John McCain Passes

[hardcorps]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

JMHO YMMV

Hardcorps, glad to see you come back. You still spout the liberal talking points about Trump being a draft dogger. You mentioned earlier that he lived in a New York penthouse as a child, that the family had a crooked doctor that gave him five medical deferments during the height of the Vietnam war and some other stuff.

Could you post up those supporting facts and discuss how Trump is any more or less “privileged” than the life that Sen. John S. McCain III (CPT US Navy Ret) had growing up?

One of these men heaps unquestionably praise on the men and women in uniform and has never stabbed those same in the back. The other not so much while serving as an elected official sitting on the committees most responsible for funding and supporting those same soldiers, airmen, Marines and sailors during and after their service to the country. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) has a dismal voting record on those issues. Don’t even get me started on where he stood regarding POWs and the surviving families of those MIA/POW not returned, not found. (Hopefully now that he’s dead those “classified” files can be de-classified and these families can find closure from a war fought so long ago.)

I don’t believe anyone here is besmirching McCain’s military service or his dedication and patriotism to country. Most of us have problems with the fact that he was the Washington DC “Swamp” maybe the Grand Poobah of the swamp! Republican John McCain put the “R” in RINO. Seems all his best friends are RINOs and Democrats. Hell, Ted Kennedy probably would have had nice things to say at McCain’s funeral. They could both be callled Lions of the Senate.

It’s really quite amazing that one man could live and prosper and die with such acclaim and well wishes by people and organizations (media, Hollywood. Planned Parenthood) that only ten years earlier referred to him as a Nazi, a racist, a war monger, and a liar. I mean really who is this lucky -

He survived crashing three Navy jets (Most Navy pilots would have only been given one crash if that) and someone without the name McCain who graduated at the bottom of his Annapolis Military Academy would have been tossed out of the Navy. (Just like the other Maverick - John was writing checks his body can’t cash, son you don’t own that airplane, the tax payers own that airplane.)
He survived the catastrophic fire onboard the USS Forestall (some think he’s partly to blame but there is no proof of that.)
He survived being shot down and becoming a POW for five and a half years in Hanoi and still was able to return to duty and command a fighter jet squadron until retirement. (That’s pretty impressive to pass all those flight physicals every year up to and until 1981.) (Even more impressive is all those post release black and white photographs of a strapping young man walking free, shaking hands, riding the bus, visiting Vietnamese children/orphans and finally getting to meet President Nixon in the Oval Office ‘on crutches’ - maybe he’d just visited one of those hellish VA hospitals in the Washington area. As a Senator he spoke of finding solutions but voted no on funding improvements.)

Was John McCain unlucky or the luckiest man on earth. He did after all marry Cindy Lou Hensley, aristocratic heiress to the Hensley distribution empire for Anheuser-Busch (richest ‘crooked’ family in Arizona) before running for Congress without meeting the state residency rules...and won!

And how could we forget his role in the Keating Five and the Savings and Loan scandal! Again, just lucky I guess.

The McCain-Finegold Act 2002, set the path for Citizens United, PACs and SuperPACs and other campaign finance issues plaguing elections past and present.

Everything Sen. John McCain, touched turned to shit, except John McCain! Even in death his divisive nature came out according to his final wishes.

“Reach across the isle - politics” that was for nearly four decades John McCain the “Maverick” looking out for John McCain and no one else.

My apologies for the long rant. I joined the Army a couple years before he became a Congressman I am a direct survivor of his politics regarding the military - good, bad, or with indifference to those who served. He undermined Reagan’s foreign policy objectives in the Middle East and Africa. He undermined the CIA in time of war and threw the people protecting the nation under the bus. If not for the first we may not have ever had the second. He undermined the VA healthcare system and unfunded popular parts of the GI Bill. Remember, everything he touched turned to shit!

Rest In Peace John S. McCain III, some people rest in hell because of what you’ve done.

(As I said, I tried to stay out of this thread)

First of all, thank you for your thoughtful and well considered response. I'm a person who follows current events quite thoroughly, using various sources, both liberal and conservative. I've also been a member of the VFW and DAV for many years, and I read the articles in their monthly magazines. I also happen to know a lot of veterans, and have been getting my healthcare through the VA for many years now. And I've been a fan of John McCain's for many years as well, and had been following his career through these various news sources, and also his appearances at press conferences, etc. Despite all that, much of what you've alleged about John McCain in your response comes as a surprise to me.

