Language training

[JagerHelix]

I don't post very often here, but I am curious what others think on the language training and maybe some insight or ideas.

I am specifically talking about Arabic because that's what I'm going through at the moment. We are using the SOLT program as our guideline for the course yet we are being tested with DLPT V. Don't mistake this for a wine, I expect it to be tough. But we are being tested on the same standards as the DLI students that spend twelve more months at school then we do. I understand the Army needs a Task, Condition, and Standard. But If we are using SOLT, we need to take a test that reflects what we are learning. Even cadre here have stated that SOLT will not help you pass the DLPT. You need to be on those newspapers on your own time. So we are stuck between trying our best to learn the language material we are given. And studying to pass the DLPT so we can continue on our way. Six months just doesn't seem like enough time to get this language down right.

Thanks. Bryan

[SF_BHT]

You are doing nothing that none of us has had to do. Back to learning.....

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by SF718

Like BHT mentions, join the club.
Im not going to complain here about the difficulty i personally faced while going through language training. What i will say is that what you are saying, sounds exactly the same as was being said when i went through.... The cool part about that is that its good to hear that the challenge of it is still there.
Here's some advice for whatever it is worth from me. I truly immersed myself in the training and compartmentalized everything else (tactics, weapons etc). I went outside of the curriculum and purchased material that was offline from what SOLT was teaching so that i had different resources to borrow from, and i think that's part of the secret to the whole thing. Listening to material at night, even if your mind isn't fully active helps, in my opinion. I think the last month before the DLPT is when i started drinking more coffee and really putting my head to the grind and became more of an active listener. Blah Blah, Im trying not to talk about what "techniques" i used (my apologies).
overall best thing i can tell you is to find vocabulary charts that are outside of SOLT. Look at Political, Society, Religion. Pick up a newspaper (in english) and begin to translate it back and forth, That will give you a very large pool of words and nuances to analyze.
Another word about language. Alot of us kinda rolled our eyes at doing it Being Q course students within a void of not foreseeing its true importance down the road. Alot of us just wanted to pass. What a mistake. What I Can tell you from experience is that the better you demonstrate the capacity and motivation to absorb it all, the more of an asset you will become... you will really become a huge asset. I cant harp on it enough. You will be able to serve the detachment in so many ways. Communicating with the host nation (HN) in any capacity, Be it a JCET, FID buys you so much in terms of respect from the HN. Showing them that you took the time to understand there language goes a very, very long way and will further your teams objectives, whatever they may be. Another interesting scenario is when you have a HN translator and something about hows hes conveying the information your telling him doesn't seem to "jive", think about the edge you may have there.
I know I digressed from you original question But I'm hoping this quick reply serves as somewhat of a motivator.
O by the way, There are individuals who walk away from here with 2/2 or better from 6 months of training. Its doable. How bad do you want to be the best.

good luck

Very well said.

We are not the Regular Army. All other MOS just have to do the course and they get their diploma and move on to the unit of assignment. We are Quiet Professionals with emphasis on Professional when it comes to the job. We go the extra mile's to be the best. A school is just a base line and if you wish to be the best at your job you have to put in 300% above the 100% that the school requires. Sacrifices are needed if you wish to be the best. Good luck in language school and in the program and your possible future career. Get back to studying.....

[Richard]

IMO--the only way to 'learn' a language is to go and 'live' it...total immersion within the target language dominant country where everything you do and encounter uses the language you are learning.

The attached pic is the alternative.

Richard's $.02

[Scimitar]

I know it’s a bit off topic but…using resources outside the classroom was mentioned…if it’s any help these are some I am using…


ARABIC VIDEOS WITH SUBTITLES
An Arabic News Video Clip Website. It is run out of DC with the goal of improving relations with the west.

It's mostly political clips from ME news stations but has English subtitles!

I cover up the subtitles, listen to a paragraph and try to decipher as much as I can. Then look at the subtitles and see how well I did.

