SMA wants 4-mile run, 12-mile march for PT test

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

Whenever I see leadership (or anyone else) fixated on ONE aspect of the "whole man", I start to wonder if that's their pet peeve because it's the only competence they have.

Sometimes I just log on to see what Peregrino has to say.

Originally Posted by The Reaper

If this is the new standard, how can you lawfully put out a male who does four miles in 30:00, but keep the female who does it in 36:00? TR

well it would be okay if it was based on in-seem. I know my 30 inch takes a beating compared to Richards 42.

Originally Posted by mojaveman

I remember the 50 meter swim test, ...

that's not physical fitness, that's drown-proofing. Endurance (and skill) won't show til you swim about 500 meters. IMHO

[Isshin2]

I like the idea of a 4 mile run and a 12 mile ruck. Unfortunately, we would lose more than half of our unit. Most of them are good guys, it’s just World of Warcraft or something similar takes precedence over PT.

I also think there should be a leadership competency evaluation thrown in the mix as well. Maybe with some MOUT or Lanes Training Exercise.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Isshin2

I also think there should be a leadership competency evaluation thrown in the mix as well. Maybe with some MOUT or Lanes Training Exercise.

Just an observation, if your post-count is correct. You may want to re-read your introductory emails and post an intro in the appropriate thread.

[bluenote]

Holy Crap. I am all for adding a ruckmarch, but wouldn't this be a nightmare for large units? How many water points and how many medics would a unit have to get set up for a 12 mile route at say, Ft. Benning or Ft. Jackson in the summertime? And the size of just a platoon at some of those BCT and AIT sites can be as many as 140+ knuckleheads. It would be an all day or multi-day event. And besides, if they blocked off the roads I would never make it to Popeyes at the PX for lunch in time.

[Streck-Fu]

Would the Reserves and Guard be forced to adopt these standards as well? If so, that could open a can of worms when it comes to health and injury claims.
Knowing that part timers have to maintain the fitness standards, adding a longer run and ruck to the requirement increases the likelihood of injury. Currently, when not on drill or duty, the part timers are not covered for injuries. What happens when SSGT Smith pops a knee doing a ruck on his own time to train for the required test?

[VAKEMP]

The longer run would be a better test of endurance and a “gut check,” Chandler said.

...

Chandler said the Army is about 33 percent fatter than it was 10 years ago. He said some soldiers look like “stuffed sausages” and it’s not because uniform sizes have shrunk. The problem, he said, is that the Army’s body-fat allowance is the most lenient among the services. In fact, the Army allows a level of body fat the American Health Association labels as “obese.”

...

“We are not going to accept obesity as a standard in our Army anymore,” Chandler said.

So, is it a "gut check" or a "gut" check?

If the goal is to weed out the "stuffed sausages", can't you just raise the body-fat allowance standards so those bordering on morbidly obese are administratively separated for failing to meet the standards?

[VAKEMP]

Gut checks are good, but making them mandatory annual "gut checks" for every soldier?

It reminds me of the leadership of the Mongolian Armed Forces when I was embedded with them. The senior officers had the junior officers and enlisted troops do a 30km ruck with 30kg (66#) packs. The straps for these packs were ropes, not the big comfy padded straps we are used to on ALICE packs and MOLLE gear. It was effective at improving morale; everyone felt great for completing the ruck, especially since the 30kg in those crappy packs sucked but everyone suffered together.

Then again, this was one of their infantry units that also completes 10km boots and utes runs every other day up and over the mountains surrounding the training area, and they run everywhere with full combat loads. I doubt their admin counterparts would be able to perform the same "gut checks", and honestly their jobs do not require the same "gut checks".

[John_Chrichton]

Originally Posted by VAKEMP

Gut checks are good, but making them mandatory annual "gut checks" for every soldier?

It reminds me of the leadership of the Mongolian Armed Forces when I was embedded with them. The senior officers had the junior officers and enlisted troops do a 30km ruck with 30kg (66#) packs. The straps for these packs were ropes, not the big comfy padded straps we are used to on ALICE packs and MOLLE gear. It was effective at improving morale; everyone felt great for completing the ruck, especially since the 30kg in those crappy packs sucked but everyone suffered together.

