Old 02-05-2010, 10:05   #46
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I also heard that NC is a castle state but from what I read that can mean several things anyone have any insight???
Cobra,

I'm not trying to be a wise-ass, but you should read the NC castle law from a reputable source (county licensing board or State Police site). The castle law varies a lot from state to state, and a layman's opinion is worth what you pay for it.
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:24   #47
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On a slightly different note, for anyone with small children -
Over the past few years I've gone to the fire department with all of my kids for various school tours.
Memory trigger here, taking this thread slightly sideways for one small note......

There are excellent fire ladders (rope-style ladders) that can be kept in upper stories for escape. I'm a bit uncertain about how I would feel about kids going out their own windows in the event of intruders YMMV.

However, when I was a kid we had a total of 3 house fires, the last one was total. So, I use this opportunity to advertise something that gave me a lot of emotional comfort when my kids were young and at home. I had never known of their existence until taking some Tiger Cubs to a local fire station.

$34 on Amazon, and the kids love training on them.

Paranoia can be good for you
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:54   #48
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NO TRESPASSING YOU WILL BE SHOT!!! would hopefully be a good deterrent

I also heard that NC is a castle state but from what I read that can mean several things anyone have any insight???
Cobra, I understand the feeling about the sign... it makes you feel good, but remember it also advertises that you have a gun in the house, which may attract intruders when you're not at home looking for your weapon.

My neighbors know I'm well armed and well trained but anyone else walking by I want to think it's just another house maybe there's a gun, maybe there's not. Especially at Bragg where the criminals do sometimes recon their targets I wouldn't want to advertise I have a gun in the house.

If a would be burglar should make the poor life decision to come into my house when I'm around the only warning they will get will be the racking of the slide, if they get that.... With that being said I'm an X-LEO, so I know the laws in my AO and I know exactly how to articulate the why's for any and all of my actions.

A sign like that, coupled with a military style weapon i.e. AR and a little bad media exposure could put you in a very bad way depending on the prosecutor in your AO, it could also work against you in a civil or possibly even criminal trial again depending on the prosecutor/solicitor in that AO, I would think in Fayetteville you’d be alright but I don’t know that for a fact.

Just a few things to consider.
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Old 02-05-2010, 15:27   #49
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NO TRESPASSING,
VIOLATORS WILL BE SHOT,
SURVIVORS WILL BE SHOT AGAIN.
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Old 02-05-2010, 17:24   #50
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Thank you all for the good gouge in this thread, it really does give some good ideas considering we have been a target for some reason over the past couple of years.

FWIW, the following picture shows what happened to our garage door after the third attempt within a years time:
IMG_0075.jpg

We weren’t home but we think our dog kept them from entering, fortunately nothing was stolen thanks to Sampson
IMG_0083.jpg

My whole family now knows how to handle firearms (not like you professionals) due to the craziness that has occurred within our area.

Keep the ideas coming, awesome thread !
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Old 02-05-2010, 18:15   #51
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One thing I run into from time to time is that people have deadbolts that require key from both the interior and exterior. That seems like a hazard to me.

If you use a security system ADT, Brinks, etc. what is wired? Are there other less obvious means of exterior access that aren't wired like dormer vents, roof vents, crawl space access? How do you know it actually works?

A local tool supplier had a high dollar system with motion sensors. It was tested time and time again. Yet they were cleaned out 3 times in one month using the same access point, the glass next to the front door.

And the system failed 3 times.
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Old 02-05-2010, 18:18   #52
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One thing I run into from time to time is that people have deadbolts that require key from both the interior and exterior. That seems like a hazard to me.
Usually these are doors with, or near, windows. It keeps the BGs form breaking the window and reaching in to unlock the door.

Pat
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Old 02-05-2010, 18:37   #53
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HC, you need to slow down and read before commenting for a while. Ready, aim, fire.

His Disciple, while I agree that firing a warning shot is a bad idea, I have quite a few issues with the rest of your commentary. Unless you have some special military or LE training that is missing from your profile, you should probably save your advice for areas where you do have some expertise.

Plato, I like the way you are thinking.

LRSU, b22b, inceptor, good prep. All I can say about higher floors with limited exit options is to make sure that the window can be opened and consider planting something soft below.

Shar, how old is your oldest child? Could he/she be put in charge of collecting the others and hiding or slipping out of the house to the neighbors? We live in a house with a split plan, and our kids are in the opposite end of the house. Our oldest is responsible for gathering the youngest and getting to safety. You could keep an air horn in the bedroom for fires and intruders, just make sure everyone knows what they are supposed to do and has rehearsed it.

Again, dogs are great, especially if at least one is kept indoors.

