Revolution in the United States

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by craigepo

The Declaration of Independence you reference was a good example of an "appropriate" reason for revolution, although today's average US citizen is much too passive for this to be a realistic spark to revolution.

There may not have been as much a distinction among the general population then as compared to now as we might think!

Scholarly estimates place the active Loyalist population (those actively opposed to Independence) at 15%-20%. Passive support for the revolutionists among the general population was at best 40% - 45%. This leaves only 35%-45% of the population as active revolutionists and that figure appeared to wax and wane significantly during the course of the Revolution.

Therefore, the notion that support for the revolution was popular at the time is a myth. Instead it was a dedicated minority that led us to independence and if you think about it, that is pretty consistent with human nature in general.

Viewed in that light, the commitment by the Founders of their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor is so very humbling to me. These guys knew what they were risking and they also knew that the odds were against them. But they did it anyway!

DOL

Robert M. Calhoon, in 'A companion to the American Revolution', (2000); p 235.

[Hand]

I think this is a very somber and timely topic. I'm formulating another post in my mind, but in the meantime I ask - if there is to be a revolution, who exactly are we revolting against?

The last good Revolution we had around here, there were troops representing a foreign power to fight. I don't see that now. Aside from some Fusion centers, a few thousand armed IRS agents and some DHS people, there really isn't an "enemy force" to overthrow.

The enemy (currently) is the government itself. If a revolution were to occur, sending a few folks into a few choice federal buildings (IRS, DHS, AG, Capital bldg etc...) and running all existing corrupt fuckers out the front door with a nice stiff boot in the ass would suffice. Then what? Elect different people to fill those spots and start all over again? How long would THIS version last before it became as corrupt and money hungry as the current version?

Is the turbulent transitionary period going to expose us to say a nuclear attack from non-nuclear Iran, or maybe even a serious invasion by China or Russia?

[Box]

One thing to keep in mind is "who wins". If a few key battles had gone the other way, we might still be an English colony. Benedict Arnold might be a national hero for helping to put down the rebellion.

...that give me liberty or give me death guy?
HAHAHA you want death mother fucker, done - DEAD / and we wouldn't even know who Patrick Henry was.

George Washington and most of his drinking buddies would have been hungs as traitors.
...now, in contrast, what did those same folks do once they won their rebellion and assumed power of their newly acquired nation?

Hell, George Washington was still the POTUS when the Whiskey Rebellion started.
...you know, all of that go-to-war-over-taxes thing meant something different when YOU are the one in charge of taking taxes from the citizens.

BULLSHIT - that rebellion was put down quick fast and in a hurry...
...taxation without representation my big-ole-butt

If the federales' say that it is a legitmate tax, then by the power vested in me by the good lord and king George, that shit is L.E.G.A.L.
...if you doubt that, just read the SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare.


Rebellion is never...
...EVER
...ever-ever-ever a good idea unless you are willing to hang for it and go down in history not as a revolutionary, but as a traitor.

The winner is the one that gets to write history.



Just my two cents, I could be wrong on this one.

[PSM]

Actually, what we call the American Revolution was the American Secession in that we did not change the ruling government we just ceased to be ruled by it.

I doubt that we would actually have a real revolution in the sense of creating a whole new form of government and constitution, we would just be overthrowing a corrupt bureaucracy that has, over time, perpetrated a silent coup. So, the enemy would be the bureaucrats in government and their supporters.

Pat

[Streck-Fu]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

There may not have been as much a distinction among the general population then as compared to now as we might think!

Scholarly estimates place the active Loyalist population (those actively opposed to Independence) at 15%-20%. Passive support for the revolutionists among the general population was at best 40% - 45%. This leaves only 35%-45% of the population as active revolutionists and that figure appeared to wax and wane significantly during the course of the Revolution.

Therefore, the notion that support for the revolution was popular at the time is a myth. Instead it was a dedicated minority that led us to independence and if you think about it, that is pretty consistent with human nature in general.

Viewed in that light, the commitment by the Founders of their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor is so very humbling to me. These guys knew what they were risking and they also knew that the odds were against them. But they did it anyway!

DOL

Robert M. Calhoon, in 'A companion to the American Revolution', (2000); p 235.

I wouldn't be surprised if those estimates are actually high. The propaganda campaign before the revolution was necessary just to get enough support to make the idea of rebellion possible.

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

I wouldn't be surprised if those estimates are actually high. The propaganda campaign before the revolution was necessary just to get enough support to make the idea of rebellion possible.

