I “Hate” NY! (The Democratic Approach to Amazon)

[rubberneck]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Come again? You need to e’splain that with the same level of economic understanding that AOC uses from her degree in economics?

I don't know if I can live up to that standard but under the agreement essentially a cash strapped NY was paying $48,000 per promised job. I'm not a giant fan of corporate welfare especially for a company that that had a gross profit of $98 billion in 2018. I don't mind companies making money at all but it's unseemly when a company that large demands a $3 billion handout.

[cbtengr]

States and cities have been whoring themselves out for years in order to get businesses to locate in their areas. If a business can get a break why wouldn't they? In the end do businesses pay taxes or is that built into the cost of their product? I hate the practice of tax incentives also. What struck me as humorous was Cuomos choice of labels for these miscreants who ran Amazon off, he called them the "Far Left." Guess he has not looked in a mirror for quite sometime now. The left brings on their own misery then expects the rest of the country to pony up to relieve their pain. F*** em all.

[rubberneck]

Originally Posted by cbtengr

States and cities have been whoring themselves out for years in order to get businesses to locate in their areas. If a business can get a break why wouldn't they? In the end do businesses pay taxes or is that built into the cost of their product? I hate the practice of tax incentives also. What struck me as humorous was Cuomos choice of labels for these miscreants who ran Amazon off, he called them the "Far Left." Guess he has not looked in a mirror for quite sometime now. The left brings on their own misery then expects the rest of the country to pony up to relieve their pain. F*** em all.

I'm not saying that business should avoid getting "breaks', what I'm saying is that in the end the only party that really benefits is the business. Not that they're capable of doing it but NY could significantly grow it's tax base by returning to fiscal sanity instead of trying to bribe companies.

https://itep.org/tax-incentives-cost...on-the-nation/

[cbtengr]

Originally Posted by rubberneck

I'm not saying that business should avoid getting "breaks', what I'm saying is that in the end the only party that really benefits is the business. Not that they're capable of doing it but NY could significantly grow it's tax base by returning to fiscal sanity instead of trying to bribe companies.

https://itep.org/tax-incentives-cost...on-the-nation/

If it was just tax breaks it would be one thing, you can't lose tax dollars you never had. But New Yorkers were going to be on the hook for Grants of up to 500 Million, that's real tax payers money there and I truly have a problem with that.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com...on/1986979002/

Up to $1.2 billion will be in the form of state tax breaks under the state's Excelsior Jobs Program, which are awarded to the company on a rolling basis only after jobs are created over 10 years. It works out to $48,000 per job. The remaining $325 million to $505 million will be in the form of cash grants dispersed over 10 to 15 years, depending whether Amazon goes beyond its job goals.

Those grants, which are meant to cover some of Amazon's capital costs, will be distributed to the company when it hits certain job and investment benchmarks each year.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Come again? You need to e’splain that with the same level of economic understanding that AOC uses from her degree in economics?

Good point AOC may or may not understand the simple yet complex Adam Smith "invisible hand" free market concept but I am thinking she was trained in the ways of Keynesian system which seems to the prevailing model used in Canada and other socialist type systems....either way all she seemed to learns was America is rich, white is bad, LGBTQ and socialism is good, a fetus is not human, and global warming is the greatest threat to the world......Unicorns are real and Rainbows lead to gold....she didn't realize that the world by her revelation will end in less time it took to rebuild the world trade center but somehow she will find the money and by some miracle of engineering and a slowing of the space time continuum that they will be able to rebuild every building in America while supporting those unwilling to work and building railroad tracks across the oceans I can't wait to see them build support structures in the Marianas trench that also flexes with the movement of the tectonic plate and tracks tall enough to go over a rogue wave....And people wonder why a college degree should carry no weight anymore she has single handedly delegitimize higher education..... DEFUND colleges....FUND trade schools...DEFUND for profit Climate research groups

[Old Dog New Trick]

Okay I don’t know all the numbers and what the “deal” was that NY negotiated with Amazon settling on NY over all the other vying cities. It was supposed to be a global headquarters with upper and above middle management types with salaries in the $150K/year range but I honestly don’t think that is 25,000 mangers managing what?

Some things we know:
$3B tax incentive over 10 years based on achieving certain parameters and goals.
$2.5B investment in local infrastructure - was that NY paying or Amazon paying it’s not clear. I’m pretty certain Amazon was building the new Headquarters campus and if anything like Seattle...very large and very expensive. Someone has to pour the concrete and pound the nails; neither Cuomo, De Blasio or Bezos is doing that. So that is construction jobs.

