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Old 05-15-2011, 18:05   #16
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Originally Posted by The Reaper View Post
I don't think that came out quite the way you intended.

You never know - there is a reason it's called a shit-eating grin.

Back to the OP - I spent my summers growing up working on small-time beef and pig farms. The pigs were definitely easier to manage and required less space and supervision. Chickens were fairly low-maintenance as well, and provided eggs as an ongoing food source as well.
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Old 05-15-2011, 18:53   #17
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I don't think that came out quite the way you intended.

TR
My stepson is Ojibwa. His people used to make a stew out of small birds and employed fresh rabbit droppings as a thickener, or so said his great-uncle. They would pluck the birds and then pound them into a paste, bones, beaks, guts and all, and throw the mess into the pot with native garlic and wild rice. Yum.
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Old 05-15-2011, 18:58   #18
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Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc View Post
You never know - there is a reason it's called a shit-eating grin.
LMAO

Back in 2006 I set up on a Fire base Chickens, Rabbits, Turkeys and a small small within the FB.

This last trip our 18C got some turkeys, we had a great Thanksgiving and going away dinners.
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Old 05-17-2011, 13:21   #19
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Cow (bovine) raising

Okay.. Nothing on Cow or bovine just figured someone would have back home or during a FFA project.

These are things I have learned over the years. You don’t need much land to raise a cow or cows. You can have an area of 4 to 6 to 10 acres. Yes it is best to have an area for them to graze on. Also water was a big thing; they need a lot of water. I have seen in Bosnia to Afghanistan dairy cow “pinned” up in a “room. These rooms were big enough for the cow and typically had an open for the cows head to come out and eat hay for a feeder. The room had a doorway and from this doorway the cow manure would be used for compost. Typically winter times the hay would be the issue. In Bosnia the farmer would have a hay stack that was 25 ft or more tall. Within the U.S. those large hay rolls 2 to 4 cows can go through one of them every one to two weeks. But a cow will feed a lot of people for weeks if you can keep the meat. If not you best know how to dry and/or smoke the meat. Bosnians were awesome at this.

This much I do know from being around the world. Female Cows cost more. This is because of their milk. This cost of the cow and her offspring’s are driven typically by how much milk she can produce. If you look at it in liters and she can produce 80 litters in a week she will cost more or her offspring will. Male Cow (Bulls or OX depended on where you’re at) are driven by the kind of offspring they have and their size. Beef Cattle/ Bulls are based off their size, how big they get.

In Afghanistan you many find Dairy Cows. The cows of Kandahar and Afghnistan (that I have seen) give good large quantities of milk. If you can get the humped variety is best due to their ablilty to hold more water. Just a in western USA. Dairy produce is important in Afghan diet, especially the pressed and dried curd called krut. Take your anti marlia pills!! We have had guys come up with TB, most likely due to eating this type of chesse. Their all good, just can't give blood ever. In Afghnistan many of us have been within those compounds where you find that cow in the mud room think how in the Frak they get this thing in here. It grow up in that room!! Typically Afghans will only keep the cow outside or have the ablility to let it come outside of its pin due to her being of good quality for breeding. Amount of milk her mother produced and what she makes a day. You will pay more for this too.
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Old 05-17-2011, 13:45   #20
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You never know - there is a reason it's called a shit-eating grin. Raising RABBITs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie View Post
We raised rabbits when I was a kid. They are easy to raise, produce food fast and easy to butcher. All you need is a heavy stick to kill them and a knife to butcher them. One buck (male) and two does will produce a large amount of food. On top of being good to eat the feces is good fertlizer. Here is a link I googled about raising rabbits.

http://www.survival-homestead.com/raising-rabbits.html
Okay seem like people know a thing or two about raising Rabbits so let’s go down this road.

I have raised rabbits as a teenager and while deployed in Afghanistan. Yes they are raise and really not much to do except to feed them and give them water. But you have a local to do all that for you. Most Afghans don’t raise rabbits for some reason. While others eat the hell out of them.

