2018 SOTU

[cat in the hat]

I like some of the things Trump has accomplished but do not think he is exceptionally intelligent. I have heard better public speakers in small town city council meetings. Message aside, his delivery and mannerisms are uninspiring.

And I'll add that a buddy of mine with the NSA says that briefings have to be tailored to support his existing opinion rather than what the intel actually suggests.
Since ALL of the intelligence chiefs disagreed with him on live tv, I tend to believe the reports that he ignores the information he does not like.

I have not read his book so I have to ask, is there a chapter that details the need to pick unnecessary fights with potential allies?
Imagine if Trump had not pissed of Mcain.
Mcain may have voted to repeal obamacare and to fund the wall instead of sticking it to Trump as he died.

It is sad that the best thing I can say about him is that he is better than hillary (who I agree should be locked up)

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by cat in the hat

I like some of the things Trump has accomplished but do not think he is exceptionally intelligent. I have heard better public speakers in small town city council meetings. Message aside, his delivery and mannerisms are uninspiring.

And I'll add that a buddy of mine with the NSA says that briefings have to be tailored to support his existing opinion rather than what the intel actually suggests.
Since ALL of the intelligence chiefs disagreed with him on live tv, I tend to believe the reports that he ignores the information he does not like.

I have not read his book so I have to ask, is there a chapter that details the need to pick unnecessary fights with potential allies?
Imagine if Trump had not pissed of Mcain.
Mcain may have voted to repeal obamacare and to fund the wall instead of sticking it to Trump as he died.


It is sad that the best thing I can say about him is that he is better than hillary (who I agree should be locked up)

Nobody is perfect. I think that you have to take the bad with the good. And IMHO the good far outweighs the bad.

The country needed Trump. Sure we could have elected Hillary or the Repubs could have nominated a candidate who was more "Presidential" (Demspeak for, "willing to accept Dem double standards, not willing to take on tough problems, willing to compromise as long as the compromise results in a "progressive" solution, or just plain willingness to compromise their integrity by abandoning every promise made on the campaign trail).

Trump is an independent that co-opted the Repub party election machine by bullying it into submission. Only he could have done it, IMO. Would it be nice if he could change his style, but one can only buck every bit of "conventional wisdom" so many times before it becomes your default.... and a fault. And he has that, IMO, for sure.


I think that the better question to ponder would be, Why do we have career politicians like McCain, and a host on the Repub side who put personal interests and petty animosity in front of what is best for their State and the American people as a whole? Why is it that the left can move in lock step while the Republicans can't do the same when they have the majority? But then again I have to go back the fact that Trump is not an establishment Republican.

I just can't understand why almost half of the American electorate willing to place more weight on Trump's combative style and believe the extreme left's talking points (like Trump is a racist for example) than the fact that Trump is actually trying to move the mountain of self-serving bureaucracy in DC to at least somewhat do things that are in the greater good, imperfectly sure, but more than any President in recent memory (or ever?)?

As far as tailoring briefings... Did Trump order them to do that or is that a symptom of the lack of integrity of the people that make up the Bureaucracy at the NSA?

[Ret10Echo]

Seeing this reported by the Daily Mail...

Rasmussen tracking poll HERE

Trump's approval rating among likely voters soars to his best in 23 MONTHS at 52 per cent after State of the Union address as border-wall shutdown talks intensify

Rasmussen Reports poll as Trump at 52 per cent approval, his best showing in 23 months and a higher number than his winning edge in 2016
Significant up-swing since government-shutdown low of 43 per cent
New numbers were collected in the three days immediately following State of the Union address
Polling average is just 42.4 per cent, including mostly those surveys that are open to all Americans; Rasmussen polls only 'likely voters'

[Golf1echo]

Originally Posted by cat in the hat

I have not read his book so I have to ask, is there a chapter that details the need to pick unnecessary fights with potential allies?
Imagine if Trump had not pissed of Mcain.
Mcain may have voted to repeal obamacare and to fund the wall instead of sticking it to Trump as he died.

I've wondered about the same thing regarding picking fights, then I think about George H W Bush's reelection campaign...he was certainly a gentleman politician and he lost that one to the clinton machine...imagine if that one went the other way. Politics isn't a gentleman's sport. My observation is that McCain was who he was and had been for a long while before President Trump came onto the political scene.

I voted for President Trump because he was an outsider, a disruptor, and because he forwarded ideas I believe in. After the performance of recent executives regarding what they promise to get elected and what they actually do in office once they get there... I'm amazed he has stayed on course as much as he has.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Golf1echo

I voted for President Trump because he was an outsider, a disruptor...

When the pretty snow globe has been filled too high, you have to shake it to really see what's underneath.