I did some googling last night to double-check your allegations, and I did find some support for your views, but mostly in left wing and ultra-liberal media. I found an article on HuffPost that echoed and amplified nearly every one of your major negative contentions about McCain. HuffPost, as I'm sure you know, has never had a kind word to say about Donald Trump either. So should I believe what they're telling me about McCain, but disregard what they're saying about Trump?

Where there's smoke there's usually fire, so I'm sure that at least some of your negative contentions about McCain are probably true. Nobody's perfect. Not even Donald Trump, although I have read opinions on this forum that see him with golden halos hovering over his head.

I also did some double-checking on the draft-dodger allegations. Apparently Trump passed his initial draft physicals, back in December of 1966. No evidence of "bone spurs." He was deemed fit for service, but received deferments because of school; same as Bill Clinton. But after he graduated from the University of Pennsylvania, he was again eligible for the draft. In October of 1968, the draft board received a note from the Trump family physician alerting them to the alleged "bone spurs," which led to Trump's classification of 1-Y, which meant he could be inducted only in the event of a national emergency. His deferments from 1964 to 1968 were 2-S, 1-A, and 1-Y. Then, in 1972, after he'd graduated from the Wharton School, and was no longer eligible for any student deferments, his draft status suddenly jumped to 4-F. Shortly afterwards, in 1973, the country did away with the draft altogether.

This is not "Fake News." There are documents. As I'm sure there are documents about McCain as well. But as a Vietnam veteran, I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the man who took the oath, put on the uniform, and flew the warplanes into enemy fire. It surprises and saddens me that there are other vets out there who are so willing to throw a man like that -- a true patriot and a warrior -- under the bus.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by hardcorps

It surprises and saddens me that there are other vets out there who are so willing to throw a man like that -- a true patriot and a warrior -- under the bus.

As I've said elsewhere on this site, McCain's name first came to my attention at the EM Club at Camp Schwab from a couple of your Marine brothers who claimed to be on the Forrestal the day of the fire and the word was that Mac wet started his aircraft to startle the pilot behind him. AND, he was known to do such jackassery a lot. Of course, I have no reason to believe that the Marines weren't just lying, but at the time, McCain was just another Navy pilot and his father had just been named CINCPAC so who knows. His behavior as a POW was no different than most of the other POWs at the time except his was expected because of his family history.

That was 1968 and nothing over the years undermined anything that those Marines told us at Schwab. I had to vote for him for Senate since he didn't have a viable opponent. I voted for Palin for President, not McCain...and his jackassery raised it's tail after that run, too.

Oh, and he wasn't very popular on the Oriskany either. The word there is that he bullied his way onto that last flight and injured himself by not following procedures for proper ejection.

http://www.pythiapress.com/wartales/...-Shootdown.htm

Again, I have no more reason to believe the Sailors than I do the Marines, but where are the good stories? And he's been on my radar screen for 50 years without much to disprove any of the claims.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Thank you for the response. As you know there is a lot of information out there, some true, some made up, some outright lies. Like a I said, I lived much of that period on Active Duty and these are my recollections and memories of his time in Congress. I would never have voted for him based on his record but I did vote for him once (2008) based on his party. (Was probably secretly voting for Palin. I suppose we’ll all never know why he didn’t pick Lieberman to be his running mate - a winning ticket over Obama/Biden.)

While you were searching did you come across Trumps early life (yes he lived in a mansion with butlers and such, his father much like anyone who rose to great wealth from nothing did those things) but he was only there a short time. He spent his formative years as an adolescent and teenager in New York Military Academy. Where he got straightened out and set on a path of success. He was quite good at sports, could have been a professional baseball player, did very well academically and became a leader and mentor in high school - Earning the rank of Captain.

Trump is everything he and the media have had to say about Trump. None of it very good. He wasn’t my first, second or third choice to run the country but there was no way in hell Felonia Vonn Pantsuit was going to be given the keys to the White House. So we got Trump. He’s actually doing a good job, even with all the distractions.