Let’s assume out of those 25,000 ‘new’ jobs 5,000 are at an average of $150,000/year that’s $750,000,000/year. Let’s say cheapskate Bezos pays the 20,000 people minimum wage ($15/hr) that’s still $600,000,000/year. If it’s true that the deal says NY is paying 48,000 per position that’s $1.2B from $1.35B or $150,000,000 (+/-) net gain per year. That gets spent on food, rent, mortgages, living expenses...etc... But actually who cares who’s responsible for it there is still a $1.35-billion influx into NY city because of Amazon.

We are not even discussing new retail, restaurants, and small businesses, mass transportation...etc, that will pop up because of Amazon Corporate Headquarters in the neighborhood.

$12+billion over the first ten years and that doesn’t even pay the utilities.

I don’t know I didn’t take economics in school beyond the basics and failed higher math in high school but, that’s still like 7+ billion dollars net income profit over the next ten years to Queens which could really use it if you’ve been there lately. After that the numbers look even better for New York and New York City.

You should see the deals Boeing negotiated just to keep manufacturing in Washington. They don’t pay property tax for one thing...

I could be way out in right field but if the richest man in the world shits in my backyard it’s probably worth something to clean up.

[Ret10Echo]

Thanks NY...

Apparently it was so "bad"...

With the news that Amazon is scrapping its plans to build a headquarters in New York, Maryland seems poised to try again to lure the online retail giant to the state.

Shortly after the Thursday announcement, Gov. Larry Hogan said that his administration has had discussions with and is planning to meet with Amazon on the topic of moving into Maryland.

“We have been in contact with Amazon and anticipate a meeting,” said Shareese Churchill, a spokeswoman for the govern

But hey.... Socialists are known to be economic geniuses.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by rubberneck

I'm not saying that business should avoid getting "breaks', what I'm saying is that in the end the only party that really benefits is the business. Not that they're capable of doing it but NY could significantly grow it's tax base by returning to fiscal sanity instead of trying to bribe companies.

https://itep.org/tax-incentives-cost...on-the-nation/

The proper corporate tax is zero. AOC is acting like NY was paying Amazon but they were only saying that they didn't have to pay that amount of tax. Tax revenue that NY wasn't getting and tax revenue that they won't get now. Corporations DO NOT PAY TAX. The customer pays it in higher prices or the employees pay it in lower wages.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by PSM

The proper corporate tax is zero. AOC is acting like NY was paying Amazon but they were only saying that they didn't have to pay that amount of tax. Tax revenue that NY wasn't getting and tax revenue that they won't get now. Corporations DO NOT PAY TAX. The customer pays it in higher prices or the employees pay it in lower wages.

That is a fact and IMO I am Ok with this......the taxes are gained from the money placed back into the community.....the products made as they are sold...In my hometown was at the time the larger meat packing plants in the world with roughly 3000+ employees I worked there as well...the city and the county decided they needed to tax them at a higher rate the company had built a 30 million dollar facility and as soon as the bureaucrats voted the company Excel inc a subsidiary of Cargill Corp. then anyway...made it clear they would shut down the plant and move operations elsewhere if they were going to do that...suddenly they wised up and decided they would not tax them as planned and were suddenly happy to accept the millions of dollars pushed into the local economy the taxes they already collected on the truckers that serviced the industry...the fuel sales, retail, food etc.......you name it the town would have been ruined financially...since then the entire southwest ks has made it profitable for the slaughterhouse industry with National beef coming there several years later and opening a 2500 person plant then the National had opened another plant in Liberal Ks and Garden City IBP opened larger plant n Garden City and in Guymon OK a Hog processing plant.....it was the smartest thing they did backing off....I don't it was too hard to figure out the meat packers threatening to leave that Walmart would have left and many other peripheral companies would have left with them as well and I suspect there were some corporate reps explaining the financial disaster to follow to the chamber of commerce......everyone is better off the ranchers the farmers etc....

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by WarriorDiplomat

That is a fact and IMO I am Ok with this......

+1 As it should be imho.

And JimP I think your idea of having Atlas Shrugged on the training schedule is superb.

Here's one more reason (of many stories being spun) for the number of nails in the coffin of that deal. Extract:

Amazon officials reportedly defended the company’s facial recognition programs during a meeting with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio and Gov. Andrew Cuomo, Thursday, just hours before Amazon reversed its controversial deal to base its new “HQ2” headquarters in New York City.