Just think in the past 18 months the scenes we've been able to see. The commies had a brief moment when their own pundits told them "you completely misjudged the electorate in America and THAT's why you lost." Wasn't couched in polite terms so they discarded that notion. Now, instead of "heeding experienced counsel" and actually willing to look for concensus, they have pulled the curtain all the way back to reveal their full-on hatred of America that isn't made in the image of central government control they seek. They keep shaking that globe; it keeps revealing daily what full-retard - politically - looks like. But they are dangerous, make no mistake about that. My sigline I stole from Peregrino applies.

[tonyz]

Tucker Carlson’s book does an pretty good job of explaining how we got Trump. I truly enjoyed reading it - although it can be a bit sobering to read (with simple examples) just how far off course the nation’s political elites have veered.

https://www.amazon.com/Ship-Fools-Se.../dp/1501183664

[GratefulCitizen]

Trump isn't afraid to "shake the box" (a term coined by Scott Adams) to change circumstances.
This method is very unsettling to those with a lower risk tolerance (i.e. most everyone in government).

But, it is his way, and he's been reasonably successful using it for nearly a half century.
He knows how to steer through chaos and win.

[doctom54]

Originally Posted by Golf1echo

......
I voted for President Trump because he was an outsider, a disruptor, and because he forwarded ideas I believe in. After the performance of recent executives regarding what they promise to get elected and what they actually do in office once they get there... I'm amazed he has stayed on course as much as he has.

That was the reason I voted for him also. NOT a typical politician.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I voted for the courts and the hope that the Republic could survive just a little while longer. I am pleasantly surprised to see that the man I reluctantly voted for and who promised all that he is doing his best to deliver - against all odds - and seemingly against every single political body of Washington D.C. is doing exactly that against his own egotistical self.

Cruz would have buckled long ago and Kaish (sic) is just another Washington swamp creature. None of the others had a chance to beat Killary; the Republic, on life support after the last administration would be finished by now already.

I will happily vote for President Trump in the next election because “2020” is as clear to me as 20/20 and the vision to save the country from fascism and total nihilism the libtards believe in.

To me the SOTU speech was right up there with JFK’s “Moon” speech, Lincoln’s “Emancipation” speech and just a couple others in history to include the Bush’s reason for going to war in Afghanistan and Iraq even though I knew deep down in my heart that is was a very very bad idea to attack an ideology with bullets.

Trump is doing one hell of a job even with all the distractions and personal attacks.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

To me the SOTU speech was right up there with JFK’s “Moon” speech, Lincoln’s “Emancipation” speech and just a couple others in history . . . Trump is doing one hell of a job even with all the distractions and personal attacks.

Including tonight's home run over the Rio Grande in El Peso (sic).

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by cat in the hat

I like some of the things Trump has accomplished but do not think he is exceptionally intelligent. I have heard better public speakers in small town city council meetings. Message aside, his delivery and mannerisms are uninspiring.

You are missing the intelligence I speak of....being hyper articulate like an Obama is not intelligent.....personal preference on speaking styles does not signify it....what Trump does is he has a strong instinct and understanding of the spirit of a room and the nation....its the content and simplicity of his message that is genius....million dollar words and trained inflections by speaking experts does not make a great speaker....Trump reads and understands people and IMO when he contradicts people its not because of a lack of strategy.

And I'll add that a buddy of mine with the NSA says that briefings have to be tailored to support his existing opinion rather than what the intel actually suggests.
Since ALL of the intelligence chiefs disagreed with him on live tv, I tend to believe the reports that he ignores the information he does not like.

Obama fired and replaced Chiefs until he got what he wanted...Sycophants....those that support his agenda. I personally don't trust the "intelligence chiefs" either...in my entire SF career I have never seen a raw report make it to the Chiefs...I have seen changed reports and everything below the tear line missing...I don't trust the motives of those at the top the middle east is a prime example of the military industrial complex with plenty of contract subsidiaries being lobbied for in Congress....There is not one single law on the books that prevents the lobbyist firms and elected officials from "colluding".

I have not read his book so I have to ask, is there a chapter that details the need to pick unnecessary fights with potential allies?
Imagine if Trump had not pissed of Mcain.
Mcain may have voted to repeal obamacare and to fund the wall instead of sticking it to Trump as he died.

McCain? a completely self serving power hungry sociopath....I separate his war service from what he did once he got power....McCain's #1 priority was McCain not his constituents. What shocks me about your comment is you believe Trump caused McCain to screw his constituents and not sign to repeal Obamacare and fund the wall??? I would think a rational person would ask where McCain's character was....was this righteous indignation? McCain was part of the swamp!!.

It is sad that the best thing I can say about him is that he is better than hillary (who I agree should be locked up)

Agreed

Trump is still your President

[Box]

hahaha
So - If Trump was an ass kisser, McCain would have been a better senator?

I'm so confused by modern politics

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Box

hahaha
So - If Trump was an ass kisser, McCain would have been a better senator?