And that's why Step 1 in everybody's book is "create a climate for revolution". To reinforce what others have noted: "there is no critical mass of malcontents" and "be careful what you wish for". I think there is an element of validity to the comparisons with Weimar Germany (especially if the current 18 trillion dollar debt suddenly comes due) and look what happened to them. Personally, I hope the soapbox and the ballot box are sufficient for the required course correction; I really don't want to experience the third option.

[Golf1echo]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

And that's why Step 1 in everybody's book is "create a climate for revolution". To reinforce what others have noted: "there is no critical mass of malcontents" and "be careful what you wish for". I think there is an element of validity to the comparisons with Weimar Germany (especially if the current 18 trillion dollar debt suddenly comes due) and look what happened to them. Personally, I hope the soapbox and the ballot box are sufficient for the required course correction; I really don't want to experience the third option.

The pre World War II hyperinflation is often forgotten but certainly gave impetus to all that transpired. Here is what it looked like with stamps. These jokers can only take so much out of every dollar we make and yet they continue to try and get it all and then some. Certainly bad policy and it remains to be seen if sanity will prevail and sensible practices can be implemented to empower the citizenry and not the politicians and their contributors.

[Trapper John]

Peregrino, I think you are absolutely correct in that assessment. It always comes down to economics and/or the oppression (perceived or otherwise) of the majority by the elites.

In our case we already have significant portions of the indig at or near a flash point. And all it would take is the loss of the dollars reference currency status (a move that is already underway by our enemies).

This would cause hyperinflation and interest rates to rise dwarfing that what we experienced in the '70s. This would also be coupled with a massive depression.

The rioting and violence that follows would force the Federal government to act and we would then see why Homeland Security has purchased all that ammo.

My sense is that we have maybe one or two more opportunities to change the trajectory before it's inevitable.

[craigepo]

I wonder if we are all making a fallacious assumption here. We assume that a revolution would be toward a goal of restoring American freedoms, liberty, Constitutional law, etc. Historically, revolutions often go the other way. Moreover, there is a large percentage of the country that doesn't give a damn about the nation, it's Constitution, perpetuation of our freedoms, or even basic decency for that matter. To wit:


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/us...=36208421&_r=0

For those that can't get to the attached New York Times article, the author notes a large increase in murders this year in US cities. Many are calling this "the Ferguson effect", caused by a lack of law enforcement which emboldens the criminal element.

When you start doing the math, if you add our criminal element, our government dependents, the effete America haters, and those who just don't give a damn, today's US revolution could well end up looking more like something Lenin or Castro would plan.

[Sdiver]

Originally Posted by craigepo

I wonder if we are all making a fallacious assumption here. We assume that a revolution would be toward a goal of restoring American freedoms, liberty, Constitutional law, etc. Historically, revolutions often go the other way. Moreover, there is a large percentage of the country that doesn't give a damn about the nation, it's Constitution, perpetuation of our freedoms, or even basic decency for that matter.

I agree with Craig here ....

Is a Revolution what we need right now, or do we need something more along the lines of a Coup ???

Getting rid of the politicians, on both sides of the aisle, that have put us in the mess we're in. We only have ourselves to blame, by putting the same politicians back into office time after time.

There really should be term limits put in place for both Senators and Congress-feeders. It's the career politicians that have messed things up over time and that's why they need to go.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Sdiver

I agree with Craig here ....

Is a Revolution what we need right now, or do we need something more along the lines of a Coup ???

Getting rid of the politicians, on both sides of the aisle, that have put us in the mess we're in. We only have ourselves to blame, by putting the same politicians back into office time after time.

There really should be term limits put in place for both Senators and Congress-feeders. It's the career politicians that have messed things up over time and that's why they need to go.

The truth is that there already has been a revolution in the country, in which the hippies took power over a period of 40 years or so by taking over the schools, universities, media, and Hollywood.

[Box]

I think it is funny that so many people fail to recognize the genius of Sun Tzu in the effectiveness of the liberal revolution that has been going on for over a decade now...

What is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy
-liberals have done this for years and republican leaders are too stupid to see it. Republicans spend all of their effort apologizing for their positions and defending their strategy and fail to spend any effort actually advancing their strategy

Liberals - 1 / America - 0



All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
-its all about the children, global warming is going to kill us all, Social justice is all about equality, lets visit all 57 states, you've gotta pass it to read it, planned parenthood is all about womens health. It's all smoke and mirrors wrapped up in the deception that liberals actually give a shit. They don't - they are all hypocrites. If you doubt it, just do some simple analysis of aL g0re and his carbon footprint.

