader tries (some times, however seldomly, because he seems to let his buddies do anything they want, but anyone else, oh no, you're screwed...) to dow hat he can, but he seems more interested in getting Assistant Bay Cheif, rather than trying to actually lead.

In dorm, the leadership positions are no joke. Outside of dorm, class leadership is the same. None of it is a joke here.

I'm just confused on what to do. Personally, I WANT to be more proactive, and get the two guys ZTed (Zero Tolerance Policy in place) but than again, they have a few "buddies" in the dorm as well. One of them is graduating on Thursday (but I can bring him out to the staff, and get him ZTed) Should I just let it go and just let him get done and go for good?

Honestly, I biasly WANT to make him fry. Because per Job Corps Policy, he's a ZT waiting to happen, but some of the staff seem to really like him. (I don't know if I'd end up putting a bullseye on my head doing so) But than again, my own feelings enter into the fray. (I honestly dislike him quite a bit)

The other one, he seems the same way, only he isn't graduating anytime soon.

Any advice?
Drop it let the Ahole screw himself. Not your responsibility to police the others. Blitzzz
?

Just my Zwei Centavos

[ZonieDiver]

Draco,

Having taught at a charter high school for four years that was co-located in, and providing the high school diploma program for, a Job Corps Center, I think I am marginally qualified to answer some of your questions.

Let me start by saying that, IMHO, the problems you face are ones that you will face again at some point if you pursue a military career. You will be, at some point, surrounded by people who don't share your work ethic or desire to work at a level of excellence. You must be you. You must perform to the level expected of you - as a minimum. (And if you desire to ever be in Special Forces - never, ever, work at "minimums".) So, basically - screw 'em. (Be prepared to have someone try to "beat your ass" though.)

In my JC Center, we had lots of "gang-bangers" and "wannabes". They were, for the most part, all talk. Few things ever happened. Lots of talk and BS, but very little action. I am assuming, that like most JC Centers, you have abundant "security" in yours. We had LOTS of it. Every time I sat in on a board where someone was to be "ZT'ed" - they had "Kevin" - our huge security guy standing at the door to escort the person "ZT'ed" OUT! I never saw a problem. Do what is right. You probably won't get your ass beat because of it. (Be ready, in case!) I hope you have people there who feel as you do. If not, cultivate them. It is always nice to have someone "have your back" IF a confrontation develops. Per Job Corps policies, IF someone even hints at "threatening" you for doing the right thing, they will be "ZT'ed" - the threat of violence is all that is necessary, regardless of the reason for said violence, even self-defense. Tell everyone - from Education staff, to security, to the cafeteria management. Go to the Center Director. He or she SHOULD be very visible at certain times of the day.

If, at this point in your life, you develop the ability to "accept" and "look the other way" - that is the way you will approach life eventually. Stand tall. Do what is right. Get people who agree with you to side with you. Approach the "powers that be" and "put the ball in their court"! IF your JC Center Director is like ours was - when presented with a situation where he or she must choose - he or she will follow the "guidelines" that are prescribed.

Incidentally, the teacher in me must state: It is "predicament," "organization," "chief" ("i" before "e," except after "c" or when followed by..."!

Good luck. I think, from what you wrote, that you KNOW what to do. Follow your head.

(If you'd like more specific actions to take, PM me with your JC Center, etc.)

By the way, congrats on choosing Job Corps - a great step for a LOT of young people.

[LarryW]

I was an RA at Tongue Point JCC in Oregon for two years. Job Corps is an excellent program. Recommend you take ZonieDiver's advice. IMHO, you'd be better off if you compete with yourself. There will always be those ahead of and behind you. The mission right now is to finish the program. Press on and don't give up.

By the way, congrats on choosing Job Corps - a great step for a LOT of young people.

[Peregrino]

Draco - ZD has given you a "way ahead". If you have the courage and moral fortitude to follow his advice, you will reap positive dividends for the rest of your life. Personally, I've never had cause to regret my "Boy Scout" attitude/upbringing.

