Language advice needed

[jon448]

AL,
Do you have any more info about that survey because it seems like the vast majority of the areas where there were any answers seemed to be concentrated around major cities. I know that it was a voluntary survey so its tough to always get a good spread but within a big city the movement of people from different regions could have caused a contamination of the survey.

[Airbornelawyer]

Originally Posted by jon448

AL,
Do you have any more info about that survey because it seems like the vast majority of the areas where there were any answers seemed to be concentrated around major cities. I know that it was a voluntary survey so its tough to always get a good spread but within a big city the movement of people from different regions could have caused a contamination of the survey.

It was an on-line voluntary survey, so there are a number of potential biases: the urban bias you note, plus probably a socioeconomic bias because you'd need Internet access to participate. Against these are a couple of things: it was a large sample (some 16,000 participants), a fair number of public school students participated, correcting somewhat for the socioeconomic bias, and it was anonymous (people tend to "correct" their English to what they consider proper forms when being interviewed, muting real regional variations in their normal speech).

It does seem skewered toward certain regions. The New England states are overrepresented, as are several Mid-Atlantic and several upper Midwest states. Southern, lower Midwest and Western states are generally underrepresented.

In most cases these aren't big differences, though. Massachusetts, which is 2.2% of the US population, had 4.2% of responses. Michigan, 3.5% of the population, had 6.7% of responses. Among underrepresented states, California, 12.2% of the population, had 9.3% of responses and Texas, 7.6% of the population, had 4.7% of responses. Some were neither over nor under, including Virginia (2.5% pop, 2.6% responses) and Ohio (3.9% pop, 3.9% responses).

The urban-suburban-rural split, though, is not recorded. I suspect the need for internet access biased the survey toward cities and suburbs, but I also suspect a fair number of respondents were college students, many of whom were in large urban areas (Boston, NYC, Phillie, Chicago), but many of whom were not (College Station, Ann Arbor).

Also, the urban/rural split doesn't always affect language surveys the same way. Large urban areas can both mute and reinforce language differences. The strongest English dialects are found in urban areas such as Brooklyn, Boston, Phillie, Pittsburgh and New Orleans as well as rural areas such as Mississippi and the Ozarks.

The biggest effect of this is probably seen in the survey's results for the question: "What do you call the long sandwich that contains cold cuts, lettuce, and so on?" This is one of the more well-known language variances in American English, but is skewered by urban dialects. "Hero" is a New York City term, and "hoagie" a Philadelphia phenomenon. "Grinder" is a western New England term, while "sub," the Boston term, dominates eastern New England and has become the generic American term. The New Orleans' "po' boy" is a common variant in the Mississippi delta and along the Gulf coast.

[Airbornelawyer]

Oh, here is the list of questions. Each link leads to the maps for the answers to that question: http://cfprod01.imt.uwm.edu/Dept/FLL...lect/maps.html

Here is the list of states. Each link leads to the answers for each question for that state: http://cfprod01.imt.uwm.edu/Dept/FLL...ps/states.html

A result which showed some regional variance was Question 58, "Which of these terms do you prefer for a sale of unwanted items on your porch, in your yard, etc.?"

Overall, garage sale was the most common term (52.17%), with yard sale second (36.41%).

Garage sale was the main term in much of the Midwest - Iowa (71.7%), Illinois (70.3%), Kansas (83.4%), Michigan (64.4%), Minnesota (73.8%), Missouri (73.3%), Oklahoma (73.7%) - and West - California (63.6%), Colorado (70.5%), Oregon (66.7%), Washington (62.4%). It was also the main term in a couple of Southern states on the west side of the South, including Louisiana (74.8%) and Texas (79.4%)

Yard sale was the most common term in the South, for example Alabama (63.3%), Georgia (63.9%), Kentucky (74.0%), North Carolina (81.3%), Maryland (74.0%), South Carolina (67.6%), Virginia (75.0%) and West Virginia (72.5%). It was also, however, the most common term in New England, for example Massachusetts (67.6%), Maine (78.2%), New Hampshire (78.8%) and Rhode Island (73.5%).

Several states had no dominant term, including Florida (55.5% garage, 36.6% yard), New York (52.6% garage, 33.6% yard) and Arizona (49.7% yard, 41.4% garage)

There were two oddities though. In Wisconsin, 33.9% said rummage sale. In Connecticut, 68.9% said tag sale. In Massachusetts, tag sale reached 11.4%, but in no other state did rummage sale or tag sale get out of single digits.

[Airbornelawyer]

Another quirky one was question 74: "What do you call the little gray creature (that looks like an insect but is actually a crustacean) that rolls up into a ball when you touch it?"

