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Old 12-03-2012, 17:46   #1
Richard
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8 Principles For Dems Re: Fiscal Cliff

Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich and MoveOn.Org video for Democrats regarding the so-called "Fiscal Cliff".

http://front.moveon.org/dear-democra...m-robert-reich

IMO, Republicans need to take notes and wonder why the Dems are - yet again - outmaneuvering them when it comes to PR over issues like this.

And so it goes...

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Old 12-03-2012, 18:11   #2
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Because

Because as usual the press is on the side of the D's.

The Republicans could stand in front of the Capital and lay out exactly what they want to do. What would the national news report that evening? Evil Republicans want to starve the poor, kick granny out to the street and close the public schools.
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Old 12-03-2012, 18:52   #3
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How does the media keep the R's from setting up a website and making a video?

I watch ALL the network Sunday shows and I have yet to hear an R call POTUS or any of his wimpy lapdogs (Carney, Geitner, etc) on their continuous statements that 'the Rs don't want to raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires'. I didn't know those making $250,000 to $999,000 had been 'promoted'!
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Last edited by ZonieDiver; 12-03-2012 at 18:54. Reason: Spelling... probably got it wrong again.
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Old 12-03-2012, 19:09   #4
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Because as usual the press is on the side of the D's.

The Republicans could stand in front of the Capital and lay out exactly what they want to do. What would the national news report that evening? Evil Republicans want to starve the poor, kick granny out to the street and close the public schools.
I agree!! By #4 I was I can't help but wonder why is the press so biased on the liberal viewpoint? This is the antithesis of journalism at least as I understood it. What are we doing wrong? What do we need to do to change the dynamic?

The Republican party "as is" just doesn't seem to have a ground truth handle on the problem, let alone a plan. I am a little confused right now, as many others here may also be, as to what the solution is and how to execute.

Really good post as usual, Richard {Salute}
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Old 12-03-2012, 19:18   #5
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How does the media keep the R's from setting up a website and making a video?

I watch ALL the network Sunday shows and I have yet to hear an R call POTUS or any of his wimpy lapdogs (Carney, Geitner, etc) on their continuous statements that 'the Rs don't want to raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires'. I didn't know those making $250,000 to $999,000 had been 'promoted'!
It just occurred to me when reading your post, Zonie. My complaining in the earlier reply is simply about the lack of leadership - Duh! WE NEED A F'N LEADER WITH SOME F'N BALLS!! Yeah, Yeah I know - How sexist and politically incorrect of me! Before anyone is offended , I mean that figuratively

There, now I feel better
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Old 12-03-2012, 20:25   #6
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The majority of the ol' Republican Party just doesn’t get it and never will, their word is lost, muddied and worthless. When out of power they preach smaller govt’, fiscal constraint and personal liberties. But when they are in power they expand the gov’t as much as the libs, breach individual rights and spend like a drunken sailor on shore leave!! (Well all most, drunken sailors stop spending when they run out of money)

Please don’t misunderstand me, I am no fan of the Dems, they just come right out and tell everyone they plan to spend, spend & spend some more (and tax accordingly to support their habits) while shreading the Constitution in the process.

As long as our Constitution is held hostage by a two party system (where they are all in cahoots) nothing will change, we will all just sway from side to side!!
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:31   #7
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Every 12-Step Plan starts with a significant emotional event. Obviously America hasn't experienced anything significantly emotional yet. Probably going to be pretty ugly when it finally does happen.
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Old 12-03-2012, 22:33   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZonieDiver View Post
How does the media keep the R's from setting up a website and making a video?

I watch ALL the network Sunday shows and I have yet to hear an R call POTUS or any of his wimpy lapdogs (Carney, Geitner, etc) on their continuous statements that 'the Rs don't want to raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires'. I didn't know those making $250,000 to $999,000 had been 'promoted'!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John View Post
I agree!! By #4 I was I can't help but wonder why is the press so biased on the liberal viewpoint? This is the antithesis of journalism at least as I understood it. What are we doing wrong? What do we need to do to change the dynamic?

The Republican party "as is" just doesn't seem to have a ground truth handle on the problem, let alone a plan. I am a little confused right now, as many others here may also be, as to what the solution is and how to execute.

Really good post as usual, Richard {Salute}
I attempted to explain the answer in my "How do you raise taxes?" thread. An overwhelming majority of people coming out of our Ivy League Schools have been indoctrinated in Keynsian economics. Some know it, and some don't. But these are the people who then go out and manage, oversee, and communcate to the rest of the population through their Keynsian lenses.

Also there are two things in particular that make it hard for Republicans to outsell Democrats. One is because the REAL way to produce economic growth is COUNTERintuitive. If you understand little about the businessworld, it's intuitive to think RAISING taxes reduces the debt. Cutting taxes is counterintutive.

Second is that one party is doing the heavy lifting by offering to take candy away. The other is offering to give more candy.

Oh, one party is masterful at obfuscation and will make people think up is down and black is white and they are doing the heavy lifting, but in reality, it's not the case.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:49   #9
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Because as usual the press is on the side of the D's.

The Republicans could stand in front of the Capital and lay out exactly what they want to do. What would the national news report that evening? Evil Republicans want to starve the poor, kick granny out to the street and close the public schools.
Ding.
Here are those Evil Republicans from yesterday.

Work browser is allergic to NBC websites but looks like they covered the letter too.

There also were yesterday some opinion pieces (which I can't reach from the work desk) basically saying, "ok, GOP, back off, let 'em own it & when America begins to really feel the pain the Entitled Ones may feel differently."