[Draco771]

I will be speaking to my Dorm Chief after he gets back tomorrow. and bring him a full report as we speak to the dorm staff. (It's the chain of command we have here, although I have to skip a step and go above room leader)

And I guess I'll continue to compete with myself.

Only thing is, recently, the two individuals it seems have become "Skittish". Unknown if they were joking around or not now....

Well, I'll find out soon...

I sincerely appreciate everything. and yes, Tongue Point from a couple guys over here have said, it sounds like a gorgeous area. Especially for the Sailor types.

Right now another proactive subject I'm hoping to get into rather soon, is a proposal between the Local Fire Department, and my Job Corps Center to do a joint Job Corps, and Volunteer Fire Fighter.

So CNA, Pharmacy, and Hard Trades (Construction) could get their EMT-B and Fire Fighter I certifications.

I will be following through with the two individuals, give them to staff and leave it at that.

Something I want to do after that's done with, is make some reform proposals one of which I had just mentioned.

LarryW and ZonieDiver, you both stated you were Job Corps? (One an instructor, the other a student) at one point in time?

What would you two (or anyone) think about this?:

It's only a rough draft not a final copy, things will be changed here and there.

Proposal: Joint Job Corps, and Fire Department Volunteer Fire Fighter program:

Purpose: Increase Emergency Response Capbilities for the Fire Department, and Emergencies that occur on center.

Reasons why this will benefit both Fire Department and center:

1.It would increase relations, and possibly mend ties between <City name removed), and (Job Corps name removed). By serving the Community it can also help teach students to think of other people than themselves.

2.It can install greater leadership fundementals in the Job Corps Student by teaching them how to constantly, and consistantly stay in a non-bias, non-descriminant environment. Meanwhile, working as a member of a team amonsgt diverse populations and within austere conditions.

3.It would add more man-poer to the Fire Department to meet higher demands increasing the Fire Departments readiness to meet, and exceed the demands of the Fire Department.

4.It would benefit JC in that we would have EMT’s onsite to give Emergency Medical Treatment to individuals in need, and determine if hospitalization would be needed. Meanwhile, increasing health, wellness, and safety across the center.

5.It would save (Name of Job Corps removed) Money, because BLS Care could be provided here, on sit. If hospitalization was required, EMT Qualified Students could render care until Paramedics came on scene, and take individual to the hospital, if no hospitalization is needed, it would save approx. $500min from not needing an ambulance.

6.It would be important to have EMT’s on-site, because of the “Hard-Trades.” Injuries occur frequently so having EMT’s ON-Site can add to their safety. (See points 4, and 5)

7.How would it work for schooling? Just like real-world, Classes are done in the afternoon and/or on weekends. Finish Trade-Day, then get on a bus, go to the Fire Department and start training, come back after training.

8.How would this effect social life of the student? Getting involved with the EMT/FF program requires commitment, during the time of the training, you are expected to be dedicated to the goal of accomplishing training. This means a decrease in social life until completion of the course.

9.Orgenization: Work one full-week, and one weekend a month at the Fire Department as a Volunteer Fire Fighter, or one weekend a month at the Fire Department, and one full week a month here, on center (like KP for instance) monitoring the safety and wellbeing of the individuals in Hard-Trades, and around Center providing immidiate medical care if needed.

10.Job Corps Criteria to be involved: Must have positive Color Card (Green, Red, Silvier, or Gold) Must pass requirements for entry into (Name of Fire Department removed) Fire Department as a Volunteer Fire Fighter. Must have at least 30 days time on-center. Be dedicated to your goals. And serve the minimum dedication requirement of service outlined by (Name of Fire Department Removed) Fire Department. and hold and Medical, (CNA, Phlebotomy, or Pharmacy Technician) or any Hard Trade. and meet physical requirements.

This is only a rough draft, not a final copy. ZonieDiver and LarryW, what do ya think? (all opinions from anyone are welcome) And Blitzzz and Peregrino, thank you for your inputs, I am sincerely thankful for any/all input. I will put everything under consideration.

