Move to Eglin - Page 3

SF_BHT · 11-07-2008, 17:42

Delays in 7th Group move could be costly

By Henry Cuningham
Military editor Fayetteville Observer
Published on Friday, November 07, 2008

Costs are climbing and the deadline is less than three years away for the 7th Special Forces Group to move 650 miles from Fort Bragg to Florida.

The 2005 Base Closure and Realignment law says the 2,000-soldier group must relocate to Eglin Air Force Base on the Gulf Coast by Sept. 15, 2011.

Delays could cause problems for Special Forces families and Fort Bragg, which already has future plans for the 7th Group area.

“We are concerned about one aspect of the growth that may not be finished on time,” Lt. Gen. Robert Wagner said. “That does include some of the barracks projects, so we have to watch that project very closely.”

Wagner steps down today as commander of U.S. Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg.

About $382 million has been set aside for military construction for the 7th Group move, and about $113 million more is needed, Wagner said. It’s uncertain how the arrival of a new president and Congress will change spending priorities, especially for high-ticket Rumsfeld-era projects.

During the three years since the BRAC decision, the Defense Department has made plans to expand special operations units. That creates costs at Fort Bragg and Eglin. Wagner warned Congress in testimony in 2007 that not moving on time could “create a domino effect” at Fort Bragg, where plans are in place for other special operations battalions to move into the area vacated by the 7th Group.

Another budget-buster has been Hurricane Katrina. The BRAC proposals were announced in May 2005, based on earlier cost estimates. The hurricane drove up the cost of construction materials.

The costs are high in part because the move to Eglin entails building on a bare location. “There is not a road, a wire or a pipe,” Wagner said. “Every single thing will have to be built to support the compound.”

Eglin’s firing ranges were built with the needs of the Air Force in mind.

“There are no ranges at Eglin that are useful for Special Forces training,” Wagner said. “Everything has to be built.”

Building at Eglin has been delayed by mandatory federal environmental reviews. BRAC also directs that initial training to fly the F-35, the military’s new Joint Strike Fighter, be set up at Eglin, too. That has created concerns from nearby communities about noise.

“Because of all the time we’ve worked with the noise related to the Joint Strike Fighter, we’ve already consumed all of the ‘flex’ time in our schedule,” Wagner said. “So it’s a very, very tight schedule at this point.”

The concerns of planners are about more than on-base buildings. They worry about the families of soldiers.

A Special Forces group is weighted toward senior noncommissioned officers — many of whom have larger salaries and larger families than younger soldiers.

“About 62 percent of them own a house,” Wagner said. “About 51 percent of them have a wife with a meaningful career.”

Studies considered several possible locations for the 7th Group complex at Eglin, but the preferred site is on the northern part of the base near the town of Crestview, where houses are more affordable.

“It’s not as though they are looking for 1,800 square feet,” Wagner said. “They want a house with a two- or three-car garage because they’ve got a family that they want to take care of.”

The Army likes to move people in summer to minimize educational disruptions.

“From our standpoint, we want the construction to be terminated by May (2011) or earlier,” Wagner said. It will take several months to install furniture and communications equipment, he said.

“I will tell you that the local communities are very helpful and very accommodating,” Wagner said. “They understand potential timelines for the move and are looking at school issues and talking about education for the wives and jobs.”

The long-term Air Force presence at Eglin has created strong bonds with the military, he said. “We are not strangers to this. In fact, there is a very high number of senior people who have retired here. It’s a very nice area.”

The 7th Group specializes in Latin America, but lately has been swapping rotations to Afghanistan with the 3rd Group, also at Fort Bragg.

Maj. Gen. Thomas Csrnko, the commander of U.S. Army Special Forces Command, has said he does not want the group to have to operate from two locations.

Wagner says it’s important to get the move right to take care of Special Forces veterans and their families, of whom so much has been asked in recent years.

“We can always get new people, but we have to maintain the senior people,” he said. “Seven years into the war, with the guys having gone and deployed many, many times, we have to maintain the senior-grade population. We have no indications we are not, but nevertheless, we can’t wait to see a trend and get concerned about it.”

BMT (RIP) · 11-23-2008, 12:23

http://trustplatinum.blogspot.com/20...-on-their.html

BMT

Basenshukai · 11-23-2008, 18:39

What's amazing is the cost of housing relative to the Fort Bragg area. While in the area I looked up several homes that were being sold at about the price I bought mine in Fort Bragg. Brother, compared to those places - at that price - my home is a mansion. For me to move my family down there would truly be a straight forward sacrifice for the sake of the unit, and not a positive thing for my family. Being that I have several choices in the matter, I'm not sure which way I'll go on this one yet. But, my honest opinion, this move was about the most boneheaded decisions of 2005.

SF_BHT · 11-29-2008, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basenshukai

What's amazing is the cost of housing relative to the Fort Bragg area. While in the area I looked up several homes that were being sold at about the price I bought mine in Fort Bragg. Brother, compared to those places - at that price - my home is a mansion. For me to move my family down there would truly be a straight forward sacrifice for the sake of the unit, and not a positive thing for my family. Being that I have several choices in the matter, I'm not sure which way I'll go on this one yet. But, my honest opinion, this move was about the most boneheaded decisions of 2005.