Nationwide, and in most states, no single answer dominated.

In the South and parts of the Midwest, though, "roly-poly" was the clear winner. In the South, you have Alabama (87.7%), Florida (56.5%), Georgia (81.6%), Mississippi (88.7%), North Carolina (64.8%), South Carolina (78.1%), Tennessee (74.5%) and Virginia (55.3%). In the Midwest, you have Kansas (88.9%), Kentucky (53.5%), Michigan (47.4%), Missouri (79.4%) and Oklahoma (91.4%).

Potato bug was the term of choice in several Western states: Oregon (60.0%), Utah (75.9%) and Washington (56.3%).

In Louisiana and Texas, roly-poly competes with doodle bug. In California, roly-poly competes with pill bug. In Arizona and Maryland, potato bug competes with roly-poly. In Ohio and West Virginia, it is a three-way tie among potato bug, roly-poly and pill bug.

Apparently, these creatures don't like the cold. In the Northeast and other northern states, the most common answer was "I have no idea what this creature is." This was the case in Alaska, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Dakota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Vermont and Wisconsin.

[12B4S]

Having been born and raised in a 'burb north of Chicago, I mostly use "you guys" however after my first year in the Army, most of which was in the south, "y'all" crept in, and has remained. Yep, roly- poly.

That was exactly why I found I could speak another language better AL. Especially when you are learning and you are in thier country. Plus by eliminating some of the apprehension one might have of totaly destroying thier language, vocab and grammar came easier. It's in there, we just think to hard in an effort to get it right, that being before adult beverages of course.

[Bigblue]

Good evening,

It has been a while since I have done more than skim over the board's topics. I decided to post here instead of starting a new thread. I have been doing some research and questioning on my own for a while now and am going to be in a position where I will have to decide fairly soon so I decided to come here and get some advice. Given the option of Spanish or Portuguese (and no other) which would you take? As a reservist they only offer the courses around once or year and the possibility of having to wait a while is high. In the meantime I have civilian life as well as Army schools I need to think about. I last scored an 85 on the DLAB if that matters.
From the Spanish speakers I hear that it is more "useful" than Portuguese with more opportunity to practice,etc... From the Portuguese speakers I hear that it is "harder" to learn but that it would be of more use down the line due to not many Soldiers being able to speak it. Also I notice on Gov. employment sites (like DIA) they all seem to list Portuguese as a language they are seeking (in addition to the other skillsets) but not Spanish. Also, I will be attending FLETC in Glynco and required to take a 5 week Spanish course there. I don't believe that would lead to any fluency but I am thinking that maybe it would be best to continue along that path even if it meant waiting a while for the next Spanish class to come around at DLI.
I would appreciate more opinions to take into account.

THANKS

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by Bigblue

Good evening,

It has been a while since I have done more than skim over the board's topics. I decided to post here instead of starting a new thread. I have been doing some research and questioning on my own for a while now and am going to be in a position where I will have to decide fairly soon so I decided to come here and get some advice. Given the option of Spanish or Portuguese (and no other) which would you take? As a reservist they only offer the courses around once or year and the possibility of having to wait a while is high. In the meantime I have civilian life as well as Army schools I need to think about. I last scored an 85 on the DLAB if that matters.
From the Spanish speakers I hear that it is more "useful" than Portuguese with more opportunity to practice,etc... From the Portuguese speakers I hear that it is "harder" to learn but that it would be of more use down the line due to not many Soldiers being able to speak it. Also I notice on Gov. employment sites (like DIA) they all seem to list Portuguese as a language they are seeking (in addition to the other skillsets) but not Spanish. Also, I will be attending FLETC in Glynco and required to take a 5 week Spanish course there. I don't believe that would lead to any fluency but I am thinking that maybe it would be best to continue along that path even if it meant waiting a while for the next Spanish class to come around at DLI.
I would appreciate more opinions to take into account.

THANKS

Spanish vs Portuguese It is what it is..... People like DIA ask for Portuguese because there are a million Spanish speakers. You are limited to a small tgt group and will not have as many places to go to use it but when you are good and in the right job it can pay off.
FLETC ? Are you going to one of the Federal agencies academies/training? Depending on the agency will depend if you need to be fluent in Spanish. If you were going BP you have to speak Spanish but if you are ICE .... Hell they do not like to talk to anyone... (Another thread). I learned Spanish and travel to Brazil several times a year and I get along fine there. Lower pay for spanish but better locations and a lot of them.....
Just my 2cents....Hope it helps

[Bigblue]

I appreciate your 2 cents! Yes... I am going the Customs route (Miami) and that geo pref. requires the 5 week class then the normal 15 weeks. I "heard" that the Spanish immersion class enables you to say a lot of basic things (and understand when someone threatens you,etc...) but I dont see how 5 weeks can make someone Fluent. A friend of mine takes Portuguese college-level classes and is always complaining. Nobody around to practice with and those sorts of things. I am planning a trip down to Brazil for my 34th Birthday and see what happens, maybe I'll meet some people I can pick up a few things with then and get some practice. The next Portuguese class starts in July and isnt ending until Feb 09 the Spanish starts in September and ends in Apr 09. There is a chance I could get into the Spanish class that starts in June but it doesnt look promising from what I was told. I am hoping that whatever it winds up being it wont interfere with my EOD date with Customs.

