US troops now in 4 African countries to fight LRA

[mugwump]

...and yes they sometimes come off like hipster deuches and the video is cringeworthy at spots but in general it seems a great way to generate some goodwill in a strategic area and do some good to boot.

Plus the European hipsters *hate* this campaign -- "it's interfering with potential peace talks blah blah. You're making Kony feel insecure." That has to be a good sign.

[mugwump]

Originally Posted by Mntneers

Certainly an outstanding ad campaign, but don't be so fast to jump on the "Kony 2012" bandwagon. Not that it's not a great message because it is, but the charity behind it "Invisible Children", at least in my eyes, could essentially be called a scam.

http://thedailywh.at/2012/03/07/on-kony-2012-2/

And all of these influential high school, college and young adult aged activists-for-a-day are going to donate and tell their friends to donate to that group instead of many others that will actually help those kids in Africa.

"Scam" is unwarranted, at least from what is known so far. They lack transparency and their financial statements are bit of a joke but if they were a "scam" they would certainly have made a better attempt at covering up.

The top three principals are getting ~$80K/year and from what I've read they are being hammered by the European Internet community (this is arguably the first meme war) for funneling arms to the locals for self-defense.

They have apparently learned that weapons without training are useless. This whole campaign is designed to keep pressure on the US congress to keep SF troops in place for UW/FID training.

[mugwump]

Originally Posted by charlietwo

head! That picture simultaneously made me laugh and cry. You may have melted my brain!



Look at the Invisible Children financial statement The functional expenses are.. well, I don't understand what they're doing with their $7m revenue (to put it lightly). Perhaps they would like to send in the terrifying Blue Helmet Crew? When I noticed they were trending #2 on Twitter, I didn't trust it. Seems too fabricated.

Kudos to your daughter for paying attention to something outside of her sphere. Just remind her that the only way to stop tyrants is to shoot them in the face.

You should look into this a little further before you jump to conclusions. They most certainly do not want the "Blue Helmet Crew" sent in. Their purported goal is the continued presence of the 10th Special Forces, the training of local forces, and the sudden, violent and bloody death of this bastard.

These guys are going under the microscope and my guess is they are going to wish they were never born, much less start an Internet social media campaign. The European hipsters (meme war: US side=kill the bastard, EU side=peace talk talk talk talk...) are already digging into End User certificates and trying to nail them.

Claims are flying around that a bunch of their money was used to supply weapons to the locals and in attempts to set up local self-defense militias. Who knows. But what does seem clear is that their current goal is the continued presence of Special Forces boots on the ground.

I certainly hope that this whole campaign pans out as legit. There are enough cynical people in the world as it is.

[mugwump]

Originally Posted by head

Gotta love this photo from that link.

They're getting hammered for this picture from all sides. The Brit university hipsters and hackers (imagine Anonymous and Wikileaks being on your trail) are claiming that they are showing off weapons that they purchased for a local self-defense militia that they were attempting to set up.

I say let's reserve judgement. Their finances are certainly going to be under the microscope and if they have fiddled end user certificates, as some are claiming, they are facing federal and "world court" beefs as well.

[head]

mugwump,

Look, I don't know who you are (your profile is a vague, but it looks like you've been around here for a while so you may have been blessed off)... but just because they are saying "give war a chance" does not make me a fan of theirs. "It is well that war is so terrible. We should grow too fond of it."

I don't think IC is bad and I reserve judgement on some of the other points... but they do oversimplify the "how" in a manner that turns me off. The photo of them posing with weapons merely amplifies this feeling.

I, like all soldiers, have to go fight wherever I'm told whether it's some bad intel about WMD's or it's college hipsters who use social media to rally the troops. I just don't like for "where" to be decided by the strength of ad campaign or by the calls to war from the people who didn't know the man they want capture/dead even existed two days ago (that didn't attack the US, thanks)

But it is funny that the ones who will make up that military presence... are about the same demographic as the ones running around wearing pins and wristbands asking for the troops to go there. I'm not saying for them to sign up in the military, I just want them to recognize that there is always a price to be paid - look at "Blackhawk Down." Is Kony worth American lives? Is Kony worth THEIR lives?

Let's finish the job? Sure... when is the job finished? Take out Kony? What about the next Kony? Are we now America World Police and should start going down the list of the world's top criminals? I'm not saying that Kony isn't a bad guy that deserves to die... but what is the strategic benefit to America for hunting down this guy? If we can accomplish any our strategic goals by simply conducting FID and letting the LN armies keep him on the run, why do we need to commit any more troops or go after him ourselves?

I don't think we'll be out of a job without IC. There will always be shitty militaries to train and humanitarian problemsto fix in Africa. We've had trainers in there under ACRI since the 90's. I agree that we could capitalize on the current media spotlight in that area - turn it into a little recruitment campaign for SF.

[afchic]

Originally Posted by John_Chrichton

I thought it was photoshoped. Hipsters with AKs and RPGs haha

The American Apparel People's Liberation Army.