911 calls can be as short as necessary. The lines are all recorded now, and in most areas, the location shows up when the call is received. You couldf literally dial the number and drop the phone while yelling at the intruder. I do not need the moral support of the dispatcher (who seem to vary widely in quality these days), and the recording may be used in your hearing/trial, so all I have to say is "This is Mr. X., at YZ Maple Street. There is an intruder in my home, I am afraid that he might be armed. I have a gun and am prepared to defend my family. I am afraid for their safety. Please hurry." It does not matter if the intruder hears this or not, though your legal position is better iof he does. Then drop the phone or hand it to the spouse. I do not plan to get into a gunfight while yakking on a phone.

Great point about the legal aftermath. If you do not currently get American Handgunner, get a copy and read Massad Ayoob's column. He is usually testifying in some citizen's trial as an expert and you would not believe how often people are charged or sued. $10,000 in legal fees for a righteous shooting is probably a starting point.

You might be surprised at how effective properly placed nightlights can be for tactical illum. You know the layout and their location. The intruder probably does not. That is enough to manuever, should you need to, until you have the need to engage. Then once you have determined the number and location of intruders, and are ready to engage, a powerful hand held or weapons light can be applied for final ID prior to one final voice command and engaging. If the intruder is armed and failes to respond to the voice command, or appears to be unarmed but acts aggressively, then it is time to engage.

Do not forget that a car of excited cops are about to show up at a crime scene where they know at least one person is armed. Never point the weapon at the responding officers, try to put it in a safe place as they arrive, and obey all instructions they issue to the letter. Hopefully, you have ID handy and can quickly establish that you are the homeowner.

You do as you see fit, but I would probably see to the security and status of my family ASAP, tell the cops that you were afraid for your life and the lives of your family, and tell them that you are too shaken to make a coherent statement right away. As soon as possible, get a lawyer and let him do your talking. I know lawyering up looks bad, but it beats the alternative of delivering a full statement still coming down off the adrenaline rush, and then having some shyster pick the police version of your statement concerning life or death decisions apart over a month long trial that could incarcerate or bankrupt you.

I agree that most burglaries happen during daylight hours while the homeowners are at work. Home invaders probably prefer the night, since they may be after you, as well as your stuff.

As a warning, unless you are trained, DO NOT attempt to go on the offense after the intruder. Barricade yourself in a covered or at least concealed position, and prepare to defend yourself.

If you ever come home, and find your door ajar, DO NOT CLEAR THE HOUSE YOURSELF! Call the cops and consider parking a short distance away, where you can observe your home till they arrive. Once they do, tell them what is going on and wait for them to clear it and give you the opportunity to enter and inventory. Frankly, after they have cleared it, you may want to have them follow you while you do your own inspection. If anything has been tampered with, be very cautious, they may have missed the intruder and he may still be in the house.

I hope this thread helps people prepare and do at least a little planning. Most of us will never have to execute the plan. I hope that anyone who does comes out of it on top. Best of luck.

TR
TR...excellent summary of what to do and what not to do. Not clearing the house on your own is critical for evidence purposes as well as safety. Additionally if you are fortunate enough to have a K9 available in your municipality, at the time of the burglary, a dog can track fairly effectively from the entry and exit points which are often times the same. Also agree with "lawyering" up. If you shoot another person in your home you just committed homicide (justified or not) and there will be an intensive investigation...especially if you live in a relatively low crime area. Being without a lawyer while caught up in the legal system is along the same lines as jumping the fence at the zoo to pet the pretty lions.

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Old 02-05-2010, 18:40   #54
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Usually these are doors with, or near, windows. It keeps the BGs form breaking the window and reaching in to unlock the door.

Pat
True. But do you want to be juggling with keys in an emergency? When someone takes 60 to 120 seconds to let me in their house on a normal day, I wonder how long would it take them to unlock the door in a critical situation.

And generally speaking a pine door jamb/deadbolt combo will generally fail with little effort and/or can be manipulated to gain access.
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Old 02-05-2010, 18:57   #55
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True. But do you want to be juggling with keys in an emergency? When someone takes 60 to 120 seconds to let me in their house on a normal day, I wonder how long would it take them to unlock the door in a critical situation.
If it takes them that long, they're doing something wrong. We have one. The key is near the door and reaching for it is like reaching for a light switch. I put my index finger on the cut side, which is up, and my finger tip on the slot. Then I just slide it in. It probably takes about 5 seconds.

Pat
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Old 02-05-2010, 19:04   #56
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Originally Posted by T-Rock View Post
Thank you all for the good gouge in this thread, it really does give some good ideas considering we have been a target for some reason over the past couple of years.

FWIW, the following picture shows what happened to our garage door after the third attempt within a years time:
Attachment 14424

We weren’t home but we think our dog kept them from entering, fortunately nothing was stolen thanks to Sampson
Attachment 14425

My whole family now knows how to handle firearms (not like you professionals) due to the craziness that has occurred within our area.

Keep the ideas coming, awesome thread !
You need a double-cylinder deadbolt in that door, if not a solid door, and longer screws as well. If you go to a solid door, a single-cylinder deadbolt lock will be fine.

