US troops now in 4 African countries to fight LRA

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by dknob

what in the fuck am I reading here???

"When did America become the World Police?" - easy answer; since nobody else would. This world sucks, and if we have the ability to bring a guy like Kony to justice or into a body bag - then by all means do it. This is what we do, and have been doing for years. Stop acting like you just walked in on your wife being fucked by your neighbor.

You people make it sound like the things we do around the world that seemingly have no interests to the US is something new.

"Not at the cost of our troops lives!!" - Seriously WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to judge that?!

This is an all volunteer military and so is SOCOM - anybody who volunteers for a SOF unit, ESPECIALLY for SF, already knows he will be deployed all over the world. Not just in combat zones like Iraq/Afghanistan.

To all the SF guys who have conducted FID deployments and JCETs in places wit no significant interest to the US, how is this any different? You risked your lives in Colombia to stop the FARC and the cartels - why? Because they were killing Colombians and getting Americans high? I can see the huge threat to the American way of life from here.. not (well except maybe protecting those pipelines.. but still you know what I mean). But the reality is - what SF has done and continues to do down there is a noble and amazing cause to help those people.

And to those people spouting off nonsense like "Don't send OUR troops there!" that makes them feel like patriots and troop supporters. The guys on the ground aren't E1s from the 82nd, they are shooters who want nothing more then to be doing the job they signed up for. They don't need or want risk averse civilians like yourselves to speak on their behalf. So simply STFU.

Nobody asked Batman to to fight crime in Gotham - he just did it because he had the means and the heart when nobody else did. FYI.

And if you are getting pissed off because of my rant - then most likely I am targeting YOU.

Dknob OUT!

Dknob,
Cool your jets. Learn to make your point without offending the members. Your point is well taken without all the expletives. Discussion is a great thing, try it.
Team Sergeant

[dknob]

Originally Posted by ZonieDiver

Wow, just WOW!

Some of the people making those comments are far from just being civilians.

I think some people's issues might be with foreign policy / military intervention decisions being made in large part due to a "slick" (I didn't particularly think so, but obviously many did/do) PR video.

And, in case you missed it, some of the people who made some of the comments that induced your F-word laced rant are far from just being civilians!

A friend from SS.com pointed something out minutes ago, and it warrants no response or contradiction as it is set in stone. It's your own motto for christ's sake.

De Oppresso Liber.

When did that apply to Americans only??

Take away the video for a second - I remember hearing about Kony back in 2006 - 2007 time frame. When he ceased operations in Uganda and brought his scourge upon the Congolese. The media and these hipsters talk about child soldiers, rape, and murder. The reality is so much worse.

I think most of you will remember (maybe) how he attacked villages and his forces cannibalized people.

This topic isn't for debate. Free the oppressed, right??

[dknob]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Dknob,
Cool your jets. Learn to make your point without offending the members. Your point is well taken without all the expletives. Discussion is a great thing, try it.
Team Sergeant

You got it, TS.

Emotions and keyboard campaigns don't mix well.

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by dknob

A friend from SS.com pointed something out minutes ago, and it warrants no response or contradiction as it is set in stone. It's your own motto for christ's sake.

De Oppresso Liber.

When did that apply to Americans only??

Take away the video for a second - I remember hearing about Kony back in 2006 - 2007 time frame. When he ceased operations in Uganda and brought his scourge upon the Congolese. The media and these hipsters talk about child soldiers, rape, and murder. The reality is so much worse.

I think most of you will remember (maybe) how he attacked villages and his forces cannibalized people.

This topic isn't for debate. Free the oppressed, right??

I don't think very many would contradict what you say in regard to Kony and the LRA. I don't.

I am fully aware, as are some of the member's you slammed, of the meaning of De Oppresso Liber. However, the history of the world since the advent of Special Forces and its motto is replete with examples where peoples were subjgated, humiliated, killed, forced into being refugees, etc. and the US did NOT intervene. Off the top of my head, let's see... oh, yeah, how about Rwanda? While you, or I, may think a particular situation is rife for intervention, that doesn't mean it is, or should be done.

I think the point that some were trying to make in regard to "world's policeman" in general, and Africa in particular, is "why here" and "why now"? Kony is far from the only problem. When he is gone, will another almost immediately take his "place" as a scourge on humanity?

All I was trying to point out is that some the opinions with which you vehemently differed were voiced by people who were not "just civilians", and may have experience, some extensive, in that particular area of the world.

Thanks for the reasoned response.

[mugwump]

Expense 2011 breakdown below. Response to financial concerns here.

breakdownofexpenses.jpg

[Richard]

Originally Posted by dknob

what in the fuck am I reading here???

That's pretty much what I thought when I was reading your post.

Having a 1+ in profanity is not impressive and, IMO, actually had the effect of diluting any salient points you might have made in that post to nearly zero.

Richard

[Pete]

Originally Posted by dknob

.............Take away the video for a second - I remember hearing about Kony back in 2006 - 2007 time frame..........