This campaign is bullcrap. Remember when everyone was gung-ho about the genocide in Darfur? Now nobody gives a damn. Public attention has been directed elsewhere.

So by all means, lets teach our children not to care. Lets teach them that we adults are not able to practice what we teach. I don't know about you, but I think it is a good thing when you have a 14 year old little girl begin to understand how lucky she has it to be born in the USA. That she has it better than a vast majority of people on an entire continent. That she begins to ask questions about how the US develops its Foreign Policy, right wrong or indifferent. I guess it doesn't matter..... because we adults say it doesn't matter.

I say BULLSHIT. I am not advocating for the US to go in and right every wrong in the world. But I am advocating for our children to learn about the world around them, and if things like this get them asking questions, I don't see it as a bad thing.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by afchic

So by all means, lets teach our children not to care. Lets teach them that we adults are not able to practice what we teach. I don't know about you, but I think it is a good thing when you have a 14 year old little girl begin to understand how lucky she has it to be born in the USA. That she has it better than a vast majority of people on an entire continent. That she begins to ask questions about how the US develops its Foreign Policy, right wrong or indifferent. I guess it doesn't matter..... because we adults say it doesn't matter.

I say BULLSHIT. I am not advocating for the US to go in and right every wrong in the world. But I am advocating for our children to learn about the world around them, and if things like this get them asking questions, I don't see it as a bad thing.

Great post Afchic!! And when our children learn to question and seek knowledge, sometimes they do great things like serve their country!

[LSUinNL]

While the cause might be noble. The campaign firestorm over the past few days reeks more of car-magnet patriotism because it's "in" at the moment than any real care of whats happening over there.

[dknob]

what in the fuck am I reading here???

"When did America become the World Police?" - easy answer; since nobody else would. This world sucks, and if we have the ability to bring a guy like Kony to justice or into a body bag - then by all means do it. This is what we do, and have been doing for years. Stop acting like you just walked in on your wife being fucked by your neighbor.

You people make it sound like the things we do around the world that seemingly have no interests to the US is something new.

"Not at the cost of our troops lives!!" - Seriously WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to judge that?!

This is an all volunteer military and so is SOCOM - anybody who volunteers for a SOF unit, ESPECIALLY for SF, already knows he will be deployed all over the world. Not just in combat zones like Iraq/Afghanistan.

To all the SF guys who have conducted FID deployments and JCETs in places wit no significant interest to the US, how is this any different? You risked your lives in Colombia to stop the FARC and the cartels - why? Because they were killing Colombians and getting Americans high? I can see the huge threat to the American way of life from here.. not (well except maybe protecting those pipelines.. but still you know what I mean). But the reality is - what SF has done and continues to do down there is a noble and amazing cause to help those people.

And to those people spouting off nonsense like "Don't send OUR troops there!" that makes them feel like patriots and troop supporters. The guys on the ground aren't E1s from the 82nd, they are shooters who want nothing more then to be doing the job they signed up for. They don't need or want risk averse civilians like yourselves to speak on their behalf. So simply STFU.

Nobody asked Batman to to fight crime in Gotham - he just did it because he had the means and the heart when nobody else did. FYI.

And if you are getting pissed off because of my rant - then most likely I am targeting YOU.

Dknob OUT!

[mugwump]

Originally Posted by head

mugwump,

Look, I don't know who you are (your profile is a vague, but it looks like you've been around here for a while so you may have been blessed off)... but just because they are saying "give war a chance" does not make me a fan of theirs. "It is well that war is so terrible. We should grow too fond of it."

I'm a guy who should stay in General Discussions and regrets when he strays. All of your points are well taken. Thank you for your service.

[Mntneers]

Originally Posted by mugwump

"Scam" is unwarranted, at least from what is known so far. They lack transparency and their financial statements are bit of a joke but if they were a "scam" they would certainly have made a better attempt at covering up.

The top three principals are getting ~$80K/year and from what I've read they are being hammered by the European Internet community (this is arguably the first meme war) for funneling arms to the locals for self-defense.

They have apparently learned that weapons without training are useless. This whole campaign is designed to keep pressure on the US congress to keep SF troops in place for UW/FID training.

Firstly all of my gripes is with Invisible Children. I fully support getting in there and killing Kony.

IMO scam is very much warranted, and until they stop refusing to have their financials audited and stop refusing to work with the BBB, they are HIGHLY questionable. As it is their financials certainly have to make you scratch your head. The 3 founders are making $89,000, $88,000, $84,000 which is pure profit. And there's are people that are oh so worried about the children in Africa? Total revenue is close to 14 million... Only 8.8 million of that went into thir programs. There's NO explanation as to where that excess 5 million went. 31% of funds ever make it to Uganda. And how much of that ever gets to the kids, which this is all about right?