Other things on why this may benefit my center, is because just like at a real job site, such as a manufacturing, or construction site, there are Medical Technicians on site at all times. (Especially industrial construction) Like Boeing for instance, they have an entire Fire Department right on site. (complimented with Paramedics even) Industrial construction sites across Everett, and Seattle, each have EMT-B qualified Carpenters, Cement Masons, etc. to double up for them.

And for the Medical guys/gals, it would give them higher skillsets for what they do. Like me going CNA, pay wise like my brethren and female counterparts, we would have more options for employment (Since pay between EMT and CNA are relatively the same). and the Pharmacy Technician Students would have another skillset as well.

We had a graduate Pharmacy Technician come on center a couple days ago, and he's a part-time Fire Fighter for Tri-Cities while working as a Pharmacy Technician on his normal days. (he's soon going to be going vice-versa)

So those are other reasons why I'm contemplating proposing this to my Center Director, Health and Safety Officer, Public Relations Officer, and my Counselors and Dorm Staff...

[LarryW]

The great thing about Job Corps is that it affords young people who for one reason or another find themselves either under-employed or unemployable. In a safe residential setting, they teach the Corpsmembers a trade and provide them the educational opportunity to get their GED if they don't already have a diploma.

Draco, the most important prospect at this time in your work is to keep your focus on the task at hand, that being to finish the program. Relax and keep your eye on the ball. Focus on your education classes and/or your vocational classes. The Greeks have a saying I'll probably destroy, but it goes something like, "Fill your bag one bean at a time, but fill it". Continue to be persistent in your work and studies. IMHO, your idea represents something worth sending up your chain of command. Don't be discouraged. You're in this to win the Marathon. You can do it. Good luck! Keep faith in yourself, apply yourself, and never quit.

[Draco771]

Originally Posted by LarryW

The great thing about Job Corps is that it affords young people who for one reason or another find themselves either under-employed or unemployable. In a safe residential setting, they teach the Corpsmembers a trade and provide them the educational opportunity to get their GED if they don't already have a diploma.

Draco, the most important prospect at this time in your work is to keep your focus on the task at hand, that being to finish the program. Relax and keep your eye on the ball. Focus on your education classes and/or your vocational classes. The Greeks have a saying I'll probably destroy, but it goes something like, "Fill your bag one bean at a time, but fill it". Continue to be persistent in your work and studies. IMHO, your idea represents something worth sending up your chain of command. Don't be discouraged. You're in this to win the Marathon. You can do it. Good luck! Keep faith in yourself, apply yourself, and never quit.

Thy will be done.

I haven't lost any focus at all. going to do anything and everything I can to get involved with this center, complete the program, and give what I can back to the program here.

We already have a Wildland Fire Fighting program. The Fire Department here, getting involved in Residential Fire Fighting on the side as well (so students could choose to volunteer for Wildland Fire Fighting or Residential Fire Fighter+EMT-B)

We signed contracts stating we'll pursue initiative whenever possible, and push for responsibility and leadership.

If I can get this approved, and get other things approved, while I'm finishing the program, I could also change the program around.

"Never become a product of your envirnment, make your envirnment a product of you" - Unknown

I'll pursue that goal. Perhaps others coming in could benefit quite a bit as well from it?

How was Job Corps for you? Did it help prepare you at all for military service? or what you did for your life after graduating?

why you didn't enlist already? I went in the day I turned 17. I wish I had the knowledge base this board provides. I'm learning something new all the time. All those years of "education" and I never heard of Letter to Garcia.

[Draco771]

Originally Posted by Remington Raidr

why you didn't enlist already? I went in the day I turned 17. I wish I had the knowledge base this board provides. I'm learning something new all the time. All those years of "education" and I never heard of Letter to Garcia.

I'm not eligible to Enlist at all until March at the soonest. however, because of regulations I've been given, I can't Enlist until September 2010 at the soonest, due to 2 years + 6 monthes for PULHES to expire.

Unless Enlistment regulations have changed since August 1st when I checked in about them again?

And plus, at the rate I'm going, I'll be done witht he entire program possibly by December, making February the day I can graduate Job Corps, and start a civilian life while waiting to Enlist. (And get higher level of physical fitness )

I would have Enlisted last year if I could have.