As Peregrino indicates, that "moment of clarity" hasn't happened yet. Having seen that in some individuals (not a whole sub-section of a populace), it ain't pretty to watch - but is necessary.

ETA: The video duped #2 & 4, which is within their goal of continuing to reinforce class warfare.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:08   #10
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..........Work browser is allergic to NBC websites but looks like they covered the letter too.......
A few comments in the "fair & balanced" MSM news source......

".......Still, the GOP proposal on Monday appears to move no further toward compromise on Obama’s central demand that tax rates be allowed to increase on the wealthiest Americans. While Republicans have agreed in principle that richer Americans can shoulder a greater share of the tax burden, they insist this must be achieved through ending loopholes and deductions, rather than raising rates.........."


"........It’s unclear, though, whether the Republican plan would move toward ending the stalemate around the fiscal cliff negotiations, with less than a month remaining until the automatic tax hikes and spending cuts are scheduled to snap into place on Jan. 1............."


".......The new GOP plan reflects the posturing that has come to characterize these negotiations, separated just a month from an election which awarded Obama a second term and which kept Republicans in control of the House and Democrats in control of the Senate.........."

Hey MSM D-rats - do you see anything unclear in the Presidents plan. Any posturing? Not moving forward?
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:17   #11
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I attempted to explain the answer in my "How do you raise taxes?" thread.

Also there are two things in particular that make it hard for Republicans to outsell Democrats. One is because the REAL way to produce economic growth is COUNTERintuitive. If you understand little about the businessworld, it's intuitive to think RAISING taxes reduces the debt. Cutting taxes is counterintutive.
You know, I've enjoyed reading your posts, even when I don't agree with your premise...much like Sig...even though his posts require additional reading with his <link> <link> <link> and reminders of what you said last year <here> <here> and <here>....but seriously you think the businessworld thinks raising taxes reduces the debt?
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:54   #12
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You know, I've enjoyed reading your posts, even when I don't agree with your premise...much like Sig...even though his posts require additional reading with his <link> <link> <link> and reminders of what you said last year <here> <here> and <here>....but seriously you think the businessworld thinks raising taxes reduces the debt?
First, that was a fun (in a deservedly respectful way) set dressing for a 'Sigabapost'. Nice.


I could be wrong but the way I was reading XZR's comment there are some missing "qualifiers" in the way it's written. Not putting words in XZR's mouth, but I read it as:

Quote:
If you understand little about the businessworld (like most of the electorate and too many politicians), it's intuitive to think RAISING taxes reduces the debt (if you're a large part of the electorate or one of those ignorant politicians). Cutting taxes is counterintutive (to that group mentioned, who simply think more tax money should mean a paid down debt).
(I've seen people in an aircraft in a shuddering stall find it counter-intuitive to push the nose over even though that's what's needed.)
XZR fire away if I missed the point.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:25   #13
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You know, I've enjoyed reading your posts, even when I don't agree with your premise...much like Sig...even though his posts require additional reading with his <link> <link> <link> and reminders of what you said last year <here> <here> and <here>....but seriously you think the businessworld thinks raising taxes reduces the debt?
Very good question. Let me get back to you. Unfortunately, we use a lot of double negatives in this discipline.

The quick answer is that business people will tell you the more you tax and regulate them, the more that bites into their productivity.

As for taxing policy, my outlook is a little more complicated....if we raise the rax RATES, this will contract the economy. I am for other forms of "revenue" like closing loopholes and cappng deductions, even though those have a little bit of a contractionary impact as well. I've come to the conclusion that even though a flat tax is regressive - which is why I resisted it up to about 2 years ago - I now believe this thing about so many people not having skin in the game is a contributor to our current disastrous situation. The election put the last nail in the coffin for me on that one. I'll get back though.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:40   #14
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I attempted to explain the answer in my "How do you raise taxes?" thread. An overwhelming majority of people coming out of our Ivy League Schools have been indoctrinated in Keynsian economics. Some know it, and some don't. But these are the people who then go out and manage, oversee, and communcate to the rest of the population through their Keynsian lenses.

Also there are two things in particular that make it hard for Republicans to outsell Democrats. One is because the REAL way to produce economic growth is COUNTERintuitive. If you understand little about the businessworld, it's intuitive to think RAISING taxes reduces the debt. Cutting taxes is counterintutive.

Second is that one party is doing the heavy lifting by offering to take candy away. The other is offering to give more candy.

Oh, one party is masterful at obfuscation and will make people think up is down and black is white and they are doing the heavy lifting, but in reality, it's not the case.
Yes, I know. Economics is difficult and the American people are dense.

I don't hold either of those beliefs (as to basic economic principles, at least).

My point is that there are many very simple answers to the policies proposed by the Ds and I have yet to hear one R make those simple points in the MSM, which many of them have been all over of late.

How 'counter-intuitive' is it for people to understand that a families making $300,000 a year are not 'millionaires and billionaires'?
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:38   #15
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How 'counter-intuitive' is it for people to understand that a families making $300,000 a year are not 'millionaires and billionaires'?
It's not so much that folks don't understand that 300,000 <> 1,000,000, but rather that many folks believe "The Rich" is anyone that makes more than they do. They don't stop to consider that, comparatively, they are "The Rich" in the eyes of those making less than them.

Won't they be in for a treat when "The Rich" find ways to move their money and assets elsewhere, and Uncle Sugar shifts his tax siphon to them, the "new" rich?
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