How the Islamist Mindset Rationalizes — and Promotes — ‘Sex Sins’

[Slantwire]

Originally Posted by LJ19

But Jesus doesn't ever condemn those who have slaves, and he never says physical slavery should end.

You fault Jesus for not speaking out against slavery.

Mohammad laid out specific rules for the taking and handling of slaves.

Do you consider those to be equivalent?

[Bordercop]

The Koran covers quite a few different beliefs that the New Testament doesn't cover, like:

Qur’an 33.27 And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.

Qur’an 21:44 Do they see Us advancing, gradually reducing the land (in their control), curtailing its borders on all sides? It is they who will be overcome.

Qur’an 9:123 “murder them and treat them harshly”

Qur’an 3.28 Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”

Qur’an 4.89 They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Qur’an 5:51 “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.”

Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who say; ‘God is the Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.”

Qur’an 8:12 cp. 8:60 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”

Qur’an 2:191 “...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”

Qur’an 9.33 He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions.

Qur’an 2:193 “And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah”

Qur’an 8:71 And if they intend to act unfaithfully towards you, so indeed they acted unfaithfully towards Allah before, but He GAVE YOU MASTERY OVER THEM

Qur’an 8:55 Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve.

Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Qur’an 48:13 Those who “believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!”

Qur’an 3:54 “‘Lord, we believe in Your revelations (the Torah and Gospels) and follow this Apostle (Jesus). Enroll us among the witnesses.’ But the Christians contrived a plot and Allah did the same; but Allah’s plot was the best.”

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think they can bypass (Islamic law or the punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot escape.”

Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels (non-Muslims) out to the last.’”

Qur’an 8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”

Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah’s enemy.”

Qur’an 8:60 “Prepare against them (non-Muslims) whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah (non-Muslims), and others besides them not known to you. Whatever you spend in Allah’s Cause will be repaid in full, and no wrong will be done to you.”

Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels (non-Muslims) out to the last.’”

Qur’an 4:101 “The unbelievers (non-Muslims) are your inveterate foe.”

Qur’an 8:60 “Prepare against them (non-Muslims) whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah (non-Muslims), and others besides them not known to you. Whatever you spend in Allah’s Cause will be repaid in full, and no wrong will be done to you.”

Bukhari:V4B56N814 “There was a Christian who embraced Islam and he used to write the revelations for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again he used to say: ‘Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him.’”

Qur’an 9.28 O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque (Mecca) after this year;

I could go on and on, but you get the point. When dealing with muslims the "Golden Rule" is do unto them before they do unto you. Don't believe that?
Take a trip to Yemen or Egypt or Iran and have a discussion about which relgion is correct. Bet you a quarter they cut your head off.

[LJ19]

Originally Posted by Pinhead

You fault Jesus for not speaking out against slavery.

Mohammad laid out specific rules for the taking and handling of slaves.

Do you consider those to be equivalent?

The bible also laid out specific rules for the taking and handling of slaves in the books of Exodus and Leviticus.

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by LJ19

The bible also laid out specific rules for the taking and handling of slaves in the books of Exodus and Leviticus.

Moses also had provisions for divorce.
The Savior had something to say on the matter:

Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."
Matthew 19:8 (NIV)

[afchic]

Originally Posted by LJ19

The bible also laid out specific rules for the taking and handling of slaves in the books of Exodus and Leviticus.

Once again, Old Testament vs New Testament. Christianity is based in deed on the new testament, and how Christ acted. Yes the Old Testament is important to Christians, but the New Testament is what we are all about.

What does Christ say about evil doers: "Offer the wicked man no resistance. On the contrary, if anyone hits you on the right cheek, offer him the other as well" (Matthew 5:38-39), Does the Koran have such a statement? Don't think so

[DevilSide]

Originally Posted by afchic

Once again, Old Testament vs New Testament. Christianity is based in deed on the new testament, and how Christ acted. Yes the Old Testament is important to Christians, but the New Testament is what we are all about.