I'm so confused by modern politics

Sure. Instead McCain took a hot-tip from a staffer about an admittedly questionable document, that was not yet in official channels, let alone a piece of evidence, and did he take it to the campaign of his party's nominee and say, "Hey, there's this thing floating around out there..."? No, he behaved like the vindictive little boy he was.

I don't personally care about that at this point, just goes to McCain's character, which has been on display for all to see. The final coffin-nail for me was the way he treated some family members of MIAs. Screw him and his self-absorbed ass.

[exhale] Now back to the snow shovel-based cardio program.

[cat in the hat]

I have never said mcain was a good senator or that his final votes were a good thing. I pointed out that trump did not have to attack him on a personal level (eg, i like people who weren't shot down) some people are capable of having civilized disagreements without resorting to mud slinging or ad hominem attacks.

I am not missing the intelligence you speak of, I am saying I do not think he highly intelligent. Yes he is a salesman and can convince people who are predisposed to agreeing with him.
His learned and studied speech patterns are designed to gain trust among his target audience. If he were targeting intellectuals he would use a larger vocabulary and present arguments differently or at least more coherently. Employing a salesman trick is not a sign of intelligence. Sometimes it helps to read transcripts of speaches.

Not sure how or why obama enters into this discussion. I have never and will never defend him.

Yes I think that it is possible that trumps personal attack against mcain may have played a part in mcains decision to scew us all in the obama care repeal vote. Not sure why you choose to infer that i say it was a good thing or that mcain was justified. I did say on another thread that his political career does not justify disparaging his military career.

I will say it is simple to separate trumps military service from everything else because his bone spurs would not really get in the way of real estate deals or reality TV shows. Especially if you are "like, really smart"

I don't believe that politicians care for anyone or anything more than they do about getting re elected and staying in power.

Yes he is the president, the same as obama was and bush and clinton. I refuse buy into a cult of personality.

Since I seem to have stirred up the hornets nest why not go for the whole thing.
When is mexico going to pay for the reinforced concrete wall he promised?
I'm working off of my phone so hard to look up exactly how many close advisors have plead guilty? Or been indicted?
How much is he worth? Where are his tax returns?
What is the name of the only bank that will still do business with him?
How many bankruptcies has he filed? How many people/contactors has he refused to pay for services rendered?
How many illegals does he still employ at his resorts?
What is the definition of executive time? How many rounds of golf has he played since his inauguration?

Feel free to answer any of those or simply ask yourself why is it so important that I (or anyone else) agree with you?

[Old Dog New Trick]

You’ve stirred up nothing but an opposing viewpoint and that’s perfectly fine, there are many things I don’t like about Trump and he was never my first, second, or third choice he became my only choice and so I support him in his endeavors.

I think you an WD ultimately would agree to more than the amount you disagree to but the debate is healthy.

As for the intelligence chiefs saying one thing (counter reaction) in public what are they saying in private “classified” briefings to the POTUS? I can think (correctly) that all of the three letter alphabet intelligence agencies of the last thirty plus years have been led by incompetent partisans who don’t understand real intelligence and how best to use it. Better than 90% of all the things that have gone wrong in the world could have been averted in the first place if people acted on the raw data collected on a daily basis through all available sources. WWI and II, Korean War, Vietnam, Iranian Revolution, Golf War I, the bombings of numerous American targets from the USS Cole to Kobar Tower and two Embassies in Africa and the aftermath of 9/11 didn’t have to happen if our intelligence apparatus worked without playing politics and sugar coating the data down to meaningless bullet points on a PowerPoint slide.

What I believe is the president is saying he’s not for permawar and his right hand man (was General John Kelly) said, “Sir, it’s time to draw down the troops in Syria before we get stuck rebuilding that country too. The Generals in the JCOS, the CIA and NSC are going to publicly denounce you but the alternative is fighting a long lasting war with the Soviet Union and there are no winners!”

There is a right way and a wrong way to de-escalate war and combat engagement but there is no really good way to withdraw without fighting in reverse. The CIA and the Generals I’m sure would like to see their budgets based on numerical data of successes around the world and not how do we train a peacetime military at home. (Anecdotally based on the actions of Niger and some other people we know caught up in the politics of war (crimes) how the Generals and intelligence agencies deal with failure. Blame the lowest responsible party regardless of fault!)

I really have no idea who briefed the POTUS or suggested he pull conventional troops out of Syria or western Iraq but someone did, I doubt Trump just woke up and “tweeted” today I’m announcing the withdrawal of all American forces from Syria because this isn’t our problem anymore let our allies in Europe continue to press the flesh.

The man is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. I just hope he does do it for the right reason and not political efficiency as a campaign promise like that guy before him with the express consent of the Democratic Congress and Secretary of State.

P.S. If everyone always agreed with each other the world would be a boring place!