McCain for all his talk of unity and bipartisanship left one person out of the final act. His enemy!

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

.....McCain for all his talk of unity and bipartisanship left one person out of the final act. His enemy!

Two, Gov Palin - who never said a bad word about him even as he stabbed her in the back.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Pete

Two, Gov Palin - who never said a bad word about him even as he stabbed her in the back.

I stand corrected. (Yes, I forgot about her not being invited.)

[cbtengr]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

I stand corrected. (Yes, I forgot about her not being invited.)

He had said that putting her on the ticket was a mistake, guess in the end he learned from his mistakes.

[hardcorps]

Originally Posted by cbtengr

He had said that putting her on the ticket was a mistake, guess in the end he learned from his mistakes.

Unfortunately he realized his mistake too late to make a course correction. Going with a sensible and logical choice like Joe Lieberman might have given him the election and thwarted a second Obama term. We'll never know. As I've already stated quite plainly, I had been a great admirer of McCain for many years. Choosing Palin as his running mate was by far the stupidest decision of his entire career, maybe of his entire life. And it made me, and probably a lot of other people, question his judgement and his fitness to hold the highest office.

[hardcorps]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

He was quite good at sports, could have been a professional baseball player.

Good at sports? Potentially a professional baseball player? Despite those "painful bone spurs"? Funny how those only manifested when he had to go meet with the folks at the local draft board.

[cbtengr]

Originally Posted by hardcorps

Unfortunately he realized his mistake too late to make a course correction. Going with a sensible and logical choice like Joe Lieberman might have given him the election and thwarted a second Obama term. We'll never know. As I've already stated quite plainly, I had been a great admirer of McCain for many years. Choosing Palin as his running mate was by far the stupidest decision of his entire career, maybe of his entire life. And it made me, and probably a lot of other people, question his judgement and his fitness to hold the highest office.

McCain was the soup of the day when he ran for POTUS it was his turn, Palin was the better half of the ticket.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by hardcorps

Unfortunately he realized his mistake too late to make a course correction. Going with a sensible and logical choice like Joe Lieberman might have given him the election and thwarted a second Obama term. We'll never know. As I've already stated quite plainly, I had been a great admirer of McCain for many years. Choosing Palin as his running mate was by far the stupidest decision of his entire career, maybe of his entire life. And it made me, and probably a lot of other people, question his judgement and his fitness to hold the highest office.

The pink font on this site indicates a joke or sarcasm.

You'll find that Palin was mostly liked here.

[cbtengr]

Originally Posted by PSM

The pink font on this site indicates a joke or sarcasm.

You'll find that Palin was mostly liked here.

Of course she was mostly liked here, after all we do march in lock step here.

[hardcorps]

Originally Posted by cbtengr

McCain was the soup of the day when he ran for POTUS it was his turn, Palin was the better half of the ticket.

You mean the lady who knew all about Russia, because she could "see it from her front porch"?

[PSM]

Originally Posted by hardcorps

You mean the lady who knew all about Russia, because she could "see it from her front porch"?

That was Tina Fey on SNL. Catch up. Palin said that you can see Russia from Alaska, and you can.

[hardcorps]

Originally Posted by PSM

That was Tina Fey on SNL. Catch up. Palin said that you can see Russia from Alaska, and you can.

I stand corrected. Shall I get down and give you fifty pushups?

Palin sat down for a series of interviews with CBS anchor Katie Couric later that month in which Palin struggled to answer why Alaska’s proximity to Russia gave her the foreign policy chops necessary to serve as vice president. “Well, it certainly does because our – our next door neighbors are foreign countries. They’re in the state that I am the executive of,” said Palin.
Her performance in these interviews was widely panned by conservative and liberal critics alike.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by hardcorps

I stand corrected. Shall I get down and give you fifty pushups?

Palin sat down for a series of interviews with CBS anchor Katie Couric later that month in which Palin struggled to answer why Alaska’s proximity to Russia gave her the foreign policy chops necessary to serve as vice president. “Well, it certainly does because our – our next door neighbors are foreign countries. They’re in the state that I am the executive of,” said Palin.
Her performance in these interviews was widely panned by conservative and liberal critics alike.

Like me, you're too old. I like to watch women beach vollyballers do push up so that's your punishment. Pix please.