What does Christ say about evil doers: "Offer the wicked man no resistance. On the contrary, if anyone hits you on the right cheek, offer him the other as well" (Matthew 5:38-39), Does the Koran have such a statement? Don't think so

Thats the biggest difference right there, the Qur'an encourages vengeance that can spark a blood feud that could last a couple generations. Have you ever seen anyone turn the other cheek for any occasion? I haven't, the same will go for governments just as it does with people. I think all religions in some way, are flawed by either being re-written or messed up from the start to fuel someone else's interests. What started the Crusades? I don't think God wanted anyone killing in his name, and for all we know the Pope said that to settle that land for Europe. Back in them days over in Jerusalem, I believe Muslims, Christians, Jews, and various sects got along better than they ever had in all the years of history, this was also seen in places like Toledo, Spain. Anyone can twist anything to their own interests, Islam is not a problem. There are drug addicted criminal types in Iraq/Afghanistan posing as "warriors of God" calling Jihad against us, and the underlings follow just like Crusaders. Ideology can go both ways, theres one or two things you might consider morale in the Qur'an *I haven't looked, but striking back when attacked seems to be all the rage in the real world* and in the Bible, there might be alot of good morales, but they will all have their flaws. So, I guess my message is, and I'm sure some will agree, don't make an enemy out of a religion. Not all Muslims are terrorists.

[LJ19]

I respect the points that those who side with the author have made. Arguing about religion tends to get people worked up though, so I think we're best off agreeing to disagree.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by LJ19

I respect the points that those who side with the author have made. Arguing about religion tends to get people worked up though, so I think we're best off agreeing to disagree.

What I believe is that Islam today represents a physical threat to all non-Islamic people, and Christianity does not.

Devilside, you might want to do some more reading on the Crusades, particularly the Moorish and Muslim invasions of Europe and the Christian efforts to repel them.

TR

[DevilSide]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Devilside, you might want to do some more reading on the Crusades, particularly the Moorish and Muslim invasions of Europe and the Christian efforts to repel them.

TR

I stand corrected, thanks for the info.

[Richard]

What I believe is that people are - for their own selfishly nefarious reasons - continuing to make use of some of the greatest popular works of fiction (which are little more than legendary hearsay, at best) to justify whatever drama, control or pain they can bequeath to their fellow man.

Personally, I find dramatic works such as "Inherit The Wind" much more to my liking, far more entertaining and thought provoking, and enormously enjoyable because they are far less likely to be made into something they aren't.

Richard's $.02

[akv]

Originally Posted by Richard

It is difficult for any rational thinking human to imagine so much hatred could be the result of three works of fiction, all perversely claiming to tell the truth and professing a love of peace - astounding

I agree faith is unfortunately too easily manipulated, your post made me think of an old quote.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

[dr. mabuse]

*

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by LJ19

I don't understand why Christianity is pitted against Islam to make it seem superior, however.

FWIW, I understand your point. I think 'critiques' of Islam would be more effective if they were offered from the perspective of Muslims. Many, if not most, belief systems can be dinged to death from an outsider's point of view and, arguably, can be dismissed by insiders.

IMO, asking repeatedly the questions: "Does your belief system really work for you? Are you happier for being a [fill in the blank]?" are ways to get people to talk about their own experiences, in their own terms.

Originally Posted by LJ19

Wouldn't the crusaders be described as "callous to human suffering" also ?

Judge for yourself.

The papal bull issued by Pope Innocent II that sanctioned the Knights Templar as "defenders of the Catholic Church and assailants of Christ's foes" is available here. It is noteworthy that their freedom of action is not restricted to Muslims but also includes other Christians as well as pagans.

The papal bull issued by Pope Eugene III to start the second crusade is available here.

IMO, a point to remember is that the notion of 'crusading,' in practice, described military operations over a wide geographic area against diverse groups of peoples. As a leading scholar on the topic recently told a (presumably) attentive audience.

Crusades were penitential war pilgrimages, fought not only in the Levant and throughout eastern Mediterranean region, but also along the Baltic shoreline, in North Africa, the Iberian Penninsula, Poland, Hungary and the Balkans and even within Western Europe. They were proclaimed not only against Muslims but also against paga Wends, Balts and Lithuanians, shamanist Mongols, Orthodox Russians and Greeks, Cathar and Hussite heretics, and those Catholics whom the church deemed to be its enemies.*

__________________________________________________ _________
* Jonathan Riley-Smith, The Crusades, Christianity, and Islam, the Bampton Lectures in America (New York: Cambridge University Press, 2008), p. 9.

[Richard]

Richard, you would enjoy a book called, " The Case for Christ".

Very enlightening.

It could have been - IF - the book had also included experts holding views skeptical of the historicity of the New Testament.

Have you read - Challenging the Verdict: A Cross-Examination of Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ"?

I believe Jesus was a person - as was Mohammad and Davy Crockett - beyond that - - and so the legends go...

Richard's jaded $.02

[craigepo]

Originally Posted by Richard

It could have been - IF - the book had also included experts holding views skeptical of the historicity of the New Testament.

Richard's jaded $.02

OK, since we're going to ignore Josephus, what exactly did the council of Nicea get wrong?