[Psywar1-0]

I was already a 3/3 in Spanish(PRANG DLI) when I went to DLIMain for Portugese. I was able to breeze thru the course and got a 3/3/2 on the DLPT. My years of speaking Spanish is what caused me to not do so well on the Oral portion of the test.

My Instructor said the first day that Portugese was nothing more than a drunk Frenchman speaking Spanish

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by Psywar1-0

I was already a 3/3 in Spanish(PRANG DLI) when I went to DLIMain for Portugese. I was able to breeze thru the course and got a 3/3/2 on the DLPT. My years of speaking Spanish is what caused me to not do so well on the Oral portion of the test.

My Instructor said the first day that Portugese was nothing more than a drunk Frenchman speaking Spanish

I agree but I always thought it had a bit of drunken German also.....

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by Bigblue

I appreciate your 2 cents! Yes... I am going the Customs route (Miami) and that geo pref. requires the 5 week class then the normal 15 weeks. I "heard" that the Spanish immersion class enables you to say a lot of basic things (and understand when someone threatens you,etc...) but I dont see how 5 weeks can make someone Fluent. A friend of mine takes Portuguese college-level classes and is always complaining. Nobody around to practice with and those sorts of things. I am planning a trip down to Brazil for my 34th Birthday and see what happens, maybe I'll meet some people I can pick up a few things with then and get some practice. The next Portuguese class starts in July and isnt ending until Feb 09 the Spanish starts in September and ends in Apr 09. There is a chance I could get into the Spanish class that starts in June but it doesnt look promising from what I was told. I am hoping that whatever it winds up being it wont interfere with my EOD date with Customs.

Hell if you are in Miami you should get a lot of practice in Spanish. Immersion is the best way to really learn a language. You should get a lot of practice on the job as a CBP officer there. You are right 5 weeks is not enough and I laugh at some of the CBP how little they understand. Get into the marine ops and stay out of the airports there or you will go crazy. Do not expect high standards either when you get on the job. Most of them think of it as nothing more than a job. It is not going to be like the military. Good Luck.

[Defion69]

I grew up in Texas and did not learn Spanish here. I learned Spanish while in 7th Group and continued to hone my language skills while living in South America. I also live in Puerto Rico for 5 years and learned "Puerto Rican" (yes it is different). I recently returned to Texas and I would sum up the other language spoken to "Spanglish". Spanish (IMHO) has been butchered here in TX and there are words spoken and used that you will not find in the Spanish dictionary. So my point is: Learn proper Spanish and practice proper Spanish. Speaking with Mexicans may not be the best method for a new student given the English influence and the twists ingrained into "Mexican" Spanish (Puerto Rican as well). There are plenty of Spanish speaking channels on t.v. these days such as Telemundo and Univision and a good source to practice your listening skills.

I learned and studied French first and then Portuguese. Just like the other QPs already mentioned, they all mash together. I understand Portuguese fine but it gets interesting trying to converse and not throwing in too much Spanish or even French.

Ok I could go on but will stop so as not to bore too much with a lengthy thread

Good luck to ya'll learning a new language!

Take Care

[calstyleee]

i thought i would just ask in this thread instead of making a new one.

both my parents are Colombian, i speak fluent Spanish. would i go to 3rd group?

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by calstyleee

i thought i would just ask in this thread instead of making a new one.

both my parents are Colombian, i speak fluent Spanish. would i go to 3rd group?

From the looks of it you may need some remedial English grammar. Here is a hint, the first letter of the first word in a sentence should be capitalized. Remember you never have a second chance to make a first impression.

As for your question, language/Group assignment(s) have been discussed many times before and we arent going to rehash it for you. You will find most, if not all, your questions about SF have been asked before; use the search function.

SF is looking for men who are self-motivated, self sufficient, and self-starters.

Crip

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by calstyleee

i thought i would just ask in this thread instead of making a new one.

both my parents are Colombian, i speak fluent Spanish. would i go to 3rd group?

Let me guess.

You haven't read all of the stickies or used the Search button, right?

TR