I like it because it is generally discussing ideas. Getting to the ‘Ideas’ level is highly valuable for rapport building with indigs; and it is real Arabic speakers talking to you at speeds that you will experience in the ME. Also it's whole real sentances and paragraphs.

COST = FREE

http://www.memritv.org
NOTE: just ignore any requests for passwords


AUTOMATED ONLINE MEMORIZATION PROGRAM
This is a great website I use for memorization. It uses the "Leitner" memory system and is full automated. I have undertaken large amounts of memorization before with A&P at vasity. This IMHO makes it a hell of a lot easier and a hell of a lot more sustainable.

There are other excellent features as well.

WEBSITE
http://www.flashcardexchange.com/

BRIEF ON LEITNER SYSTEM
http://www.flashcardexchange.com/docs/leitner

COST = $20


1500 ARABIC WORDS AUDIO DATABASE
Lastly I am using the Declan System. You get the audio and written of 1500 commonly used MSA words. I imagine the 6 month program has something similar, but hey maybe it will help?

COST = $36

http://www.declan-software.com/arabic/index.htm

Hope this helped someone…

I have some Arabic Childrens TV websites somewhere with subtitles as well. Great for the beginner user as well as some Pop TV stuff also with subtitles better for the intermediate learner.

S

[JagerHelix]

Originally Posted by SF718

Like BHT mentions, join the club.
Im not going to complain here about the difficulty i personally faced while going through language training. What i will say is that what you are saying, sounds exactly the same as was being said when i went through.... The cool part about that is that its good to hear that the challenge of it is still there.
Here's some advice for whatever it is worth from me. I truly immersed myself in the training and compartmentalized everything else (tactics, weapons etc). I went outside of the curriculum and purchased material that was offline from what SOLT was teaching so that i had different resources to borrow from, and i think that's part of the secret to the whole thing. Listening to material at night, even if your mind isn't fully active helps, in my opinion. I think the last month before the DLPT is when i started drinking more coffee and really putting my head to the grind and became more of an active listener. Blah Blah, Im trying not to talk about what "techniques" i used (my apologies).
overall best thing i can tell you is to find vocabulary charts that are outside of SOLT. Look at Political, Society, Religion. Pick up a newspaper (in english) and begin to translate it back and forth, That will give you a very large pool of words and nuances to analyze.
Another word about language. Alot of us kinda rolled our eyes at doing it Being Q course students within a void of not foreseeing its true importance down the road. Alot of us just wanted to pass. What a mistake. What I Can tell you from experience is that the better you demonstrate the capacity and motivation to absorb it all, the more of an asset you will become... you will really become a huge asset. I cant harp on it enough. You will be able to serve the detachment in so many ways. Communicating with the host nation (HN) in any capacity, Be it a JCET, FID buys you so much in terms of respect from the HN. Showing them that you took the time to understand there language goes a very, very long way and will further your teams objectives, whatever they may be. Another interesting scenario is when you have a HN translator and something about hows hes conveying the information your telling him doesn't seem to "jive", think about the edge you may have there.
I know I digressed from you original question But I'm hoping this quick reply serves as somewhat of a motivator.
O by the way, There are individuals who walk away from here with 2/2 or better from 6 months of training. Its doable. How bad do you want to be the best.

good luck

Understood, and very well put.

And to Scimitar thank you for the links.

-Bryan

[That Guy v2.0]

I took 2 years of Arabic in college and I felt that our vocab base was very small at the end. I'm also pretty sure SOLT and DLI will be more difficult than my classes so I started to look around for other resources and found one that might help you or anyone else on the Arabic track.

This is a blog for a guy who deals mainly with military students in DLI. He is well versed in DLPT 5 and understands the issues involved with learning Arabic quickly. The info can be a little dated but there are lots of useful tips that deal with the DLPT and learning Arabic. The guy is also a native speaker so that will help as well.

http://acedlptarabic.blogspot.com/

The real helpful thing is that he has a book available that is geared specifically to taking the DLPT. It has 400 passages to read along with CD support which is easy to put on an iPod or similar device.

