Steroids

[99meters]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

Again I think you are confusing the cause and effects. The effect being "his running went to crap" but the cause wasnt that he was taking a cycle. It was that his focus in training shifted away from cardio (running) so he could put on size. It is the inverse of someone wanting to get smaller so they spend more time on cardio and less time lifting heavy and in the end will give up some strength in the process...

The above is very true. Most people that go on a cycle decide to judge the effectiveness of a steroid by hitting the weightroom. Often times they get stuck in that mode because the results are positive and are easly measureable.
However, there is research that suggest steroids can affect the functioning of muscle fibre type (cause slow twitch fibres to behave like fast twitch fibres). This would affect endurance. Also, it is relatively easy for faster twitching fibres to become like slow twitch fibres with prolonged low intensity training. Steroids are believed to delay this process. This again can affect endurance.
The bottom line is this....steroids allows an individual to overtrain and still recover. Its no magic pill, it allows you to work harder than the next man who is trying to do it natural. The problem with anabolic steroids (for cardi athletes) is it is very hard to gain an increase in strength and power without gains in lean muscle mass (weight). This becomes a problem when you have to lift you center of mass on each stride for a 5k or 10k run. Most athletes in this group use other performance enhancement drugs PEDS like epo (AIDS medication).
That being said, I know/knew a few sprinters sub 10.12 100m that were on steroids and could still run sub 4:50 miles and do 3 miles in under 17 mins. As Surgicalcric said, it depends on what you focus on.

[kgoerz]

They should test for it.
I don't want anyone on my Team who needs or feels the need to take performing enhancing drugs in order to excel. You want someone excelling in Combat training who is taking Steroids?? What happens when he is deployed and doesn't have them??
If he can't do it with his natural Heart, Motivation and commitment. Then he should be sent packing.

[BrianH]

Originally Posted by kgoerz

They should test for it.
I don't want anyone on my Team who needs or feels the need to take performing enhancing drugs in order to excel. You want someone excelling in Combat training who is taking Steroids?? What happens when he is deployed and doesn't have them??
If he can't do it with his natural Heart, Motivation and commitment. Then he should be sent packing.

The same thing could be said for night vision, FLIR, JDAM, ACOG, EoTech, GPS, or any other technological performance enhancing product.

Why would you throw a guy off the team who has decided to further enhance his natural abilities to perform his job? Like Cric stated earlier, the short and long term effects of AAS are grossly overstated for political and athletic reasons, mostly involving cheating. It is banned simply because it DOES make people stronger and faster. War isn't an activity that falls under those guidelines. If a guy on my team feels the desire to (responsibly) take a substance that would allow him to more easily carry wounded teammates off the battlefield, I am not going to stop him.

Too many people drank the BALCO Kool-Aid.

[Koa18B]

Originally Posted by BrianH

The same thing could be said for night vision, FLIR, JDAM, ACOG, EoTech, GPS, or any other technological performance enhancing product.

Why would you throw a guy off the team who has decided to further enhance his natural abilities to perform his job? Like Cric stated earlier, the short and long term effects of AAS are grossly overstated for political and athletic reasons, mostly involving cheating. It is banned simply because it DOES make people stronger and faster. War isn't an activity that falls under those guidelines. If a guy on my team feels the desire to (responsibly) take a substance that would allow him to more easily carry wounded teammates off the battlefield, I am not going to stop him.

Too many people drank the BALCO Kool-Aid.

I agree in some aspects with what you said. Having recently went through the Q. I am not on a team yet so I still have yet to deal with certain aspects of being an 18B however, FLIR, GPS, and EoTech's have not killed someone due to irresponsible usage (well other then the enemy).

I have heard and seen team mates of mine experiment with everything from AAS to plain OTC Creatine and other "Supplement's." IMO it makes little to no difference as guys that twice my size and are big "PT Studs" when it comes to that run or forced marches they have always been lacking in the stamina area.

[Triman19]

Just a quick comment on this topic. In the triathlon community steriod use is pretty big. I have completed twenty one races (not that a certain number matters, many people have done hundereds more) but one trait that I have repeatedly seen with different bodie shapes, sizes ect is that during the race many of these people honestly die out. Of course I do not know every person who uses, but I do train with guys weekly who do. They claim stronger sprint abilities, faster recovery and better metabolism to name a few benefits. However, their true endurance seems to be taking a hit. Maybe I am wrong or misguided, but I was under the impression that EPO actually gives the "endurance athlete" that extra push? I will do some research and see what I can find out.
I respect and see both sides of the issue. I guess I would rather be tall and skinny and work with the talents God gave me than try to change my body to a thick lifters build. That is why I have chosen to not use, although it is very tempting to use when you get beat by peolpe who do not train as hard as I do.
I think a common misconception by those who do not know is that an "SF guy" does not necessarily look a certain way, i.e. John Rambo. I have personnally been put down by an SF guy who had to have been about fifty five years of age and weighed much more than me. Funny thing, he just worked his butt off his entire career and it got him the same place as some people who choose to use.
To each his own I suppose. Have a great weekend and be safe.

