Labor Unions

**Roguish Lawyer** · 05-20-2004, 10:13

I am curious what people think about them. A few topics:

1. (Poll question included) Do you consider yourself generally to be pro- or anti-union? Why?

2. Have you ever crossed a picket line? Under what circumstances?

3. Do you believe that unions tend to be corrupt organizations that do not serve their members well?

4. Are unions anti-consumer?

5. Do you care about union endorsements when you vote?

Sacamuelas · 05-20-2004, 10:45

1. currently anti (in general)
2. N/A
3. Yes
4. No, self serving with 1st priority its own leadership, then constituents
5. No.. not back when I worked for the state, not when I now work as a fed employee.

[RANT]
Story: Recently I changed my clinic hours at work. Myself, my assistants, and the hygienist all wanted and asked for this change to be made for our personal convenience. I got it approved by my immediate supervisor, deputy commander (AF O-5), our installation commanding officer (Navy 0-6), and up the chain all the way to civilian who literally answers directly to D. Rumsfeld. Believe it or not, that is what it took for final approval and all the CYA being done by the lower level supervisors in case someone griped about it. Voila... that was easier than I thought.

Not so fast!

Guess what? Even though I had it approved by the entire chain of command, I still couldn't enact the schedule change. Why you ask?...
"The Union" has to approve it too. Well, I figured it was a slam-dunk since it was us asking for this change to benefit the employees. Should be a rubber stamp with the union- much easier than getting all the power people on the Admin side of the Gov. to approve it.

Wrong! The civil service union heads refused to sign off on the deal unless the big wigs above me agreed to something that the union wanted at the time. That's right, the union initially vetoed the change even though it was asked for/derived from/and benefited only the union's members not the ADMIN. Needless to say, after several pounding on the desk "meetings"(haha) I had with the local union president it finally got approved.

It REALLY pissed me off, and I will be anti-union biased for a long time because of this. I was shocked. I expected the union to be happy and help in any manner possible to get better working circumstances for its members.[/RANT]

Solid · 05-20-2004, 10:46

RL,

Are we discussing unions operating in social/economic conditions such as those in the US, or unions in general?

Thank you,

Solid

DunbarFC · 05-20-2004, 10:50

1. I view unions as a necessary evil, with emphasis on evil. Yes they do some good. I was a "union" member when I was 16 and worked at a grocery store. I HAD to join. Did it benefit me in any way - heck no they just wanted my dues.

2. No

3. Yes I do. I recently worked with some Teamsters - it's as bad as you think

4. Yes

5. Nope. I vote Repbulican

**Roguish Lawyer** · 05-20-2004, 10:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Solid
RL,

Are we discussing unions operating in social/economic conditions such as those in the US, or unions in general?

Thank you,

Solid

Solid,

You may discuss whatever you would like, and you do not need my permission to do it. That is the case here and in every other thread.

You are welcome,

RL

Solid · 05-20-2004, 11:02

It seems to me (with my limited knowledge) that the worth of unions differs in relation to the social, economic, and political standings of the country in which they operate. In the US and UK, where fundemental human rights are protected, Unions seem to cause more problems than they solve for the workers and employers. The same (at a far more visible level) goes for France and Germany, where unions are deeply entrenched. Labour market inflexibility has been partially blamed for the time-lag which prevented both Germany and France from reacting to recent economic down-turns.

However, in countries where basic rights are not as well protected, un co-opted unions seem to help by maintaining nominal job-safety and security. Some argue that NICs can only develop (along the lines of Western economic development) if uncorrupted unions are present.

For this reason, it seems that it might be a good idea to limit the debate to core Western countries.

JMO,

Solid

Air.177 · 05-20-2004, 11:04

1. Anti

2. No, but that is not to say I wouldn't

3.Yes

4.Yes

5.No

QRQ 30 · 05-20-2004, 11:11

1. Today, anti
2. No.
3. Yes.
4. Maybe.
5. NO!!

At the turn of the 20th Century, unions were a good force in normalizing labor/management relationships. The did away with the virtual slavery in many industries. Today they are part of the problem. They have priced american labor out of the market.

Unions lost their teeth when right to work laws were passed.

Gypsy · 05-20-2004, 18:11

1. Anti. Back many moons ago when people (and especially child labor) were subjected to terrible working conditions, poverty wages etc they served their purpose. Now I think they don't do squat for the employees in general except take dues. Saca's example reinforces my personal thoughts in general.

2. Yes. I was working at a trucking company when I first got out of school and the union went on strike. As an office support person I felt they had no right to affect my employment or my income so I crossed it every day. At first it was all fun and games for them..till the weather turned brutally cold. While I was well liked I did get some grief for crossing, which I ignored....besides my dad was the warehouse manager and would have eventually kicked the heck out of anyone that laid a hand on his baby girl.

3. Yes

4. Yes

5. HE** NO!

CPTAUSRET · 05-20-2004, 21:29

I'm opposed to labor unions, I believe they are selfserving, corrupt, and no longer serve any useful purpose in this country.

Terry

**Roguish Lawyer** · 05-20-2004, 21:36

No union guys here?

NDD!

Air.177 · 05-20-2004, 21:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
No union guys here?

NDD!

Yeah, Yeah, I guess that means that I am for "Oppressing the People" and that I am "The man" that's keeping them down. Screw it, I'm on the list anyway

**The Reaper** · 05-20-2004, 21:57

Quote:

Originally posted by CPTAUSRET
I'm opposed to labor unions, I believe they are selfserving, corrupt, and no longer serve any useful purpose in this country.

Terry

Concur.

They had a role, but it is no longer to better the life of the worker.

TR

**Roguish Lawyer** · 05-20-2004, 22:34

OK, my answers:

1. Do you consider yourself generally to be pro- or anti-union? Why?

Anti. I don't think they help their members much anymore, they are generally corrupt, they raise prices and they cause work stoppages that I don't like.

2. Have you ever crossed a picket line? Under what circumstances?

Yes. Most recently, I intentionally shopped at the grocery stores that were the subject of a strike. The demands being made by the strikers were just ridiculous and out of touch with reality. In particular, they refused to contribute to the cost of health insurance despite the fact that this is now something that every employee I know (including myself when I was an employee) does.

3. Do you believe that unions tend to be corrupt organizations that do not serve their members well?

Yes, and I have seen it in action. I used to run political campaigns and had some exposure to unions and their management.

4. Are unions anti-consumer?

They can be. They increase prices. I don't blame them for seeking higher wages, though.

5. Do you care about union endorsements when you vote?

Yes. When a union endorses something, I am more likely to vote against it and vice versa.

Solid · 05-21-2004, 01:15

The market, including labour market, has a way of finding its own equilibrium. To create general labour conditions that allow this equilibrium to involve humane health and safety regulations and a 'fair' wage level (subjective, I know), Unions can play a part. Past that point, however, they hurt the market more than they help it.

JMO,

Solid