Site:
http://www.globallanguagesystems.com/

Here are the bullet points about the book:

• Over 400 challenging passages, questions, and audio files by a native speaker of Arabic simulating the actual DLPT format for real practice testing experience.

• Live material from various open media sources covering all DLPT content objectives including economics, politics, science, technology, geography, culture, social, military, and security.

• Comprehensive exposure to critical terminology and vocabulary, both familiar and unfamiliar, in various contexts, to increase your overall vocabulary and to improve your ability to infer and deduce meaning.

• Material of varying levels of complexity, including Arabic and foreign names of people and places, to challenge your listening and reading comprehension.

You can get the book on Amazon as well:
http://www.amazon.com/Ace-My-Languag.../dp/0976840413

[Scimitar]

Thanks Guy,

Great Resource.

I would be interested in comparing resources further.

My aim is to be around the 1/1 mark for listening and speaking before I ship out to the 18X program. I have 6 mths before the knee is ready to let me go so I may as well get something under my belt.

I have broken the language up into four areas

1) Grammar / Structure
2) Vocabulary
3) Usage
4) Maintenance


GRAMMAR
For Grammar I am using a course run out of Washington University. Not a lot of vocab mind you.
http://www.daliliusa.com


VOCABULARY
For Vocabulary I am using the Declan software mentioned above. 1500 Basic Arabic Words in Audio File as well as a couple of other very basic conversational resources
http://www.declan-software.com/

SHould have about 2000 words by the time I've finished (fingers crossed)

And I am also using a Flash Card system that uses the Leitner Memory System for memorization of Vocabulary


USAGE
As mentioned above I am using some websites to practice but have also hired the use of a Pastor of an Arabic Chrsitian church near where I live. My wife and I see him for 1 hr a week. My wife is learning with me and she's a bit of a linguist, very helpful.


MAINTENANCE
Lastly the Flashcard System is a great maintenance system as it sorts which cards you are struggling with and makes you practice those more often then the ones you are finding easier, much like Rosetta Stone does. Perfect for jumping on the computer for 10min every morning to make sure you don't loss what you've learnt.

Would like to hear your program and thoughts or any one else’s for that mater.

S

[Books]

Originally Posted by SF718

Another word about language. Alot of us kinda rolled our eyes at doing it Being Q course students within a void of not foreseeing its true importance down the road. Alot of us just wanted to pass. What a mistake. What I Can tell you from experience is that the better you demonstrate the capacity and motivation to absorb it all, the more of an asset you will become... you will really become a huge asset. I cant harp on it enough. You will be able to serve the detachment in so many ways. Communicating with the host nation (HN) in any capacity, Be it a JCET, FID buys you so much in terms of respect from the HN. Showing them that you took the time to understand there language goes a very, very long way and will further your teams objectives, whatever they may be. Another interesting scenario is when you have a HN translator and something about hows hes conveying the information your telling him doesn't seem to "jive", think about the edge you may have there.
I know I digressed from you original question But I'm hoping this quick reply serves as somewhat of a motivator.
O by the way, There are individuals who walk away from here with 2/2 or better from 6 months of training. Its doable. How bad do you want to be the best.

good luck

I cannot echo that sentiment enough. +1

[f50lrrp]

In 1970, I attended the MATA course at Ft. Bragg with an additional 12 weeks of Vietnamese Language training at Biggs Army Airfield in El Paso, TX.

The language training was designed to get the students to a Level 1 proficiency. All of the students were senior N.C.O.s including 3 Marine Corps MSGs except for an intelligence E-5 and me (E-6).

Every night we would cross the border to Juarez for "The mid-night Bull Fights". Wayson (the E-5) and I would get together an hour before class and memorize the days' dialog and then we would sit separately. When the teacher called for volunteers we would both get up and before she could assign rolls we would begin reciting the dialog.