Here are some links I used in country. Even had locals build use a pin for our rabbits off these. BLUF you don’t need that many males, they fight over the females. It can get bloody too. Kills off you Bucks (Male Rabbits) first. Rule of thumb I say is one Buck for every 4 to 6 does; one male per pin or cage. Make a Pin for the female that is pregnant too.

http://www.rudolphsrabbitranch.com/rrrpt1.htm

http://www.wikihow.com/Raise-Rabbits-for-Food

Good overall reading..

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Susta...y-Rabbits.aspx

Good information video. http://www.raisingmeatrabbits.com/

Making Rabbit pins/Cages:

Here is a Base cage that would work good at home.

http://msucares.com/livestock/small_animal/pub1195.pdf

Here is a place to give you some ideas too. http://www.rabbit-cages-and-hutches....bit-cages.html

This is the best one I found as far as getting free plans. I used the rabbit hutch one to show my locals to build and it worked. You can use these not just for rabbits but many other live stocks.

Best way down range are taking 3’x3’x3’ HESCO section and taken off the fabric and med or small pickets and driving them into the ground. Place the HESCO wire over the Pickets and zip ties them or wire bound them together. Cut a side section doorway with your bolt cutters and make hinges out of zip ties. If you have the Wood a piece of ply across the top works fine. If not wood use what the local are using for the Goat sheds, typically crow stocks. Keep in mind when you emplace the pin/cage that you will have to move it at some point. The 3’x3’x3’ HESCO section with its three section works great and you don’t need to put a picket on each corner, the four outside ones and a couple on the insides. You can take the 2’x2’x2’ HESCO section and cut them down to two or three section and build a “table” stand for the three section. This way you have a Cage that can be move just about anywhere.

So what worked for you? How many did you have? Cages or pins used? Feed used?

Have you done anything like this one your deployments? What worked and what didn't?

Lets keep thise rabbit related too, we will move one to other live stocks.
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:16   #21
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Originally Posted by Brush Okie View Post
I dont want to wear out my welcome since I am not QP but we raised a couple of calves as well as hogs. Since hogs wouldnt go over well in our current AO I will talk a little about cattle.

First there are cows made for being milked and cows designed for raised for beef. A buddy of mine years ago bought a milk cow to raise as beef. Yes you can eat a milk cow but the return is not like it is on a beef cow for meat. There are other facters. FYI a CA bn. usually has some sort of vet on the TOE if at Bn. level they have them at higher level or at leat should. Recruiting into CA has been difficult at best the last few years. Most of the big army doesent even know what CA is let alone the capabilties and what we can bring to the table. Below is a link I found. Someone can shorten the link for me since I dont know how.

http://74.6.117.48/search/srpcache?e...fImWIsyxIy.w--
Brush Okie I'm good with you posting your experiences on raising whatever you have during your life. I want to get the knowledge out for other SF guys that have been coming into SF from Good Ol' Urban USA and not Farmville USA. To everyone else, I welcome your posting on raising live stock and when I get into Farm on a large and small scale I ask you to post. If an ADMIN/MOD feel different please direct fire as needed.

I'm not one to keep knowledge to myself. I don't see knowledge as power I see as something everyone can learn from or gain from.

Yes a big diffence on Beef and Milk Cow. Just becuase you have a MALE bull of a "Milking" breed doesn't make for a good cow for meat. The link is good, I like too that you can download a PDF file for SF guys to take downrange on their ODA External Hard Drive.