The film itself was made from film they took in 2004! The film is basically a call to action. It's like showing a video of 9/11 today and saying we need to stop this problem NOW. The LRA has not even been present in Uganda in 6 years, and yet to donate to Invisible Children (aside from buying them first class tickets to and from Africa, brand new cameras, production equipment) the money is backing the Ugandan army, which has been accused of raping, looting and using children soldiers! This is also supporting the president of Uganda who among other human rights violations has; tortured prisoners, oppressed other political parties and has been trying to pass a bill that allows all convicted homosexuals to be killed.

The majority of the people pushing this "charity" are the same people that immediately criticize the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan because "it's an illegal war" "war is never right" etc. And yet what they don't realize about Invisible Children is that they want to start a war in Africa. They're supporting a bill passed 2 years ago that allows military intervention. I'd love to hear the armchair-activists flooding Facebook support that claim while walking around with a t-shirt bought from Invisible Children with "End A War" plastered on the front.

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by dknob

what in the fuck am I reading here???

"When did America become the World Police?" - easy answer; since nobody else would. This world sucks, and if we have the ability to bring a guy like Kony to justice or into a body bag - then by all means do it. This is what we do, and have been doing for years. Stop acting like you just walked in on your wife being fucked by your neighbor.

You people make it sound like the things we do around the world that seemingly have no interests to the US is something new.

"Not at the cost of our troops lives!!" - Seriously WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to judge that?! This is an all volunteer military and so is SOCOM - anybody who volunteers for a SOF unit, ESPECIALLY for SF, already knows he will be deployed all over the world. Not just in combat zones like Iraq/Afghanistan.

To all the SF guys who have conducted FID deployments and JCETs in places wit no significant interest to the US, how is this any different? You risked your lives in Colombia to stop the FARC and the cartels - why? Because they were killing Colombians and getting Americans high? I can see the huge threat to the American way of life from here.. not (well except maybe protecting those pipelines.. but still you know what I mean). But the reality is - what SF has done and continues to do down there is a noble and amazing cause to help those people.

And to those people spouting off nonsense like "Don't send OUR troops there!" that makes them feel like patriots and troop supporters. The guys on the ground aren't E1s from the 82nd, they are shooters who want nothing more then to be doing the job they signed up for. They don't need or want risk averse civilians like yourselves to speak on their behalf. So simply STFU.

Nobody asked Batman to to fight crime in Gotham - he just did it because he had the means and the heart when nobody else did. FYI.

And if you are getting pissed off because of my rant - then most likely I am targeting YOU.

Dknob OUT!

Wow, just WOW!

Some of the people making those comments are far from just being civilians.

I think some people's issues might be with foreign policy / military intervention decisions being made in large part due to a "slick" (I didn't particularly think so, but obviously many did/do) PR video.

And, in case you missed it, some of the people who made some of the comments that induced your F-word laced rant are far from just being civilians!

[charlietwo]

Good rundown from theblaze.com ref IC here

[Guymullins]

Originally Posted by dknob

what in the fuck am I reading here???

"When did America become the World Police?" - easy answer; since nobody else would. This world sucks, and if we have the ability to bring a guy like Kony to justice or into a body bag - then by all means do it. This is what we do, and have been doing for years. Stop acting like you just walked in on your wife being fucked by your neighbor.

You people make it sound like the things we do around the world that seemingly have no interests to the US is something new.

"Not at the cost of our troops lives!!" - Seriously WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to judge that?!

This is an all volunteer military and so is SOCOM - anybody who volunteers for a SOF unit, ESPECIALLY for SF, already knows he will be deployed all over the world. Not just in combat zones like Iraq/Afghanistan.

To all the SF guys who have conducted FID deployments and JCETs in places wit no significant interest to the US, how is this any different? You risked your lives in Colombia to stop the FARC and the cartels - why? Because they were killing Colombians and getting Americans high? I can see the huge threat to the American way of life from here.. not (well except maybe protecting those pipelines.. but still you know what I mean). But the reality is - what SF has done and continues to do down there is a noble and amazing cause to help those people.

And to those people spouting off nonsense like "Don't send OUR troops there!" that makes them feel like patriots and troop supporters. The guys on the ground aren't E1s from the 82nd, they are shooters who want nothing more then to be doing the job they signed up for. They don't need or want risk averse civilians like yourselves to speak on their behalf. So simply STFU.

Nobody asked Batman to to fight crime in Gotham - he just did it because he had the means and the heart when nobody else did. FYI.

And if you are getting pissed off because of my rant - then most likely I am targeting YOU.

Dknob OUT!

Some reasons why America finds itself the worlds policeman, is the quality of cop in Africa. We have a policeman marking the road at an accident scene using the barrel of his rifle. This may seem a little careless to an American, but it is not really a problem here in South Africa because policemen have lost or sold 70 000 weapons in the last two years, so it is quite easy to replace.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by dknob

To all the SF guys who have conducted FID deployments and JCETs in places wit no significant interest to the US, how is this any different? You risked your lives in Colombia to stop the FARC and the cartels - why?

Dknob OUT!

Bogota per diem.

Seriously, though, as to the rest of your post-I understand where you're coming from and concur with most of it.