We did a really crappy job of recitation but we both got good marks because we volunteered.

We were very surprised at the end of the course to score level 2s on our proficiency exams. The cadre wanted to keep us around for another week to get us to reveal how we were able to out do the course goals but MACV wouldn't spare either of us.\

DOL

[That Guy v2.0]

Scimitar,

In school we used these two books and they are pretty much the defacto college texts:

Alif Baa for Arabic script/writing
http://www.amazon.com/Alif-Baa-Intro...4782482&sr=1-1

Al-Kitaab for grammar and vocab
http://www.amazon.com/Al-Kitaab-fii-...ref=pd_sim_b_5

Al-Kitaab covers everything grammar wise all the way up to Al-Arab which is the Koranic style case endings.

Another book I highly recommend is this one:

Easy Arabic Grammar
http://www.amazon.com/Easy-Arabic-Gr...4782670&sr=1-2

It has everything Al-Kitaab does but it is small enough to fit in your back pocket vs the half telephone book Al-Kitaab. Great reference!

I haven't used this one but it looks good from a SF/mil point of view:

Modern Military Dictionary: English-Arabic/Arabic-English
http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Militar...d_bxgy_e_img_b

Here is another straight vocab book that is small and handy....the only downside is that they should have put the English words in alphabetical order. Still a good book though:

The Top 1,000 Words for Understanding Media Arabic
http://www.amazon.com/Top-Words-Unde...4786361&sr=1-2

[Scimitar]

Great resources, thanks Guy!

Scimitar

[MoPro]

To Scimitar and any other students of a language:

I hope I am not out of place by posting here, but as it is about language training and resources, I thought I might be able to add an additional resource that has helped both me and fellow students alike. I am not a QP nor am I in the military, but learning a language is still learning a language so here we go..

The About.com website hosts tons of resources on not only language, but customs and culture as well. I am a Foreign Language and Communications student and it has saved me a few times (as well as my friends studies other languages such as Arabic and Mandarin).

Here are the links that may help you with your Arabic studies, as well as links to other crucial languages that one may learn to become a QP (that I know of):

Arabic
http://islam.about.com/
http://islam.about.com/od/arabiclang...c_Language.htm

Mandarin
http://mandarin.about.com/

French
http://french.about.com/

Spanish
http://spanish.about.com/

German
http://german.about.com/

This is obviously not an exhaustive list, but I just wanted to share my knowledge of an outside aid that works. As said in my title, these are free and easily accessible online which I definitely see as a positive.

Best
Morgan

[Defend]

I'm curious if any of the BTDTs can speak regarding to the efficiency of Amia vs. Fusha in an operational environment.

From my personal interactions in the Middle East, speaking Fusha is a) automatically perceived to be political (/formal) b) not conducive to relaxed conversation.

When I use Amia on the streets, even when not dialect specific (for example in the conjugations using أتكلم, لا أعرف vs ما بعرف ,بتكلم) barriers come down and the questions shift from leading questions (sometimes outright accusations) and negative political statements, moving to questions about my family and generally friendly relations.

Unfortunately the obvious downside is when you get into the dialect specific words and phrases and it turns out you're talking to somebody from another region. Why can't all ME countries just have one language again?

[afghanman]

It was suggested that I add these links to this thread.

opensource.gov
(live, streaming TV form 35+ countries)

scola.org
(TV/Radio/Newspapers in 83+ languages)

voanews.com
(I know this is good for Pashto, Farsi, Dari, and Urdu)

wte.lingnet.org
gloss.lingnet.org
fieldsupport.lingnet.org

langnet.org
(Excellent pre-DLPT resource; fairly accurate ILR levels)

jlu.wbtrain.com
(Joint Language University; learning plans and DLPT prep)

Please feel free to contact me if you are having trouble finding resources for CENTCOM languages. Thanks to all for sharing these forums, and best of luck.