I had this emailed to me here on PS.com:
Quote:
One of the older, more experienced men always kept at least 1( usually more) Brahma heifer in his herd. They look a bit raggedy, but he said they are better with water consumption (able to store more) They may not produce offspring for the first 2-5 years, but after that he said they will consistently produce a calf every year. (he still has a brahma heifer that he's kept for 24 years)

Another thing he swears is that you should never let chickens get around the hay that is used for the cattle. He said that the chicken shit can be toxic for the cows.
As far the chicken shit can be toxic for the cows, YES this is one of the main causes of MAD COW Disease. We will cover this in the chicken part of this tread. Chicken can wreak a farm!!
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Old 05-18-2011, 10:55   #22
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As far the chicken shit can be toxic for the cows, YES this is one of the main causes of MAD COW Disease. We will cover this in the chicken part of this tread. Chicken can wreak a farm!!
This is incorrect - I verified with the former manager/assistant director for the National Prion Disease Pathology Surveillance Center (aka MRFL).

Cattle fed with feeds containing chicken feces also are likely have cattle parts which, prior to strict regulations due to BSE (Mad Cow), could be from downer cattle that may or may not have had BSE. Thus, chicken feces in the feed is associated with Mad Cow (via feed also using downer beef), but not believed to be a cause.

The current understanding is prion disease is only transmissed through direct exposure to "infected" nervous tissue. As MRFL put it - the chickens would have to be literally shitting their brains out to cause this.

HTH

ETA: E. coli and other pathogenic bacteria are found in feces and can be toxic to the cattle, however. So the chicken scat is not harmless.
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:02   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc View Post
This is incorrect - I verified with the former manager/assistant director for the National Prion Disease Pathology Surveillance Center (aka MRFL).

Cattle fed with feeds containing chicken feces also are likely have cattle parts which, prior to strict regulations due to BSE (Mad Cow), could be from downer cattle that may or may not have had BSE. Thus, chicken feces in the feed is associated with Mad Cow (via feed also using downer beef), but not believed to be a cause.

The current understanding is prion disease is only transmissed through direct exposure to "infected" nervous tissue. As MRFL put it - the chickens would have to be literally shitting their brains out to cause this.

HTH

ETA: E. coli and other pathogenic bacteria are found in feces and can be toxic to the cattle, however. So the chicken scat is not harmless.
DOC - Thanks for the post and information!! GREAT!!
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:06   #24
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I had this book PMed tyo me. I looked on Amazon and seemd to be something good aqnd helpful.

The Cattle Health Handbook by Heather Smith Thomas. It is more about diseases & treatments etc.. It may be a good reference guide for the "field". Especially considering there aren't any veterinary people readily available.

I had this sent to me by a helpful gurl... there are a bazillion websites on google about cattle. howtoraisecattle.com.
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Old 05-20-2011, 08:56   #25
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PAck Animals

Nice post Okie... Here is the SF Pack Animals FM


This covers a lot of what you posted here.

You can down load this from here or you can go to SWC and USASAOC refernces section on their portals to download them. Along with a Ton of other useful FM for all the ODA guys.

Here is another good reading paper on feeding dockey's. Maybe be American Dockey's but it's good information still. The Guide To Proper CARE & FEEDING of the AMERICAN DONKEY
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:48   #26
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Okay with nothing on Sheep I take nothing on Goats too??

Like how many how or did you rasie at one time. Have you ever taken care of Goats or Sheep?

How big was your holding area or pin?

How much did you feed them in a given time frame? Weekly feed amounts, cost, etc.

Did you ever have any births to deal with? What did you have to do?
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Old 05-25-2011, 10:33   #27
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Sheep and Goats

Okay this is what I have learned from living in Afghanistan and how they do what they do.

