MACV-SOG Roll Call - Page 10

f50lrrp · 11-10-2011, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by incommin

Recondo (Recon Team Leader Course) Sept 1968. Was the 1-1 and then the 1-0 on RT Nail, CCS. RTLC was the only military training course I attended where students were sometimes lost to enemy action while in training.

Funny thing. I felt safer on operations they I did in our compound. And I have always felt that the SF guys stuck out in little camps and pushing CIDG or a Mike company had it much worse than I did!

Jim

I graduated from Recondo School in February '68. Then I was assigned to the Third Mobile Strike Force Ccommand (B-36) as a Team Leader (1-0)!

Mike

JYD73 · 02-24-2012, 17:29

Gentlemen of the SOAs, 5th SFG(Abn), 1st SF, I am working on a case of a downgraded Medal of Honor nomination and I have noticed a couple of other very similar cases in doing research. These are cases that involve downgraded Medal of Honors to Distinguished Service Crosses.

I know that there are cases of Medals of Honors downgraded to Silver Stars, but because of the lack of record keeping on Silver Stars, I have not been able to track many of these.

My particular interest has evolved from one case of a downgraded Medal of Honor nomination of a friend of mine, to what appears to be a pattern of downgraded medals for SOA warriors. I believe this can be attributed to the classification of missions, the misunderstanding of SOG operations in the Vietnam conflict by the Regular Army with the odds that you stood against, and the political climate at the time most especially 1970 forward.

Do any of you SOA warriors know if Sgt. James N. Pruitt and SSgt. Gary Michael Rose are still living, and are you in contact with them?

I am hoping to get Congressional support for an insertion of legislation similar to that in the 1996 National Defense Authorization Act, inserted into the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act. If not 2013, then I will keep trying. When this can be achieved, it could be beneficial to them and other SOA warriors of the Vietnam era.

I would greatly appreciate any assistance that members of the MACSOG(MACV-SOG) SOAs may be able to provide. And thank you for your incredible service above and beyond what most people realize.

tom kelly · 02-24-2012, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYD73

Gentlemen of the SOAs, 5th SFG(Abn), 1st SF, I am working on a case of a downgraded Medal of Honor nomination and I have noticed a couple of other very similar cases in doing research. These are cases that involve downgraded Medal of Honors to Distinguished Service Crosses.

I know that there are cases of Medals of Honors downgraded to Silver Stars, but because of the lack of record keeping on Silver Stars, I have not been able to track many of these.

My particular interest has evolved from one case of a downgraded Medal of Honor nomination of a friend of mine, to what appears to be a pattern of downgraded medals for SOA warriors. I believe this can be attributed to the classification of missions, the misunderstanding of SOG operations in the Vietnam conflict by the Regular Army with the odds that you stood against, and the political climate at the time most especially 1970 forward.

Do any of you SOA warriors know if Sgt. James N. Pruitt and SSgt. Gary Michael Rose are still living, and are you in contact with them?

I am hoping to get Congressional support for an insertion of legislation similar to that in the 1996 National Defense Authorization Act, inserted into the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act. If not 2013, then I will keep trying. When this can be achieved, it could be beneficial to them and other SOA warriors of the Vietnam era.

I would greatly appreciate any assistance that members of the MACSOG(MACV-SOG) SOAs may be able to provide. And thank you for your incredible service above and beyond what most people realize.

According to Stephen Sherman' list of "Who WAS Who" from Special Forces, SOG, SFA, SOA, S/Sgt. James M. Pruitt of Winston-Salem,NC 27127-9083 was born 5/14/1945 DIED 1/04/2007..
I do not know S/Sgt. Gary Michael Rose and have no info on him. your best contact would be Steve Sherman XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Good Luck, Tom Kelly

JYD73 · 02-25-2012, 14:45

I’m very sorry to hear about Sgt. James Pruitt, thank you for letting me know. SSgt. Gary M. Rose was a Medic with SOA(CCC) in and around 1970. Below are links to their DSC citations:

SSgt. Gary M. Rose
http://militarytimes.com/citations-m...cipientid=4565

Sgt. James N. Pruitt
http://militarytimes.com/citations-medals-awards/recipient.php?recipientid=5520

Richard · 02-25-2012, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYD73

Do any of you SOA warriors know if Sgt. James N. Pruitt and SSgt. Gary Michael Rose are still living, and are you in contact with them?

Contact the Special Operations Association - a simple web search will help.

Richard

JYD73 · 02-25-2012, 15:03

Has anyone had any luck with the National Archives in researching MACSOG and the SOA missions? I have been searching for actual mission briefs and AARs for a particular mission. I had been told that these were mixed in with 5th Group Vietnam records, no luck so far. I’ve been told by others that those details are not there, but in different places if they still exist.

I did find this information on-line, approximately 2,000 pages of declassified material from the Vietnam Conflict. It is on the Department of Defense website. About half way down the list are a number of SOG documents.

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/Internat...asiaDocuments/

I should also mention that the JFK Special Warfare Museum at Bragg is currently finishing a MACV-SOG exhibit. I saw it in the beginning stages, it is definitely worth going to see.

