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Old 07-29-2005, 08:26   #31
The Reaper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer
TR, I believe you are correct on the constitutional issues.

Abusing those poor ladies and gentlemen. And destroying their constitutionally recognized right to own slaves. Damn Yankees! LMAO
I would say that loss of your lands and property, as well as suspension of your rights is pretty significant mistreatment by the government that wanted to keep you.

Slaves were also held in the states NOT in rebellion and only the slaves living in the Confederacy were freed by the Emancipation Proclamation, in case you didn't know that. The majority of Southerners were NOT slaveowners.

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Old 07-29-2005, 09:17   #32
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Let's see how this works -------- Defend the Confederacy and you're a racist. Suggest the Palestinian people got screwed by everybody (and dare to suggest that the bombing of the King David Hotel was an act of terrorism) and you're anti-Semitic. I love the power of association invoked with words. Just because the causes are unpopular or the victims aren't admirable, doesn't mean their grievances aren't legitimate. Peregrino
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Old 07-29-2005, 09:23   #33
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Hell, I just found out that the Confederate Air Force changed its name to be more PC.

Now I AM pissed!

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

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Old 07-29-2005, 09:50   #34
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Yes, I knew. But I believe in identifying and striking the most sensitive and vulnerable targets. LMAO

The South got its ass kicked, IIRC.
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Old 07-29-2005, 09:57   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer
Yes, I knew. But I believe in identifying and striking the most sensitive and vulnerable targets. LMAO

The South got its ass kicked, IIRC.
I don't recall that from my history lessons.

Would you care to cite examples where with comparably sized elements, the Confederate forces lost?

I can provide numerous cases of more numerous and better equipped Federal foces failing miserably.

The Yankees probably had more lawyers in their ranks. There were several particularly incompetent ones in command at various levels. I'll have to see if any share your last name.

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

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Old 07-29-2005, 10:06   #36
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I did not realize that Bragg was located in the good ol C S of A.
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Old 07-29-2005, 10:13   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
I don't recall that from my history lessons.

Would you care to cite examples where with comparably sized elements, the Confederate forces lost?

I can provide numerous cases of more numerous and better equipped Federal foces failing miserably.

The Yankees probably had more lawyers in their ranks. There were several particularly incompetent ones in command at various levels. I'll have to see if any share your last name.

TR
You are aware of what John Singleton Mosby did before the war, right?
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Old 07-29-2005, 10:21   #38
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Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
You are aware of what John Singleton Mosby did before the war, right?
Yeah, but he was a Confederate and never rose above the rank of Colonel. I dedicated a chapter to one of his operations in my thesis, but out of respect, avoided his unsavory pre-war activies.

Are you familiar with Daniel Sickles?

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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

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Old 07-29-2005, 10:26   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
You are aware of what John Singleton Mosby did before the war, right?
Body blow! You da man, AL! LOL

AL is adopting the AM targeting strategy -- first shot through the temple!
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Old 07-29-2005, 10:45   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer
I did not realize that Bragg was located in the good ol C S of A.
Braxton Bragg was a Confederate general, though arguably one of the worst.

Fort Bragg did not exist during the War. It was founded as an artillery training base in 1918.

North Carolina is in the South, and was among the last to secede, after holding out for a compromise. It contributed the most troops to that War, and suffered over 25% of all casualties, despite having one of the lowest slave populations. I would not ascribe to the theory that the War was all about slavery, or impugn ill-motives to those who served or have studied it.

RL, do you believe that the Federal government should have usurped the states rights' that it has in the past 140 years?

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

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Old 07-29-2005, 11:41   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper

Are you familiar with Daniel Sickles?

TR
I do believe that General Sickles required several shots to fall Senor Key and finished him off with a shot through the temple The more interesting story IMHO being the crafty attorney who successfully established the first Temporary Insanity defense.

I love these forums.....I have become an expert at Google Research!
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Old 07-29-2005, 12:12   #42
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Originally Posted by CoLawman
I do believe that General Sickles required several shots to fall Senor Key and finished him off with a shot through the temple The more interesting story IMHO being the crafty attorney who successfully established the first Temporary Insanity defense.

I love these forums.....I have become an expert at Google Research!
General Sickles also disobeyed orders at Gettysburg on 2 July and overextended his lines, exposing the Federal flank and setting the scene for Joshua Chamberlain's heroic defense of Little Round Top.

The Union collapse at the Peach Orchard was his fault.

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

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Old 07-29-2005, 12:25   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Yeah, but he was a Confederate and never rose above the rank of Colonel.
Jubal Early rose above the rank of colonel. Can you refresh my memory about what he did before and after the war?
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Old 07-29-2005, 13:03   #44
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Ah yes, Old Jube. Lee's "Bad Old Man".

Jubal Anderson Early was born November 3, 1816, in Franklin County, Virginia, into a well-connected old Virginia family. His father operated an extensive tobacco plantation of more than 4,000 acres at the foot of the Blue Ridge. Early attended local schools as well as private academies in Lynchburg and Danville before entering West Point in 1833. After graduation in 1837 he served briefly in the Seminole War and then returned to Franklin County to study law. He began his practice in 1840 and served as prosecuting attorney for Franklin and Floyd Counties. His law career was temporarily interrupted by the Mexican War.

His character and personality provoked controversy. He was consistently described by his peers as eccentric, outspoken, caustic, opinionated, and a great swearer with imaginatively profane speech - so much so that General Lee referred to his as his "bad old man." As a delegate to the Secession Convention of 1861 he fought to keep Virginia in the Union, but when outvoted he threw his lot with his native state.

During the War, he served honorably in nearly every major engagement of the ANV, but bungled command of a division in Ewell's Corps on the first day at Gettysburg, reacting slowly and lethargically to Lee's orders to take Culp's Hill. Given his own command in the Shenandoah Valley, he advanced on Washington, D.C. in 1864, but suddered overwhelming defeats during his withdrawal back to the Valley. Early headed home, having been relieved of his command just ten days before Lee's surrender at Appomattox.

To his credit, Jubal Early never surrendered. Federal troops scoured Franklin County looking for him as he moved from place to place. Hiding at his old homplace, he was able to slip by a Union encampment nearby and escape south to voluntary exile in Mexico and Canada before being pardoned in 1868 by President Andrew Johnson. Early never took the oath and remained the unreconstructed Rebel. He returned to Lynchburg where he practiced law and became the major chronicler of the Southern Cause. Many others relied on Early for his uncanny memory of events during the war. As president of the influential Southern Historical Society, Early achieved with the pen what he could not with the sword. He became the primary spokesman for the Lost Cause and became the overwhelming authority on published Confederate history. In so doing he engineered the near deification of General Robert E. Lee. The old soldier Jubal Early died in Lynchburg in 1894 and was buried on his old battleground there; he had become a well-known Southern fold hero.

If he had not been so cantankerous in his disagreements with General Longstreet after the war, I could probably have forgiven his dabbling in the law.

Back to my premise, my initial research indicates approximately 1.5 Union generals who were lawyers to each Confederate general who was a lawyer. Yet they eventually won despite that. Shocking.

TR
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Old 07-29-2005, 15:43   #45
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You think this hijack should be moved to the medical area for diagnosis of TR's subcutaneous ailment?
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