I do not think that this will happen on any timeline that is out there as of today. They are really behind on the building schedule and base support requirements. In the big picture I would not mind the new facilities but from the family standpoint it is not going to be a easy move. The housing market is High compared to Bragg but it is not as bad as in Colorado and other places.
Just think of the local use of AFSOC A/C that will be available...... Only time will tell...

JJ_BPK · 11-29-2008, 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basenshukai

What's amazing is the cost of housing relative to the Fort Bragg area.

I'll not argue housing costs,, Florida is a retirement mecca,, those FOGs want room for the g-kids,, sunshine,, no-taxes,, no snow..

BUT,, in the panhandle we're talking rural, and country.. Prices should be at least on par with Bragg..

If you see yourself heading this way, here are a couple web sites tools that may help. They take a little getting use to because the options are not obvious.

Zillow - Use street address,, zip code,, or city and it will bring up everything that is listed. Almost to much info,, but it's free. It uses sale data from county tax office(s) and listing prices from MLS. and is linked to geo-sat maps. You can look at your new neighbor's yard.. A lot of times I found the listing agents will try to blind the buyer to neighborhood blight.. It also has prior sales dates and prices for some/most properties. Very handy to check to see if a place has been flipped..

www.zillow.com/homes/map/crestview-florida_rb/

CirclePix, free to use, but the realtor has to pay to get a house listed,, so it tends to be upscale. Still worth using as it tell you what the market thing about large.. ALso in metro areas like Northern VA, it lists just about everything..

www.circlepix.com/search.htm

We were going to move to N Va to be near our g-kids, I spent some time using these tools and on three trips I stored a bunch of address into my Tom-Tom and hit the street.

It was so much easer,, the routing took all the guessing out of the hunt.

AND NO REALTORS,, that alone is worth a couple 6-packs...

Good Luck to all in the 7th that make the move.. I think you'll like the area..

Tyrant · 03-27-2009, 14:55

Update:
http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=322204

dirt_diver · 03-27-2009, 19:37

I currently live in Navarre, FL and work with AFSOC and the area is very nice. The best places to live IOT be close by Duke would be Crestview or Niceville. Both locations are not badly priced. Shalimar is a good location, but there is a lot more traffic and prices are higher. If anyone has questions about the area, feel free to message me and I will try to provide an answer.

18D4VRWB · 03-29-2009, 10:22

Free insight.

http://news.soc.mil/releases/News%20...090327-01.html

Richard · 07-09-2009, 11:02

Guess Eglin is ready for the move.

http://www.eglin.af.mil/7specialforcesgroup.asp

Area brief for you 7th families.

http://www.eglin.af.mil/shared/media...090420-017.pdf

Richard's $.02

11B2V · 07-09-2009, 13:27

Just wondering out loud...will 20thSFG be able to benefit from the new facilities in the Florida area and vice versa? I mean with reference to joint training, ranges, and what not... I'm thinking having an active duty group in the AO would be a force multiplier in and of itself! If this can't really be discussed for some reason, just ignore me and I will just continue wondering

exsquid · 07-09-2009, 15:25

Ah my young naive friend. The NG is all about state politics and personal rice bowls. Plus, to the AD guys we are all "just Guard guys." Red headed step children are treated better.

x/S

SF_BHT · 07-09-2009, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by exsquid

Ah my young naive friend. The NG is all about state politics and personal rice bowls. Plus, to the AD guys we are all "just Guard guys." Red headed step children are treated better.

x/S

Are we having a sensative day today?

When it is at the Company and Team level it is all about personalities.

It could be a good in and some but heads could burn the bridges......
The whole time I was on AD we always worked with the Reserve and NG teams where we were training and helped each other out but I also was dumped on a few times by the Guard due to State Politics..... It will all depend on how the first contact goes......and who makes it.

Shoot, had some SF Guard guys down in my AO and they hardly ever said Hi.....

Just my 2 cents.....

**The Reaper** · 07-09-2009, 17:02

I don't see the 7th having much to share at Eglin that the Guard did not have access to before.

11B2V, what difference does it make to you?

TR

11B2V · 07-09-2009, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I don't see the 7th having much to share at Eglin that the Guard did not have access to before.

11B2V, what difference does it make to you?

TR

Not being affiliated with Special Forces in any way, the move has as much impact on me, as I have on it. None whatsoever!

However, I live in Florida, I want to be a "guard guy" as previously stated, and I have also heard of the NG sometimes being treated as the underdog. So, being graciously afforded the opportunity to be privy to input from 7th and 20th group members simultaneously on this forum, well flatly put I was simply wondering if this move was something for the NG guys to be looking forward to, or if in all actuality it had zero bearing on the NG AO.

If I was not deployed, I would be posing the same questions to the QP's attached to my unit. I knew before I posted this that it was not a question of IF, but rather WHICH Quiet Professional would ask me that question.

You did not disappoint. I hope that is a satisfactory answer sir.

Edit - BTW, thanks to all three of you for your reply. Each one told me all I needed from different perspectives. I

bailaviborita · 07-10-2009, 07:55

- What are they going to do with guys that have less than a year left at Group prior to moving...?

- Are some guys close to retiring/wives have good jobs going to transfer to 3rd/SF CMD and/or stay as a "rear" unit until they are out?

- How are guys in 7th now handling their houses (selling or maybe renting out- since the market is a little low)?

- Is there going to be a GB club at the new place?