JYD73 · 02-25-2012, 17:13

Thanks Richard, I have some contacts there, will do.

alright4u · 02-26-2012, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYD73

Has anyone had any luck with the National Archives in researching MACSOG and the SOA missions? I have been searching for actual mission briefs and AARs for a particular mission. I had been told that these were mixed in with 5th Group Vietnam records, no luck so far. I’ve been told by others that those details are not there, but in different places if they still exist.

I did find this information on-line, approximately 2,000 pages of declassified material from the Vietnam Conflict. It is on the Department of Defense website. About half way down the list are a number of SOG documents.

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/Internat...asiaDocuments/

I should also mention that the JFK Special Warfare Museum at Bragg is currently finishing a MACV-SOG exhibit. I saw it in the beginning stages, it is definitely worth going to see.

I can only state that all Omega and CCS cross border OPS AAR's were destroyed. In fact, the first CCS CO was stationed in the Pentagon from June 69-72 or so. He went to look up something for a friend. He was shocked that all our AAR's were missing.

oifcmb24 · 03-11-2012, 23:51

Just wanted to tell all of you thank you for all that you did. If any of you are ever in Colorado Springs, hit me up. I would love to have a beer with you in honor of all those who never returned.

BMT (RIP) · 03-16-2012, 04:32

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/jfq_pubs/1823.pdf

BMT

JYD73 · 03-21-2012, 21:41

Thanks BMT for the links, both here and on the other post. Some I had found, and some I had not. I have been pouring over them. The paper http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/jfq_pubs/1823.pdf by Richard H Shultz, Jr. particularly outlines the roots of the misunderstanding of SOG by the Chain of Command and the frustrations the warriors of SOG must have experienced in dealing with them. Myself and others feel this misunderstanding of SOG was one reason so many medals and awards were downgraded, the conventional elements of the military simply had no idea who you were and what you were doing.

One thing I had to do for the effort I am working on is confirm what I’ve been told about the original AARs of SOG, to a level at which it could be specifically cited. Sadly, I can now cite the original AARs are gone. Any references to actual missions are going to be in the SOG Command Histories and MACSOG weekly reports to CINCPAC. The first are only declassed in parts and the latter have not been seen since the war. Both would only have summaries, and lack most detail. I do now know, that what I am looking for is in Annex B of the 1970 MACSOG Command History, and of course it is in the pages that have not been declassed. But it would only be a summary.

The mission I am researching was one of approximately 200 platoon sized Prairie Fire Exploitation Force missions conducted during the war, resulting in contact with what is reported to be elements of the 66th NVA Regiment(unconfirmed), an Arc-light of the area, and follow-up BDA by RT Washington. RT Washington was also hit hard on the BDA that followed (with the loss of Sgt. George Curtis Green).

Using the information gained I have been able to locate the area of action of the Exploitation Force action to within a 15 square km area (around grid 48PYB6449). The Army wants maps and diagrams so I was able to provide a map of the area and make diagrams from original witness statements. I’m also working with interpreting some of the DoD Regs and US Code that would concern this effort, but that is another matter.

So thank you again, and I am listening to anything you all can tell me. I am particularly interested in any information of the early December 2-5? 1970 mission of RT Washington and what they found on the BDA. I would very much like to confirm what the exploitation force had encountered just before RT Washington.

Cool Breeze · 05-22-2012, 14:38

Moved out to the midwest in January and joined the ski patrol at a local hill. On my first day, I was asked about my background and mentioned being in SF. I then was introduced to a fellow patroller whose Dad was MACV-SOG in Vietnam. My buddy's Dad and his Mom met in Vietnam and Ken Bute brought his wife, daughter, and son back to the US. Unfortunately, I did not have a chance to meet Ken (he passed away last year). I did find his pic online from "back in the day" and spoke with someone who went through SFQC with him.
Small world.

bushmaster11 · 07-17-2012, 12:53

Last visit to Bragg was for the PUC ceremony Apr 2001 just prior to GWOT. Good to see faces from the past. Current crop of SF operators seemed bigger, faster, and maybe smarter than we were. But at that time 9/11 had not created the fast pace optempo wear and tear that exists today. The current crop are as good if not better than we were. We are all in the same gene pool, there should not be a sense of superiority.

De Oppresso Liber

rwt_bkk · 07-18-2012, 08:10

At this point in life, seems like everyone is bigger, faster and smarter that I am

lovemycountry · 11-21-2012, 20:54

All,

This has been some of the best 45 minutes of reading I have ever had. I have been so grateful to SF for along time but to read this thread, in its entirety, is chilling. I'm glad I found this thread as I have read many. Our country owes so much to all of you. I have read many books on 1966 to 1969 (Meyer, Donahue, Nicholson,Miller, Rottman) and will know turn my reading to Plasters SOG, Secret Commandos and Stolen Valor. ( any suggestions on the sequence ?)

Thanks to Ambush Master for some guidance that I needed to date.