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Old 04-02-2011, 10:57   #1
Buffalobob
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New Transonically Stable 308 Bullet

Berger has designed and tested a new 308 bullet that will pass through the transonic zone without being upset. It is not yet listed on their website but is in the production line. Bryan Litz, the ballistician for Berger has loaded ammo listed for sale on his website. It may have some interesting applications for the military in terms of extending the range of the 308 sniper rifles.

Here is the link

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/TacticalAmmo.html
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Old 04-02-2011, 13:10   #2
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Interesting. Nowhere in that page do they indicate what their muzzle velocity is out of the 20-inch OBR.
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Old 04-02-2011, 21:14   #3
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You should duly note that it is not ammo loaded by Berger. It is loaded by Bryan who keeps his personal company even while an employee of Berger.

I would suspect it is not loaded to any extreme velocity for insurance liability reasons. I would imagine out of a 20 inch barrel you could get 2500 to 2550 fps depending on lots of factors.
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Old 04-02-2011, 21:27   #4
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Does barrel length and rifling have much affect on transonically stabilizing a bullet? I have a friend who builds custom tactical rifles and he made one with a barrel that was about three feet long. He was trying to explain it all to me but I was in a hurry that day and I didn't quite get all of it. Just curious.
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Old 04-04-2011, 16:17   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobob View Post
You should duly note that it is not ammo loaded by Berger. It is loaded by Bryan who keeps his personal company even while an employee of Berger.

I would suspect it is not loaded to any extreme velocity for insurance liability reasons. I would imagine out of a 20 inch barrel you could get 2500 to 2550 fps depending on lots of factors.
edit: I'm speaking about 168g

I have a 20 inch barrel on my VTR. My last load I built was hitting 2550, but Hornady Tap comes out 2650 almost every time. I still need to chrono my Federal Gold Medal Match SMKs.

I have the program "shooter" for my android phone. It's my favorite thing about the phone. It seems to me that a lot of though was put into it. It has a lot of G1 and G7 profiles for bullets by Litz. Anyway I can't wait to see this round. I took my furthest shot this weekend at 650 yards. It's the furthest place I've found to shoot.

Sorry for the ramble, I just love shooting at distance.

Last edited by Ramirez; 04-04-2011 at 16:19.
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Old 04-03-2011, 00:12   #6
mojaveman
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Originally Posted by Brush Okie View Post
Some tests done a few years ago found that there is very little to no velocity loss out of a 20 in barrel for a .308 depending on the powder. Here is a link to an article I found using my google-fu

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

And and except from the article.
That would equate to about 4FPS for each inch of barrel length lost.

Last edited by mojaveman; 04-03-2011 at 00:15.
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Old 04-03-2011, 05:45   #7
Buffalobob
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Quote:
Does barrel length and rifling have much affect on transonically stabilizing a bullet? I have a friend who builds custom tactical rifles and he made one with a barrel that was about three feet long. He was trying to explain it all to me but I was in a hurry that day and I didn't quite get all of it. Just curious.
Most serious 1K competitors using the 308 will use a 28-30 inch barrel. They will hand load their own ammunition and will push pressures as high as they can without affecting group size. The idea is to achieve high velocity to minimize wind drift and drop variations and to stay above Mach 1.2.

Barrel twist is not especially important to transonic stability above and beyond regular stability concerns. Bullet shape is important. Shallow boat tail angle and no meplat or very small meplat, and short bearing surface seem to be important. Interestingly, the old black powder buffalo sharps aficionados shoot cast lead bullets very accurately far beyond the transonic zone.

As far as the Swat study I have not shot any factory loaded rifle ammo in three decades so I just don't have any knowledge base concerning burning rates of the powder used.
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Old 04-03-2011, 15:02   #8
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The 308 is no longer used by serious 1000 yard shooters these days.
I assume from your statement that you have never actually done any competition shooting at long range. There is a whole group of F-class called F-T/R which includes only 308 and 223 (military calibers ). It is what I shoot and what I trained my children to shoot. I have posted several videos of my children shooting in long range F-class with a Rem 40X in 308. The 6.5-284 competes in a class called "open" which is not head to head with the 308.

Do you actually know anything about bullets and the transonic zone and killing people?
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