US Military troops have been kicking around in Africa since shortly after WW II.

Lots of SF mostly everywhere - but also lots of just about every other MOS - and the other sister services.

All of us did the job we were sent to do at the time.

We all have our opinions of Africa - but we're not a Merc Force running around the Congo - not to say we didn't run around Zaire but................damn, I hated that parade.

[head]

Originally Posted by dknob

...idealism and swear words...

Dknob, those civilians that you disparage are the ones that decide where we go. For them not to ask questions of our government regarding strategy, endstate, and cost estimate when using our military, would be a betrayal of the faith that military action is used for justifiable reasons. If good answers can be given to the hard questions, what is wrong with asking them? If the answer is we have no strategy or endstate... it starts the discussion.

Most SF guys realize the 2nd and 3rd order effects of presence on the ground and realize that these situations are not as cut and dry as the slick editing on the video makes it seem. As to your comment regarding shooters just wanting to do their job, in Special Forces, when we are asked to go up a hill, we ask "Why? What do you seek to accomplish? What is the tactical advantage? Is there a better hill?" Many times we have no say, but at least, it improves our understanding of the situation and improves our decision-making when we are on the ground.

Of course, whether I want to go or how many oppressed persons I want to liberate or whether I think I'm Batman never plays into the equation, the government decides and I don't think it is too much to ask for ANYONE that calls for our troops to be deployed to be informed beyond a 30 minute youtube video.

-a shooter

[Dusty]

Our involvement in Africa at this juncture would, I believe, be much more extensive and intense were sand worth big money.

[Mr Furious]

For once Snookie actually makes some sense. http://tinyurl.com/8xpc2q9

[DevilSide]

I realize Africa has always been like this, and that arresting/killing this guy might not change very much, but to me it's a start. We can set up disaster relief, medical clinics to fight malaria, disease, etc. to try and help them but it doesn't make much better when people like this guy are doing whatever they want, and the local governments are too incompetent and corrupt themselves, to do anything about it. Like it was said earlier, only way to stop these people is to shoot them in the face. I'm not saying this because of a 30 minute video, it might be whatever, but I think it's done some good to expose people to the reality, but I think our help, and that of the west, is wanted by the people. This is just my $.02, part of the reason I decided to become a soldier is to do some good not just for my country but hopefully for others in the world too, I know that sounds really idealistic, but I'm down to help others as much as I can.

[MTN Medic]

Originally Posted by mugwump

Watch the video. Sing along...All they are sayyyying is give war a chance.

The organization brought the public pressure to bear on the Obama administration that resulted in the current deployment. It's a social media campaign to keep the pressure on congress to actually finish what we started. Not a bad thing.

This movement is bringing a lot of positive attention to SF and their mission re: UW/FID. I would have thought that's a good thing. The Navy would know what to do with this public relations windfall.

I have questions about their financial transparency and I doubt they'll get my money, but they address that issue as well. At least they aren't saying lets all get together in a drum circle for world peace. They're saying put pressure on your representatives to finish the job and kill this bastard.

Some us us are giving war a chance... and not making/spending millions doing it. Just saying Hoss.

[MTN Medic]

Originally Posted by afchic

So by all means, lets teach our children not to care. Lets teach them that we adults are not able to practice what we teach. I don't know about you, but I think it is a good thing when you have a 14 year old little girl begin to understand how lucky she has it to be born in the USA. That she has it better than a vast majority of people on an entire continent. That she begins to ask questions about how the US develops its Foreign Policy, right wrong or indifferent. I guess it doesn't matter..... because we adults say it doesn't matter.

I say BULLSHIT. I am not advocating for the US to go in and right every wrong in the world. But I am advocating for our children to learn about the world around them, and if things like this get them asking questions, I don't see it as a bad thing.

Let's instead teach our children to read up on their history and their current events. I did this in school and it worked marvels. I continue this trend to this day and that is why I know that this shit doesn't work. Do you remember all the emphasis placed on Darfur? Hell yeah!! What did we do there? Nothing. Why? Because that country (as well as more and more of Africa is RUN by China).

Don't get angry before getting educated on the matter. Some of us on this board; this is our office. You want to kill Kony? With the millions that were donated to these asshats, I am sure that me and a couple of hobos off the street could end Koney's miserable existence. But... it wont do a thing. There will be another speed freak kid stealer to take his place the next drug addled morning.

[SF18C]

yeah this sums up the latest fad

[head]

Originally Posted by mugwump

I'm a guy who should stay in General Discussions and regrets when he strays. All of your points are well taken. Thank you for your service.

Mugwump,

I did not mean to stifle any of your commentary or seem like I was pulling a "QP trump card." My caveat was in case I seemed as though I was talking down to someone of experience, having nothing to go on to assume this was or wasn't the case. I tend to check profiles to tailor my discussion depending on the other party's background. I in no way dismiss your opinion because of a lack of credentials and encourage the dialogue. My main issue was the opinion that we need to support this NGO just because they support war.