FBI Corruption Treason Conspiracy , someone better be going to prison

[lindy]

Originally Posted by Badger52

Glenn Simpson's (FusionGPS) testimony indicated that initially when they got into developing opposition research - not their normal gig, that being financial stuff - they had also been commissioned by the conservative side (think GOP establishment/anti-Trump National Review) to get stuff on Cruz, for one. My thought is that, to either side, anyone considered "renegade" was a threat. That came before the law firm/DNC/Klinton link effort. So there is more than one rip-tide underneath this shoreline; you can probably extrapolate why "OMG in the name of national security patriots" like Graham & McStain might not want the DoJ/FBI rabbit hole ventured into any deeper.

I believe that is correct and really don’t have problems with that (oppo research) but I doubt the initial research included anything from Russian sources. Makes sense that Fusion would look at candidates finances. I think the DOJ and IC crossed the line when they used the golden shower crap as a basis for telling a court that at least one American should lose their 4th Amendment protection and then proliferate it throughout the USG as if it were “intel”.

I’m sure the dossier was intentionally written like a HUMINT report in order to give it the appearance of credibility as if it were a leaked/stolen document.

[Joker]

Originally Posted by lindy

I believe that is correct and really don’t have problems with that (oppo research) but I doubt the initial research included anything from Russian sources. Makes sense that Fusion would look at candidates finances. I think the DOJ and IC crossed the line when they used the golden shower crap as a basis for telling a court that at least one American should lose their 4th Amendment protection and then proliferate it throughout the USG as if it were “intel”.

I’m sure the dossier was intentionally written like a HUMINT report in order to give it the appearance of credibility as if it were a leaked/stolen document.

Oh really? So when does "oppo research" turn into spying on American citizens by Americans for you? Thin slippery line there.

I have great issues with it.

[Box]

meh

no one is going to prison
at least not a democrat that works for the gubmint

we'll go to jail for gambling on the super bowl before ANY of these hacks see bars closed on them
...and if the hammer SHOULD fall, it will fall on an aide that has been given the honor to serve


prison is for the poor

[Surf n Turf]

Originally Posted by lindy

I read the CTH article but didn't understand the point. The author clearly doesn't understand FISA and the various sections.

702 isn't used against USPs and an application isn't submitted for info already in databases (e.g. incidental collection). Read page 8 here:

If the FBI has reasonable suspicion that an American is conducting espionage, they go through the regular Federal courts to obtain warrants and not FISC because evidence obtained via regular warrants isn't classified whereas FISA info is and therefore not subject to release.

Evidence submitted in major espionage cases like Ames, Hanson, etc appear to rely on typical criminal surveillance.

Originally Posted by lindy

I believe that is correct and really don’t have problems with that (oppo research) but I doubt the initial research included anything from Russian sources. Makes sense that Fusion would look at candidates finances. I think the DOJ and IC crossed the line when they used the golden shower crap as a basis for telling a court that at least one American should lose their 4th Amendment protection and then proliferate it throughout the USG as if it were “intel”.

I’m sure the dossier was intentionally written like a HUMINT report in order to give it the appearance of credibility as if it were a leaked/stolen document.

Lindy,

You cannot conduct "typical criminal surveillance" on a Presidential candidate / President-elect / President.

I think that you are making the point that the CTH was trying to make.......if you have a case of "reasonable suspicion" of an American conducting espionage you go the federal courts.... but if your purpose is more nefarious (say surveillance of an opposition candidate and / or operation) then the use of a Title I (FISA)warrant has extraordinary appeal (assuming you can get it signed off by a FISC Judge): It is has a very small audience. If Hillary had been elected it would never have seen the light of day......

The downside now is obvious..... You don't want to make a fool of a Federal Judge, who has FISC responsibilities..... He could bury you under the jailhouse..... I don't think these eastern elites are yet prepared for the hammer of hell that will rain down on them.

I also have a problem when oppo research is conducted under the guise of a National Security Investigation, complete with cast of characters, including Special Counsel.

SnT

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Joker

Oh really? So when does "oppo research" turn into spying on American citizens by Americans for you? Thin slippery line there.

I have great issues with it.

Essentially, we had a rogue agency using unverified, possibly bogus intel to get approval for a drone strike on a group of people...and they got the green light.

[Box]

Originally Posted by Paslode

Essentially, we had a rogue agency using unverified, possibly bogus intel to get approval for a drone strike on a group of people...and they got the green light.

The US has been exploding people based on "possibly bogus intel" for as long as we have had the capability to explode people.
...besides, exploding people can be a lot of fun.

[JimP]

No matter how you slice it - it was a flat-out Coup attempt.

Heads need to roll but Box is right.....ain't nothing going to happen. We're too far gone.

[abc_123]

Hillary Clinton was not elected. Obama is not president and won't be again, unless the rules get changed.

What difference, at this point, does it make?

I think we all need to go shopping.

[bblhead672]

Originally Posted by abc_123

I think we all need to go shopping.

I agree. I need to replenish 9mm after training class on Saturday expended 600 rounds. Can always use another can or two of 5.56!

[lindy]

Originally Posted by Joker

Oh really? So when does "oppo research" turn into spying on American citizens by Americans for you? Thin slippery line there.

I have great issues with it.

I understand opposition research to be information within the public domain and the focus of people who use investigative techniques like Woodward and Bernstein or even Schweizer's "Clinton Cash".

Intelligence collection should be conducted in secret and using covert and/or clandestine tradecraft which should never see the light of day.

Oppo research and intelligence are (ok, should be) exclusive of each other and I cannot think of a reason why they would be commingled. Sure intel uses OSINT to get FACTS whereas the dossier is complete and utter crap, devoid of any facts...save for the part where Page traveled to Moscow (I've read that is the only thing the USG was able to verify)...and was really hearsay because the sources were not even Steele's sources but 2nd, 3rd, etc.

SnT, I too agree with you that no matter how this is sliced, there absolutely cannot be an above board legitimate reason to conduct a criminal investigation of a political candidate without evidence of a crime (mishandling classified info is a crime whereas "collusion", whatever that means, is not) and, in the United States there CANNOT ever be a reason to conduct intelligence collection on a political candidate.

My point is about the CTH article is that FISA is not used for criminal proceedings and is used for intel collection.