The goat is one of the smallest domesticated animals within Central Asia which has served many in Afghanistan longer than cattle and sheep. Many due to the terrain or people of Afghanistan. Most Afghans raise Goats for the production of milk, meat and wool, particularly in desert, wooded, cities or mountainous areas of Afghanistan. Most keep or raise goats for their milk, cheese and meat, and sheep for wool and meat. Sheep and Goats are also kept typically for cashmere wool, leather and dung for making money for the household. Goats and Sheep are used for their dung for cooking in the more desert areas of Afghanistan and more people consume goat milk and milk products. Not many Afghanistan’s raise goats for cheese production from goat milk. Goats can survive on all types of bushes, lower trees, desert scrub of the Helmand and western Afghanistan areas. If you keep them on or near your FireBase for food for yourself or ANA you must watch out for (or your care keeper) of over-grazing has destroyed many tree and crops of your local area. I think the biggest breed of goats you will find in Afghanistan is the Cashmere goat breed. Not sure if that is a real world bredd, but that is what Afghans called the goat we had and would eat. There are two different kinds I have seen running wild in Afghanistan, I was told but never did any kind of hunting for meat there. But ANA said they would eat them for food.

I have seen or had three different types of goats in Afghanistan.

In Afghanistan goat milk is valued for the elderly, sick, babies, people with ulcers, and Afghanistan have even feed it to their children with cow milk allergies. Goat milk casein protein and goat milk fat are more easily digested than from cow milk from what I have been told by medic and can help with guys down range. I don’t what basis is behind this statement.

While in Afghanistan I have had and we raised two different types of sheep. Well we didn’t but our locals did for us. One breed has a white full coat, the other a tan/ beige russet or black one. You see more flocks of sheep the nomad population due for money, and mutton is the chief animal food of them and for a lot of Afghanistan. We had locals that would slaughtered the sheep and goats, take their carcasses and them cut up, rubbed with salts, and dried in the sun. They would use this like a goat jerky for patrolling.

Our goats were kept in a pin. Locals would keep them within their living compounds. Kids would walk them during the daytime on the mountains or open areas. They had feed in the compound area during the winter time and water for them. You really don’t need much for them IMHO just some medium pickets, barbwire and something for shade.

Here is a good web site I found when we had some. http://www.farminfo.org/livestock/goats.htm
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Old 05-29-2011, 16:51   #28
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The National Guard's Agribusiness Development Teams

Has anyone, I say in the RC-East, worked any of these Teams?? If anyone knows anyone that has been on one these ADT please PM me.

The National Guard's Agribusiness Development Teams

WASHINGTON (10/6/09) - The National Guard's Agribusiness Development Teams are promoting sustainable farming practices in Afghanistan and are an innovative way for Guardmembers to use civilian-acquired skills in the region, a Guard official said today.

The teams, which started out with one team from Missouri, have evolved to roughly a dozen dispersed throughout Afghanistan, Army Col. Marty Leppert told an audience here at the annual convention of the Association of the United States Army. Leppert oversees the program for the director of the Army National Guard.

"These guys have just done incredible work in the last two-and-a-half years," Leppert said. They have stimulated Afghan agriculture, he said.

For the teams, that means engaging with local farmers and helping them to get past many of their challenges, such as water and infrastructure issues.

"Eighty percent of Afghanistan depends on agriculture for its livelihood," said Leppert. "So it's incredibly important that if we're going to attack all the challenges and ills that involve Afghanistan it's important that we attack agriculture as a need."

The big focus has been on education and building capability, he said. But the number one issue is water.
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Old 05-29-2011, 17:16   #29
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Hey brother -

Dive into Mother Earth Magazine. http://www.motherearthnews.com/,

It is a good sourse of information and some of what you're looking for.

WD
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Old 05-29-2011, 20:26   #30
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WD - Thanks nice informational site.

Here is something for guys to look at. Good amount of information for SF Leaders.

Going Outside the Wire: Liaising With Special Operation Forces to Rebuild Agriculture in Afghanistan
by Daniel Miller


We cannot enter into alliances with neighboring princes until we are acquainted with their designs. We are not fit to lead an army on the march unless we are familiar with the face of the country – its mountains and forests, its pit falls and precipices, its marshes and swamps. We shall be unable to turn natural advantages to account unless we make use of local guides.
-Sun Tzu, 490 BC

Introducing a paper on agricultural development with a quote from the ancient Chinese war strategist, Sun Tzu, may seem like a novel way to begin, but designing effective rural development programs in the mountains of Afghanistan, where an active Taliban and al-Qa’ida insurgency is still taking place, requires innovative, “out-of-the-box” solutions. Counterinsurgency work must involve not only military operations, but integrated civilian efforts. The civilian efforts include programs sponsored by the host nation, international development/relief and non-governmental organizations, and donor nations.

