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Old 09-22-2008, 04:50   #46
BlackDragon0311
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only one...?

i'm really starting to get into the whole body thing that cross fit gives you, but it feels a bit lacking sometimes. today's WOD, the snatch for 30 res, I mean it seems good in conjunction with more, but just one workout seems detrimental to the progress i've made with weights and interval cardio...should I combine the WOD with some more exercises, or just go along with the site and go along with the one workout along with what I get from crossfit endurance?

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Old 09-22-2008, 08:02   #47
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Blackdragon0311,

I think if the WOD is a bit lacking you should add to it. Especially since you already have a endurance and strength base to work off of. I am not sure what methods you have been using, but the full body lifts Crossfit employs are a must for athletes. I dont buy into the non-isolation mentality Crossfit seems to have, so I would add those in as supplementary lifts at the end. This is what we do with our athletes and its worked very well.

With this being said, I would also consider how hard you want to work for that day. Most programs I draw contain download weeks where the intensity is lower. If you are in a time frame where recovery is more your focus, than a lower intensity may be what you need.

Questions for the Crossfitters: How does the Crossfit program account for recovery of its athletes? I have read the foundations brochure, but didnt find much detail on it. As mentioned above I usually implement a download week for my athletes. For example, we increase intensity for weeks 1-3 and on week 4 reduce it to promote more recovery and get a training effect.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:18   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew.tentis View Post
...How does the Crossfit program account for recovery of its athletes?
I dont know how CF does it, never really cared to find out. I know my body and listen to what its telling me. Since I do both CF and isolation I generally will lift for 2 months and take a week off unless my body tells me something different...

Works for me, however YRMV.

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Old 09-22-2008, 08:34   #49
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ok...

well what I THINK i'm gonna try and do, is keep most of my normal routine down as is, gonna keep going with the interval-cardio training every other day, continue to focus on isolation, but add in a good cross fit towards the end, or do something like the WOD, and add in atleast one isolation lifting exercise per muscle group at the end, that sound like a good way to take it?

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Old 09-22-2008, 09:16   #50
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Blackdragon0311,

From my perspective you have the right idea, except where the order comes in to play. Full body/compound movements (ie. clean, snatch, bench, squat, deadlift, etc) should "always" be performed at the beginning of the session. I put always in quotations because no one is going to arrest you for doing otherwise. However, these exercises give you the most bang for your buck, meaning you want to be at your full potential for them. If you place them at the end when your energy stores are depleted, they are not as effective. Does this make sense?
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:04   #51
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hmmm...

I get what you say. Just got back from the gym, what I did was three sets of one exercise per muscle group (today it was arms and shoulders), then a full 15 minutes of cross fit (3 pull ups, 6 push ups, 12 squats) exercises. Thinking what i'll do is one day i'll do atleast one exercise per muscle group and then a quick cross fit exercise, the next day do my interval cardio, wait a few hours, then go with another cross fit. Am I reading you right in that I should do it the opposite way, start with my cross fit and then go for isolation? Or am I just whistling dixie outa my ass? lol!

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Old 09-22-2008, 10:25   #52
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Compound movements are those requiring more than one muscle group (ie: squat, deadlift, cleans, snatch, bench, bent-over rows, military press.) They are also the ones where acceleration thru the movement is most important. These should be done first in a routine since they will tax your system the most. Exercises such as leg extensions, leg curls, bidep curls, tricep extensions, shrugs, rack pulls, calf raises, deltoid raises, etc are focusing on / isolating one muscle group at a time and are generally performed after the large groups are fatigued or scheduled for another day as is the case for arm work.

There are exceptions to this but thats a another discussion altogether.

HTH,

Crip
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:43   #53
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.

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Old 09-22-2008, 11:08   #54
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You are understanding me correctly Blackdragon and Crip's post explains the concept exactly. Also, as he mentioned there are always exceptions, but this is a basic concept that is beneficial to understand.