Liberals - 2 / America - 0



If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.

The silent majority is easy to "evade". We have become so tempermental and irritated at how fucked up the nation is that we are no longer prepared to deal with the constant onslaught of liberal policy.
Clearly we have watched liberals use things like the tea party, race, abortion, religion, and Donald Trump to separate the 'right'
...and most republicans are too stupid to notice

Liberals - 3 / America - 0



Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness.
-the absolute mindless drivel that emanates from the mouths of liberals is complete and utter bullshit. Political Correctness, Social Justice, Hope and Change? what in the fuck does all of that really mean?
Nothing... its formless, soundless bullshit. Yet, however subtle, everything "means" something. The POTUS is in Alaska to continue his zealous pursuit of his global warming
...sorry it's called climate change now, not global warming
his zealous pursuit of his climate change agenda...
-Does anyone know what kind of climate change magic tricks he has planned for his Alaska visit?
Not that I have seen reported on TV; at least not yet.
-Does anybody know the new name of the mountain?
...of course you do. You also kow the ENTIRE story behind it now don't you.
-Does anybody know the name of the reality TV show he is going to be on?
...of course you do, because you are wondering if the guy is going to try and get the POTUS to drink his own pee!

Yet, nobody knows what kind of global warming speech he has planned. Renaming mountains and making guest appearance on reality TV shows is sleight of hand. Interesting and mysterious, but formless and soundless. its just a distraction from what he really has planned.
...and the republicans are just too stupid to notice

Liberals - 4 / America - 0




There is already a revolution in America, and America is already losing...
and do you know why?
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
...because the republicans refuse to admit that the liberals have been waging war against America since the 1960's.

Liberals - 5 / America - 0



I could go on, but everyone gets the idea. It wont be long until all we can legally watch on TV are reruns of Billie Jean King beating Bobby Riggs at tennis...

GAME-SET-MATCH

[1stindoor]

Originally Posted by Hand

...The enemy (currently) is the government itself. If a revolution were to occur, sending a few folks into a few choice federal buildings (IRS, DHS, AG, Capital bldg etc...) and running all existing corrupt fuckers out the front door with a nice stiff boot in the ass would suffice. Then what? Elect different people to fill those spots and start all over again? How long would THIS version last before it became as corrupt and money hungry as the current version? ...

Why am I reminded of the movie "I'm Gonna Git You Sucka," after reading that?

Kalinga:
Yes, we marched on the Federal building. Five hundred of us, young brothers, full of outrage.

Kalinga:
They were hiring that day. The brothers came with outrage; they left with jobs. Oh, yes; the white man is very tricky.

[Sdiver]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

The truth is that there already has been a revolution in the country, in which the hippies took power over a period of 40 years or so by taking over the schools, universities, media, and Hollywood.

Very true RL ... Very true.

So as Tommy Lee Jones said in that cinematic classic, Under Siege ... Yes, of course! Hence the name: movement. It moves a certain distance, then it stops, you see? A revolution gets its name by always coming back around in your face. You tried to kill me you son of a bitch... so welcome to the revolution.

Seeing that the Dems/Libs/Progressives/Socialists have effected a revolution, we need to effect a change to keep that revolution going and back in THEIR face and as everyone here on this board knows, the best way to make a change is by the THREE boxes ... The Soap Box, The Ballot Box, and as a last resort, the Bullet Box.

So, IMO, the best way to effect this change, would be to get rid of the "old guard" currently in place, before they become more entrenched in their position(s).

John and Paul said it best ...

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow

We need to remind them of this and send a message that their practices, procedures and ideologies are going to be short lived .... before it's too late.

[sinjefe]

Originally Posted by craigepo

I wonder if we are all making a fallacious assumption here. We assume that a revolution would be toward a goal of restoring American freedoms, liberty, Constitutional law, etc. Historically, revolutions often go the other way. Moreover, there is a large percentage of the country that doesn't give a damn about the nation, it's Constitution, perpetuation of our freedoms, or even basic decency for that matter. To wit:


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/us...=36208421&_r=0

For those that can't get to the attached New York Times article, the author notes a large increase in murders this year in US cities. Many are calling this "the Ferguson effect", caused by a lack of law enforcement which emboldens the criminal element.

When you start doing the math, if you add our criminal element, our government dependents, the effete America haters, and those who just don't give a damn, today's US revolution could well end up looking more like something Lenin or Castro would plan.

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