But at this rate, I'll be 20 years old by the time I can Enlist. Doesn't matter how I look at it, regulations are the regulations. Already asked about waivers, etc.

Army is overmanned, National Guard is WAY overmanned, Marine Corps has met relatively full strength, Navy is starting to become overmanned, and Air Force and Coast Guard are cutting down some. Even regular Reserve (Army, Navy, Marine Corps Reserve, etc.) are almost at full, or almost over full strength.

Every recruiter I've asked, I'm ineligible until August 2010. 2 years, + 6 monthes + 1 day for PULHES to fully 100% expire so I could go back with a totally clean slate.

Which is why I went into my second choice, coming here to Job Corps, since college is far too expensive for me at the current moment in time. Being a Nursing Assistant may not be "much". But it's most likely going to be the only real certification on paper for any kind of decent job I can get without going to a 2, or 4 year institution. Since the military isn't an option for me for 11 more monthes to go.

I'm just trying to get my life squared away while waiting on the Enlistment Date. Something I've considered after completing the CNA program, if I can't get the EMT-B, or Fire Fighter program started up here, is transfering to another Job Corps Civilian Conservation Center to learn NREMT-B and Intermediate. Since several out of sector JCCCs offer it.

Remington Raidr, respectfully, I've spent too much time during my days in High School focusing on the military, I allowed all other opportunities to pass by. Until I can get my life squared away just as it is, and until August 19th, 2010 comes, the military is going to have to be the 300m target.

And I mean absolutely no disrespect to a single person on this, or any other forum, or anywhere for that matter. I have not lost site of serving in the military what-so-ever. Just I have to put it on hold for the time-being.

Remginton Raidr, if you're unaware, on March 17th, 2008 I had gone to MEPS. took the physical, did all the tests, etc. on the 18th. I had recieved a 3P in Vision. and a 3T in Weight. Weight, I'm pretty much all good to go. It's not even really an issue worth mentioning anymore. But the 3P still stands, because the P=Permanent. For that "P" to disapear, I have to wait two years, six monthes, and one day before I can Enlist in any branch of service. (it's traditionally 2 years, however for a "P" to "Disapear" off record, you have to wait six additional monthes, and one day, that's how the past 28 recruiters both in state, and out of state have explained it to me)

92G, and 68G? (the Hospital Cook) are the only two MOSs I'm eligible for. Both of which I'd have no problems doing, however, if I Enlisted with either MOS, that would mean my 3P would be permanent my entire time in service. (my vision is corrected to 20/20 both eyes now, meaning I'm a 1 in vision now, however, again, the 3P supercedes all follow-ons) Meaning any follow-on schools, even for, and pertaining to 92G, would be a No-Go, because you're not authorized schools if you have any permanent profiles.

At least that is how it's been explained to me the past 100+ times Recruiters, and servicemembers have explained all of this to me.

That's the entire reason why I haven't Enlisted yet. Closest thing to a military system aside from a PD, or a FD is Job Corps. So I came here for Job Corps.

I mean no disrespect of any kind, and I'm not displaying any attitude of any kind, just answering the question in-detail to clarify why I haven't Enlisted yet.

Remington Raidr, I hope that answered your question.

Edit: September 1st, 2010 will be the date I restart Enlistment Processes. Because of the end FY starts in September (Or am I mistaken? I know it's October to September) and usually recruiters are pushing to meet quata.

In 1975 the military wasn't that picky. I don't understand a lot of what you wrote, but others do and I am sure it is the real deal. I was just genuinely curious, I wasn't trying to disrepect you. Drive on.

[Draco771]

Remington Raidr, no disrespect taken.

I apologize for leaving this thread idol for so long, it's been a while.

At JC as far as leadership positions go, for dorm I served as Assistant Dorm Court Lead, and later as Head Dorm Court Leader, Room Leader, and Recreation Staff Member, first for the regular side of the Recreation Center, and then later for the Arts and Crafts side.

For trade, I held Assistant Crew Chief, and later Head Crew Chief.

I finished the Job Corps program on April 9th of this year (2010).

In Job Corps, I found a great deal of information provided to be most valuable.