Then again, this was one of their infantry units that also completes 10km boots and utes runs every other day up and over the mountains surrounding the training area, and they run everywhere with full combat loads. I doubt their admin counterparts would be able to perform the same "gut checks", and honestly their jobs do not require the same "gut checks".

I hardly think a 12 mile ruck march and a 4 mile run are "gut checks" compared to what you're describing. Regardless of MOS, are we not Soldiers first? We are and that is why we should be held to the same, tough, basic standard.

[Box]

The more I think about it, the more I realize that venting is futile...
...this is just more of the same.

Good soldiers are going to get railroaded out of the Army because of defense cuts.
This is just another way of helping the process along.

At least with a 35 pound ruck I only have about half the weight to carry...

Don't forget to wear your dog tags.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

Good soldiers are going to get railroaded out of the Army because of defense cuts.
This is just another way of helping the process along.

I think you're in the X-ring sir. Not disputing the benefits of having a fit Army, discriminators of one kind or another have always been used post-conflict era to drawdown and there will be some hemorrhage of experience. At some point we will again "go to war with the Army you have, not what you'd want." Plus ca change...

I've heard experience is what you get right after you needed it.

[Dozer523]

Carl Prine's take at Line of Departure.com "Now that it slumps back into garrison mentality after more than a decade of war, an increasingly chubby Big Army is mulling reforms to its physical fitness training. “Big Army” might be apt because it’s more than 30 percent flabbier than it was before 9/11. So the new Sergeant Major of the Army, Raymond Chandler – no, that’s really his name – wants the service to go on a diet and get in shape. To make those points, however, he did what all career senior NCOs are prone to do if they’re not closely watched: He opened his vast lifer maw and stupid fell out. Read the hilarious rest here >>> http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2012/...#ixzz1mgYARt00

Be sure to read all the way to these suggestions 7. Others suggest that we “train the way we fight” and the APFT should reflect that. Fair enough. If you’re a mortar man your PT shall consist of sleeping in the shade of the gun all morning, scratching yourself inappropriately for an hour, and then bitching for the rest of the afternoon about napping too long and how itchy you get in the field. You’ll be tested not only on how well you play cards for hours on end but also the dexterity involved in smuggling iPhones, drink coolers, creepy German midget porn, hammocks, Doritos and other essential gear into the field. Laughing at 11Bs running around while you await a fire mission you know is never going to come is mandatory. Supply bubbas can max 300 by finding the best gear in the world and then lounging around the warehouse looking like a freakin’ SEAL. Bonus points for telling the grunt at the window that you don’t have anything for him so, yeah, he has to suck it up. Additional points if he can see the gear he wants on the pallet behind you. The angrier he gets the better your score. The possibilities are endless!

[JTC]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

Physical fitness is just ONE indicator of quality. Whenever I see leadership (or anyone else) fixated on ONE aspect of the "whole man", I start to wonder if that's their pet peeve because it's the only competence they have.

Well said. Not to downplay the importance of Physical fitness, but usually the guy that puts PT ahead of all other aspects, is a PT stud, but lacking in other significant areas. PT is important, but so is maturity, technical & tactical proficiency, "Be, Know, Do".

[Mills]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

If this is implemented as suggested,, Mother has a new way of reducing headcount that can not be considered PC weighted or prejudicial..



May work...

I agree. The little amount of time that I spend doing PT on FTCKY proper.........is minimal, however whenever I do..........I see way too many soldiers in a sad state of physical fitness. Either walking, or just giving up and stopping.

But at least they all have PT belts on so that they won't get hit by a car on a street that is closed and has road guards........haha.

[ShamrockSix]

He added that the shuttle run is far more difficult for older soldiers who are not as agile as they once were.

It's interesting that the 49-year-old Sergeant Major seems to be sympathetic to the interests of the older Soldier as he makes his case for tougher PT.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by ShamrockSix

It's interesting that the 49-year-old Sergeant Major seems to be sympathetic to the interests of the older Soldier as he makes his case for tougher PT.

I don't know about that,but seriously I personally know a QP whose in his mid-50's,who not only is in excellent(not just in good shape)but also smart enough to have been an "O" on active duty and because he loves what he's doing requested to become an NCO leader to be with his men when they go beyond the wire......... Now that's the kind of soldier (leader)we need,too bad there aren't that many left........ Don't ask me who he is,my lips are sealed......

Big Teddy