I think msgec has the right idea as well. If increasing max strength is your goal, then a near max sets should be done first. It goes back to being at your highest potential (ie. not fatigued). Sounds like hell of a routine msgec! It is amazing how much genetics come into play as well though. Many top end athletes fell out of bed more athletic than the majority and really dont have to work as hard as the rest to make it to the top. Its just not fair, is it?
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Old 09-22-2008, 17:00   #55
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Same-O, same-O

While I love the fact you guys are trying to be the best you can physically. You need to know that EVERY system of exercise out there is the same. They try different ways of doing the same thing. The results are the same as the others within certain degrees. It's like grading horse shit it's all the same. The blitz system is totally different.
I am suggesting that you all do the Blitz system workout. You will be stronger than you can believe and with unheard of muscle endurance You can down load a copy from this site . Just ask Dan how. He set it up so you guys could use it. It is a completely out-0f-the -box system of exercise that will double your endurance and give you a minimum of 20% strength over your life time best. As unlikely as it sounds it has worked with these results of over 15 years. No pain, no tendonitis or strains. no ligament tears or cartilege breakdown.. you exercise at a very fast speed and will totally fatigue but no pain. It also stays with you longer than other systems which is why I am trying to get it into 5th group as a full fitness system. Individualized power. Dave (Blitz)
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Last edited by Blitzzz (RIP); 09-22-2008 at 17:07.
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Old 09-22-2008, 19:22   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew.tentis View Post
Blackdragon0311,



Questions for the Crossfitters: How does the Crossfit program account for recovery of its athletes? I have read the foundations brochure, but didnt find much detail on it. As mentioned above I usually implement a download week for my athletes. For example, we increase intensity for weeks 1-3 and on week 4 reduce it to promote more recovery and get a training effect.
Matt,

The Crossfit program accounts for recovery in two ways. The first is the rest day after 3 work days, and the second is by varying the workout to tax different muscle groups and energy systems in the body. Ex. You will not be running long distances on consecutive days using only endurance or aerobic metabolism.
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Old 09-23-2008, 13:09   #57
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Blitzz,

I downloaded the program, read through it, and I think its a great program for improving strength and work capacity. I have used this same method in my own training and, to a similar degree, with some of my athletes. However, I have to say I disagree with a couple of your statements.

Every system of exercise out there is definately NOT the same. The Blitz System is designed to increase work capacity by focusing on a density (amt. of work/unit of time) progression. You can focus program in a number of different ways and still achieve similar result. Like I mentioned before though, Blitz works great and kicks your ass, BUT if you want to concentrate on max strength, its not the best option. So, I would use a different system to accomplish different goals is what I am saying.

I dont believe there is no pain involved with this program either. Pain is subjective. No injuries, I do believe with a grain of salt. When you only work at 33% of your 1RM the likelyhood of injury is VERY low and lower if you performing basic excercises.

Overall, I believe the Blitz method would be a great tool in anyone's program. Especially if increasing work capacity is the desired result. But, I would simply consider it another tool in my tool box. If you can get it going with the 5th group or anyone I'd be willing to be you'd have a lot of success with it.

Moeasy,

Thanks for the reply. That answers my question.
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Old 09-25-2008, 12:05   #58
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A hard call based on assumption.

I apreciate your background in exercise, but yourhave never used a system like this one there are some simular to it but none that produce like this one. You would have to see it to believe it. I will tell you that you can use any other system for as long as it takes to get as strong as you can, and when you are through, I can run you throough 6 weeks of blitz and you WILL be over 20% stronger and with doubled the endurance. This is something I have witnessed for over 16 years of it. It does not matter what other system you use. This system will add the results I claim. It is that scary. There is no pain. There are no injuries. The results have been consistant for everyone who has ever used it. This inncludes Post-surgical rehab of shoulders and Knees.

I respect you comments but you speak from a position of never having Blitzed. I would challenge anyone in any condition to try it and I will guarantee the results I have claimed. Respectfully, Dave
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Old 09-25-2008, 17:10   #59
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Dave,

You are correct, I have never Blitzed, BUT I have a good understanding of the method used and the adaptation that comes along with the program. This is why I agree it is a very effective program. I suppose you can say my opinions are based on assumptions, to a degree, but they are certainly not hollow. I have actually planned to work the Blitzed method into my personal program later on in my plan. I'll be sure to keep you informed on how it goes.


I think its VERY important to know the why behind methods used. Blitzed is based off of Escalating Density Training (EDT) and if readers are interested, I suggest looking it up. The human body is an amazing thing! It adapts to any stress we put on it and then it plateus until we change that stress. This is why I would work Blitz into my overall training plan and not depend only on Blitz. The body needs the change to continue to be challenged.

V/R

Matt
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:06   #60
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Crossfit endurance

Thought this was interesting from the CFE site in the FAQs section.

Quote:
I am in the military and I need to ruck/run in boots/carry logs long distances – should I do this in addition to the running?

No – the same principles apply. Go short, and go hard. Learn technique, then do it fast, then you can do it long. Rucking marching long distances has more to do with muscular endurance than with cardiovascular fitness. Muscular endurance can be trained more efficiently by Crossfit than by walking for miles.

Look for an additional military oriented workout per week.
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