God Bless

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by koz

First - many times a guy is on steroids, he may be great at short bursts (2 mi or even a 12miler). But usually the long term endurance is pretty bad. When I went to selection, there were some guys who showed up (I believe they were juicing) that were complete studs. It should have been a breeze for them. A week and a half later, they VW'd and left a nice pile of moleskin, motrin, and foot powder. They didn't have the juice to keep going.

In some DA centered units there are guys who "openly" used steroids. I don't know if they were tested or how they pissed clean if they were tested. A long range patrol is not great for a guy like this. Their body will suffer after day 3/4, by day 10 he's dead weight. A guy on my team was like this - He'd sling weights around like feathers, but he was pretty much worthless after a few days in the field.

Another thing about using steroids for injury recovery. From my very limited medical knowledge, steroids help with reduction of inflammation and swelling. This makes things feel better but doesn't help it in the long run. An "Operator" doesn't have an off-season to recover from seasonal injuries.

I think you'll find steroids everywhere you go. But IMO, it's not any more used in SF than any other military unit.

Easy the Army rarely ever tests for them it is an expensive tests that the Army must send off to the Olympic testing facility at about 150$ a pop. I am 220 lb and have never seen so many 22 yr olds that dwarf me in the SF and regular army gyms and very young guys lifting absurd weights consistently. These guys usually use juice overseas and what you see quite common is a guy who damages his connective tissue which gains strength at roughly 1/3 the rate of muscle by lifting to his juiced up muscle potential and tearing the skeletal muscle like Ligaments and tendons

[fng13]

Originally Posted by WarriorDiplomat

Easy the Army rarely ever tests for them it is an expensive tests that the Army must send off to the Olympic testing facility at about 150$ a pop. I am 220 lb and have never seen so many 22 yr olds that dwarf me in the SF and regular army gyms and very young guys lifting absurd weights consistently. These guys usually use juice overseas and what you see quite common is a guy who damages his connective tissue which gains strength at roughly 1/3 the rate of muscle by lifting to his juiced up muscle potential and tearing the skeletal muscle like Ligaments and tendons

That is a problem with training routine not with the use of steroids. I could do the same thing without ever taking "Juice."

[Debo]

Originally Posted by kgoerz

They should test for it.
I don't want anyone on my Team who needs or feels the need to take performing enhancing drugs in order to excel. You want someone excelling in Combat training who is taking Steroids?? What happens when he is deployed and doesn't have them??
If he can't do it with his natural Heart, Motivation and commitment. Then he should be sent packing.

+1. They are a crutch. Get out, do some hardwork and quit looking for shortcuts.

D.

[doctom54]

Originally Posted by koz

Another thing about using steroids for injury recovery. From my very limited medical knowledge, steroids help with reduction of inflammation and swelling. This makes things feel better but doesn't help it in the long run. An "Operator" doesn't have an off-season to recover from seasonal injuries.

I think you'll find steroids everywhere you go. But IMO, it's not any more used in SF than any other military unit.

There are two general groups of steroids
Catabolic steroids which reduce inflammation and shut down reactions. Cortisone is an example. They are used a lot in the practice of medicine and are very good for allergic reactions or some things such as Rheumatoid arthritis (a simplification but fairly accurate)
Anabolic steroids build up muscle and speed recovery. Testosterone is one another is decadurabinol. These are used a lot less in medicine.
There are lots of side effects with prolonged use of either.
Both are very effective when used correctly.

[James Clifton]

Guys,
I'm not military,have a lot of friends that are & I'm an old Army brat! I'm 66 & been in the "Iron Game "for quite awhile.I've had a number of friends get screwed up with ROIDS...a few have died.
Here is my take on Roids....they make you bigger,faster,more aggressive & build up thr EGO! Negs ARE...liver,bone,blood & heart problems & they can kill you.
So... I present some questions ....YOU juice & DON'T make it to be a RANGER....what good was taking it?? What if..... you take it & it really screws you up later? Think about it... I know if it was me & I was trying to make it,been strutting my stuff around the average guys & THEN having them blow by me on the march while I was on the ground puking & quitting...it would affect me for the rest of my life!!
Jim

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

Yes they make folks bigger, and stronger. As stated most of us made long hard careers without it. Additionally our joints are stressed enough with out the weakening affect of some steroids, and the Medics should be aware of the possibly of some organ problems.

And any time a team has to endure "ROID RAGE" it had better be worth it. give the SOB all the commo gear.