“Three hours before Amazon announced they were dumping New York, the company held a meeting with top government officials that went poorly,” reported POLITICO. “During a closed-door meeting with representatives from Mayor de Blasio and Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s offices in Long Island City, company officials defended their labor policies and facial recognition technology in response to months of public backlash, according to people who were there.”

“And by 11 a.m., a top Amazon official working under Amazon founder Jeff Bezos called de Blasio to tell him the company was about to announce its intention to kill the deal altogether. The decision, which Amazon executives made Wednesday night, stunned those close to the project,” POLITICO claimed. “Even the two company officials dispatched to defend the deal appeared to have no idea it was over.”

On Twitter, journalist Michael Tracey declared, “Final straw for Amazon and Bezos was ‘public backlash’ to their ‘facial recognition technology,’ how dare New Yorkers object to becoming the most invasively surveilled people in human history.”

Meanwhile, the mean old USA continues to position humanitarian aid at the border of Calizuela, or was it Venefornia - I dunno, at some point all of AOC's Unicorn farms start looking alike.

[Old Dog New Trick]

If interested in how the state budget director feels about this...

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/ope...garding-amazon

"In my 23 years in the State Capitol, three as Budget Director, Amazon was the single greatest economic development opportunity we have had. Amazon chose New York and Virginia after a year-long national competition with 234 cities and states vying for the 25,000-40,000 jobs. For a sense of scale, the next largest economic development project the state has completed was for approximately 1,000 jobs. People have been asking me for the past week what killed the Amazon deal. There were several factors.

"Incredibly, I have heard city and state elected officials who were opponents of the project claim that Amazon was getting $3 billion in government subsidies that could have been better spent on housing or transportation. This is either a blatant untruth or fundamental ignorance of basic math by a group of elected officials. The city and state 'gave' Amazon nothing. Amazon was to build their headquarters with union jobs and pay the city and state $27 billion in revenues. The city, through existing as-of-right tax credits, and the state through Excelsior Tax credits - a program approved by the same legislators railing against it - would provide up to $3 billion in tax relief, IF Amazon created the 25,000-40,000 jobs and thus generated $27 billion in revenue. You don't need to be the State's Budget Director to know that a nine to one return on your investment is a winner.

[tonyz]

AOC math...similar to Venezuela and Charlie Sheen...WINNING !

$27 billion+ projected revenue (25,000-40,000 jobs - all paying local income, sales and property tax)

- (minus) $3 billion (not-out-of-pocket) tax relief
__________________________________________
= $24 billion lost gains for local economy

Assuming the revenue projections are only 1/2 of the estimates...$13.5 billion - $3 billion still appears to be a fairly robust financial injection into a local economy. Never mind the development and improvement to vacant lots and shitty (technical term) old buildings that will now remain empty...yeah AOC WINNING !

AOC’s preferred policies...don’t attempt to attract one of the most successful business headquarters to your local underdeveloped community.
Result...

0 revenue
- 0 zero tax subsidies
__________________________
= 0 benefits...WINNING !

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

If interested in how the state budget director feels about this...

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/ope...garding-amazon

Christ he has been doing this nearly as many years as AOC has been alive...she is vehemenently defending herself everyone is wrong she is right...Lord of the flies

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by WarriorDiplomat

Christ he has been doing this nearly as many years as AOC has been alive...she is vehemenently defending herself everyone is wrong she is right...Lord of the flies

He completed old school economics with an abacus and pen to paper calculation!

AOC is a product of “New Fuzzy Math” (aka Common Core) brought to education by the late Dept of Education (before DeVos).

[Box]

Even if her math is correct - if you have 27 billion dollars and GIVE me 3 billion dollars - I have not lost 24 billion dollars - I have profited by 3 billion dollars. The conflict with numbers is a matter of "facts" and dont forget, this is a woman who stated clearly in an interview - “There's a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right”

The next conflict is agreeing on the definition of "morally right" - The mistake people keep making is the assumption that AOC shares the same moral values as everyone else. The truth is - her morality is more important than "your" facts. She has been indoctrinated to gangster math - her numbers are correct if you are a gangster collecting 'protection money' -----

We're going to create jobs !
FUCK YOU -PAY ME

...but our company will create between 25,000 and 40,000 new jobs !
FUCK YOU - PAY ME

...but our company will generate 27 billion dollars in state tax revenue
FUCK YOU - PAY ME



Her affinity for facts and moral righteousness simply do not balance. She is just a another gangster trolling for protection money.
Get used to it folks - more is coming


Wait - I forgot, since amercians are so smart and connected, what she is pushing for will "never happen"