Since early December 2001, the international development community has supported the reconstruction of Afghanistan and a number of new approaches to working in conflict and post-conflict environments, including with the military, have been developed. One noteworthy example is the use of Provincial Reconstruction Teams (PRTs) to support reconstruction and capacity building.

The model for PRTs developed from the early success of U.S. Army Civil Affairs (CA) teams, working with U.S. Army Special Operations Forces (SOF), which includes special forces, Rangers, Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations soldiers, to conduct limited “hearts and minds” reconstruction projects and to work with local Afghan security forces to provide security in an area. Expanding on this experience, in November 2002, the concept of Joint Regional Teams was proposed to assist in stabilizing Afghanistan and to facilitate reconstruction. In January 2003, the name was changed to Provincial Reconstruction Teams PRTs).

Established as a means to extend the reach and enhance the legitimacy and effectiveness of the Afghan central government into the provinces, the first PRT was established in Gardez, Paktia Province, in February 2003. The primary mission of PRTs is to create stability in an area so that physical, political, economic and social development can take place. Provincial Reconstruction Teams may engage in reconstruction to achieve that goal (just as they may engage in combat operations) but PRTs are neither a combat force nor a development organization. As of the writing of this article, there are 25 PRTs operating in Afghanistan. Provincial Reconstruction Teams are civil-military teams, composed of from 70-100 personnel (Non-US PRTs are actually much larger because they don’t have the maneuver elements nearby like the US model. Those can get as large as 500). Each agency involved in a PRT brings different assets to the team. The military provides basic “life support” such as housing, food, medical, communications, transportation and security to ensure all agencies can operate effectively. They also bring skills such as planning, logistics, reporting, intelligence collection and psychological operations. In the case of the US military, they have money to fund small reconstruction projects to win over the population.

The civilian diplomats are crucial to ensuring those in military commands have accurate and timely situational awareness. They can raise key issues to the decision makers often bypassing bureaucracies of partner agencies. The development specialists, and in many places, agricultural experts are critical to overseeing often millions of dollars in reconstruction projects. The development officers are also responsible for ensuring any projects funded by the military component of the PRT are developmentally sound and will do no harm to the community in the long term. The PRTs were designed and organized to adapt to the needs and conditions of the area where they operated and no two PRTs are identical in their number of personnel or stability strategies.

Provincial Reconstruction Teams have played an important role in the stabilization and development of Afghanistan and provide a valuable model for integrating civilian and military capabilities to assist in both improving security and extending the reach of the central government. While encouraging, there is still considerable territory in Afghanistan beyond the reach of the PRTs where development assistance is urgently needed.

The eastern border region of Afghanistan is one example. Here, where counterinsurgency operations are still on-going against al Qaida and Taliban insurgents, U.S. Special Forces (SF) teams, a number of them with civil affairs (CA) elements attached to them, are active. The civil affairs teams attached to these SF teams often focus on hard structures that will be a constant visual reminder of the government such as building schools; constructing health clinics, and implementing other small-scale activities to encourage support for the Afghan government. To date, the development community has done little to integrate their efforts with these SF/CA teams.

In late 2005, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), embarking on an innovative effort to coordinate development assistance with U.S. special operation forces (SOF) teams, placed a development specialist with SOF in Afghanistan. This individual arranged for me to work with a SF/CA team in Paktika province. This paper discusses some of the insights from that experience and highlights approaches that could be taken to better integrate military and civilian operations and to promote agriculture development in Afghanistan in areas where PRTs are not operating. This was a radical shift from the traditional hard-structure type of winning hearts and minds activities SOF was used to.
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