An hour or two putting some 3" deck screws in the door hardware. Strike boxes and kick plates (around $10-20 each) would be even better and can save you a lot of money. Most houses only have a few doors to work on.

Ground level windows should be immobilized.

Sliding glass doors, if you have them, need to be properly blocked.

Most LE agencies have a physical security officer who will show you how to properly protect your home.

Anything can be breached with enough gear and time. The longer it takes and harder it is, the more likely they will skip it and hit a softer target. And that is good enough.

TR
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Old 02-05-2010, 19:06   #57
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One thing I run into from time to time is that people have deadbolts that require key from both the interior and exterior. That seems like a hazard to me.

If you use a security system ADT, Brinks, etc. what is wired? Are there other less obvious means of exterior access that aren't wired like dormer vents, roof vents, crawl space access? How do you know it actually works?

A local tool supplier had a high dollar system with motion sensors. It was tested time and time again. Yet they were cleaned out 3 times in one month using the same access point, the glass next to the front door.

And the system failed 3 times.
I've heard from those who had the double lock deadbolts that they prevent the intruder who crawls through a window from getting out with their "stuff". They're also really good for keeping you inside during a fire. Testosterone is good, but only in proper amounts.

On the alarm systems, you can check Sears, Radio Shack, etc., for systems that are really simple and inexpensive. "High dollar" just means someone paid too much.
If you are at all DIY, then you can install a really good system for under $200 dollars.
Unless you are very isolated or live in an area where nobody cares what happens in the neighborhood, I see no sense to the systems that notify a commercial service who will send the PD by in 10 or 15 minutes.
A loud visible system that draws all eyes to the house will cause most to leave.

My "smile, you're on video" signs, front and back are probably a major deterrent as well.
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Old 02-05-2010, 19:34   #58
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If it takes them that long, they're doing something wrong.

Pat
I am not joking, I see it all the time. The key is somewhere on a ring of keys or they can't find the key...it was just here....Oh I'll be right back. And where it was supposed to have been was in plain sight in arms reach of a window.

And if it is a half glass or full glass door it wouldn't take much to break the glass and climb or walk in. So I don't see the point.

The most glass I'd have in an entry door would be a view at the top. I'd stay away from pine finger joint jamb material and go with a solid wood harder than pine. On the exterior I would put the brick molding on with screws with a finish torq head or Roberts headed screw. If I had real concern I put in a metal jamb or reinforce the wood jamb with some angle iron. Replace those stock hinge screws with something a bit longer and replace the shims with something a bit more substantial like wood blocks.

Many of the 'New Construction' I have replaced have little to no shims and they are held in place with 18ga. finish nails inside and out. Pull off the trim and they just about fall out.

Generally speaking you have about an inch of play between the rough opening and the jamb...makes easy work for a Wonderbar if it the door is lacking in the shim dept.
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Old 02-05-2010, 19:57   #59
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I've heard from those who had the double lock deadbolts that they prevent the intruder who crawls through a window from getting out with their "stuff". They're also really good for keeping you inside during a fire. Testosterone is good, but only in proper amounts.

On the alarm systems, you can check Sears, Radio Shack, etc., for systems that are really simple and inexpensive. "High dollar" just means someone paid too much.
If you are at all DIY, then you can install a really good system for under $200 dollars.
Unless you are very isolated or live in an area where nobody cares what happens in the neighborhood, I see no sense to the systems that notify a commercial service who will send the PD by in 10 or 15 minutes.
A loud visible system that draws all eyes to the house will cause most to leave.

My "smile, you're on video" signs, front and back are probably a major deterrent as well.
Fire or what ever the situation ease of exit is what I was getting at.

Regarding the alarms, every customer I have that has one, the sensors are only on the doors and windows, and there are other points of entry that are not 'secured'. I think residential security systems are a deterrent, but 'Mike at Brinks' breeds a false sense of security for many I know. A dog would have been a better investment IMO.

A good percentage of burglaries in my area happen without breaking anything...they use key codes they obtained somewhere and they drive around with garage door openers to see which doors will open.

One family I know, had there entire house cleaned out, all 4000 to 5000 sq ft gone while they were on vacation! There was no forced entry. All their neighbors noticed was some big trucks in the drive and they thought the house was being worked on.

JMO.....If someone wants in your house they will get in. The best you can do is make it as difficult as possible without putting yourself at risk.
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Old 02-05-2010, 20:24   #60
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JMO.....If someone wants in your house they will get in. The best you can do is make it as difficult as possible without putting yourself at risk.
Exactly. I'm of the opinion regarding alarms and signs are to make your home less desirable relative to your neighbors home rather than make it burglar proof.

In many of my self-defense strategies I use the following as an analogy. Kind of cynical, but when my life is at stake, well ...

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During a camping trip, Sam and Tom saw a bear coming their way. Sam started to take off his backpack and told Tom he was going to run for it. When his surprised friend said, "You can't outrun a bear," Sam replied, "I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun you."
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