08-24-2004, 17:35
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#1
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,767
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Two Jets Disappear in Russia
Just got this "breaking news" e-mail from CNN:
Two passenger jets flying over Russia disappeared from radar within minutes of each other late Tuesday. One was confirmed to have crashed, the second is still missing. Log on to CNN.com for more on this developing story.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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08-24-2004, 17:36
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#2
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Quiet Professional
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Re: Two Jets Disappear in Russia
Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Just got this "breaking news" e-mail from CNN:
Two passenger jets flying over Russia disappeared from radar within minutes of each other late Tuesday. One was confirmed to have crashed, the second is still missing. Log on to CNN.com for more on this developing story.
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Saw it on Fox.
IMHO, almost certainly Chechens who did it.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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08-24-2004, 17:37
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#3
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Consigliere
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...ash/index.html
Russia: One jet down, one missing
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 Posted: 7:28 PM EDT (2328 GMT)
(CNN) -- Two planes have disappeared from radar nearly simultaneously in separate incidents in Russia Tuesday night, and one was confirmed to have crashed, the Russian Emergency Ministry said.
A passenger jet carrying 34 passengers and eight crew members in the Tula region crashed about 160 kilometers (100 miles) south of Moscow, the ministry said.
Witnesses reported seeing the plane explode before it crashed, the Russian news agency Interfax reported.
A ministry spokeswoman said the wreckage was located ablaze and that no one survived.
Government-run news agency Ria Novosti reported that the plane's wreckage was in two separate locations.
The second plane, carrying 44 passengers and eight crew members, apparently went down about 160 kilometers (100 miles) from Rostov-on-Don, in southern Russia, Ria Novosti reported.
The spokeswoman said she could confirm only that the second plane had been lost to radar.
Ria Novosti said Russian President Vladimir Putin had been notified of the situation and had ordered security services to launch an immediate investigation.
The first plane disappeared from radar at 10:56 p.m. (2:56 p.m. ET), the news agency said.
The Tupolev-134 had taken off from Moscow's Domodedovo Airport and was en route to Volgograd, in southern Russia.
The spokeswoman said the wreckage was located ablaze and that no one survived.
The second plane, a Tupolev-154, disappeared from radar at 10:59 p.m. (2:59 p.m. ET) after having taken off from the same airport en route to Sochi, a tourist resort on the Black Sea in southern Russia, the ministry spokeswoman reported.
The Tupolev-154 is a standard medium-range airliner on domestic flights in Russia, according to aviation websites.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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08-24-2004, 17:41
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#4
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Quiet Professional
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Second appears down in Rostov.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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08-24-2004, 17:43
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#5
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Hornet Nest Poker
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 272
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Scale of 1 - 10, how do the Chechens compare to AQ?
It seems as if they pull of smaller operations, but with much greater frequency and with consistency in their "success" in furthering terror.
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Pandora is offline
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08-24-2004, 17:52
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#6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Scale of 1 - 10, how do the Chechens compare to AQ?
It seems as if they pull of smaller operations, but with much greater frequency and with consistency in their "success" in furthering terror.
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I suspect that AQ may have Chechen members. There are rumored to be Chechens in Iraq now.
By and large, they are much better trained and experienced in combat operations. They have also struck with WMD (radiological), mass casualties (Moscow theater), etc. in the heart of Russia itself.
If I were Russian, I would be more concerned with the Chechens than AQ.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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08-24-2004, 18:04
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#7
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Hornet Nest Poker
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Thank you, TR.
I recall the Moscow Theatre attack very vividly.
Next questions - what will Putin's most effective reaction be? Anything significant going on with elections there in the near future?
Tass is also reporting that a bus exploded in Moscow Tuesday.
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Pandora is offline
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08-24-2004, 21:31
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#8
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Hornet Nest Poker
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Sorry... did I kill the thread with curiousity?
If so, I offer my apologies, I just don't understand how these things can continue to happen anywhere, on any flight, in any region after 9-11?
Not sure if I lack common-sense or simply expect too much of those in positions who should be securing every flight regardless of delays, costs, vetting references, scanning baggage. What am I missing in the picture? How do the likes of AQ and the Chechens continue to pull these operations off?
AQ, Chechens, Al Sadr - all the same to me... evil and with no regard for human lives - often including their own.
(rhetorical frustration questions... just venting - what the heck is next?)
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Pandora is offline
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08-25-2004, 07:33
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Thank you, TR.
I recall the Moscow Theatre attack very vividly.
Next questions - what will Putin's most effective reaction be? Anything significant going on with elections there in the near future?
Tass is also reporting that a bus exploded in Moscow Tuesday.
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A bus caught fire in Moscow on Tuesday people sleeping in it at a road side pulloff, there was a small explosion at a bus stop in Moscow this morning (same day as aircraft crashes).
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lurch is offline
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08-25-2004, 07:38
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#10
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Quiet Professional
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Just talked to the Press attache here at the Embassy in Moscow, latest thought on the aircraft crashes: Bad Fuel, fits some of the facts; IE two aircraft departing from the same airport within 40 minutes. Air travel is much safer here now than say 10 years ago when the expats refered to the Russian flag carrier as "AeroFLOP"
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lurch is offline
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08-25-2004, 07:56
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
I suspect that AQ may have Chechen members. There are rumored to be Chechens in Iraq now.
By and large, they are much better trained and experienced in combat operations. They have also struck with WMD (radiological), mass casualties (Moscow theater), etc. in the heart of Russia itself.
If I were Russian, I would be more concerned with the Chechens than AQ.
TR
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They are very concerned with the Chechens. Police here (Moscow) daily conduct document checks in and around the metro and train stations and on the streets. From my view 90% percent of those stopped are Caucasians ( not our interpretation of the word) those from the Caucasus Mountains ie Chechnya and southern regions who have a distinct appearance, darker skin tone.
I'm sure that AQ and Chechnyans have a certain cross over but of necessity the Chechnyans are more focused in their attacks ::Russian targets.
BTW the Chechnyan terrorist/separatist leader who claimed responsibility for the assassination of the last Chechnyan president has publicly stated that he will kill the next president as well.
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lurch is offline
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