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Old 03-06-2005, 09:32   #31
NousDefionsDoc
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Anybody know the reason I asked about the body armor/weighted vests?
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Old 03-06-2005, 09:43   #32
Kyobanim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Anybody know the reason I asked about the body armor/weighted vests?
Workout with your loadout. That will condition the body to what your 'normal' load would be. Also, wearing armor, webgear, ruck, etc makes your muscles react differently than without a load. It's a balance thing.

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Tak or Mas?
I don't understand the qustion?
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Old 03-06-2005, 09:56   #33
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Exactly. Body armor is here to stay. I think it should be incorporated into PT just like the rucksack.

Your hit conditioning sounds very Tak Kubota or Mas Oyama
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.

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Old 03-06-2005, 10:04   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Exactly. Body armor is here to stay. I think it should be incorporated into PT just like the rucksack.

Your hit conditioning sounds very Tak Kubota or Mas Oyama
do I win a prize?

Thanks for the lead. Yes, after a quick google, that's pretty much what it is. I have found in the past that when sparring I spent more time working defense than offense. that's not a way to win. I did that because of the pain factor. If I'm to compete at my level I needed to get past that and take a more aggressive attitude. Works so far.
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Old 03-06-2005, 10:05   #35
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We had a guy on my Team once. Very pretty dude, nice tan - poster child in fact. Ran like a striped-assed gazelle in fag shorts and PF Flyers. Run for miles.

Then one day, the mission called for a sprint from Point A to Point B in kit. Bad planning, but it happens. About 1500 in a tropical environment. 100 pounds of HSLD Lightweight kit. He started first, but was the last to arrive. I even passed him (And slammed into him with a shoulder to let him know it was me ). And he couldn't do anything when he did arrive.


Functional strength is the key. Not asthetic or any other type. If I was a TS looking at the Box, I think I would be concetrating on training my team to run 100 yards in full kit as opposed to 5 miles in shorts. Climbing low and high walls in full kit instead of gym biceps. Things like that.

But I could be wrong - it has happened.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.

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Old 03-06-2005, 10:10   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyobanim
do I win a prize?

Thanks for the lead. Yes, after a quick google, that's pretty much what it is. I have found in the past that when sparring I spent more time working defense than offense. that's not a way to win. I did that because of the pain factor. If I'm to compete at my level I needed to get past that and take a more aggressive attitude. Works so far.
Excellent self-analysis! Very OODA.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.

Still want to quit?
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Old 03-06-2005, 10:25   #37
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Your're never to old to learn something new
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Old 03-06-2005, 13:21   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Exactly. Body armor is here to stay. I think it should be incorporated into PT just like the rucksack.
You have my fat, nonexpert, completely speculative endorsement for that recommendation. Congrats.
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Old 03-06-2005, 14:40   #39
Roguish Lawyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Functional strength is the key. Not asthetic or any other type. If I was a TS looking at the Box, I think I would be concetrating on training my team to run 100 yards in full kit as opposed to 5 miles in shorts. Climbing low and high walls in full kit instead of gym biceps. Things like that.

But I could be wrong - it has happened.
How about 50-100 yard wind sprints in full kit? Over and over and over. Great conditioning for certain sports.
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Old 03-06-2005, 14:58   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Functional strength is the key. Not asthetic or any other type. If I was a TS looking at the Box, I think I would be concetrating on training my team to run 100 yards in full kit as opposed to 5 miles in shorts. Climbing low and high walls in full kit instead of gym biceps. Things like that.
If I had a nickel for every time I said that.................

SO, now that I am a TS and I am in the box......I have realized that I've done some things right and some things wrong in preparation for this type of environment.

Here are a few observations that I'll implement upon return to tailor my PT program to the current environment:

Functional movment in body armor/kit is whats important. Everybody wears all of their kit mounted to body armor now. Level IV Armor with everything (12 mags, 2-3 pistol mags, pistol cross mounted to chest, trauma kit, MBTR, Camelback). Just standing around for an hour in this configuration is taxing. Taking a knee is downright painful. Much time is spent inactive in tactical vehicles traveling from point to point. Rapidly deploying out of the vehicle is required to secure the area dismounted. The only way to get used to this is to do common activites in full kit. In addition to PT events, range time, and vehicle movements add time in the gear that prepare your body for periods of static inactivity wearing kit broken apart by rapid movements (dismounting and mounting vehicles).

Everyone must be able to pick someone up in full kit and carry him. Carry back to a vehcilce or longer distances to HLZ for CASEVAC. I normally do buddy carries as a finish to uphill sprints. 100-200 meters uphill 2-4 times following 8-10 sprints.

General fitness (running, swimming, biking, rucking) and strength training should be maintained for general conditioning.

Pullups in full kit (set up as you wear it).

Dedicate Gym time to endurance type lifting with as much weight as you can manage. I look toward 10 sets of 10 repititions of any major muscle group exercise. Bench for Chest, Pullups for back, Curls for Bi/tri, Military Press for shoulders, and squats and lunges for legs. You'll not get huge or enourmously strong, but you will get rapid strength and enduracne, (and sore as hell).

Not that it has anything to do with PT, but you need to be able to do all of this stuff under NODS too.

just my .02

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Last edited by Roguish Lawyer; 03-06-2005 at 15:36. Reason: fixed quote
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Old 03-06-2005, 15:02   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
What reference are you using?
"Get Tough" and "Kill Or Get Killed". Waiting for the DVD format of McCann's stuff to be released.

Have any of you seen the draft version of the "new" PT FM that the Physical Fitness School put out a few years ago (before they took it off their website)? They changed the focus of PT to 'functional fitness', incorporating exercises that mimiced tasks soldiers could expect to perform in combat, and other exercises that strengthened supporting and stabilizing muscles. Its more equipment intensive than the current push-up/sit-up/run concept, but appears to be more directed towards what an infantryman would need.

Last edited by Razor; 03-06-2005 at 15:08.
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Old 03-08-2005, 04:07   #42
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Originally Posted by Kyobanim
"hit conditioning". Take a 2" diameter wooden dowel, roll it up and down your shins, then bounce it on your shins, strike at the thighs front and side. Repeat process for the forearms. Next stand still with legs slightly apart and take kicks and strikes from a partner blocking only with forearms and shins.

This has taken the 'fear' out of contact for me allowing me to concentrait on the matter at hand. Fear of pain has been a problem for me in the past.
Do you do this with thin protective gear to avoid osteitis, Sir?

Thank you.
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Old 03-08-2005, 05:09   #43
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Originally Posted by mffjm8509
Not that it has anything to do with PT, but you need to be able to do all of this stuff under NODS too.

I think that is a hell of a point, because I find if I run at night I will not push myself as hard for fear of triping on something that I didn't see. Now if I'm running after someone thats a different story I go all out, but for general conditioning I know that I hold back while running in no light.
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:48   #44
NousDefionsDoc
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Originally Posted by Martin
Do you do this with thin protective gear to avoid osteitis, Sir?

Thank you.
No
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.

Still want to quit?
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Old 03-08-2005, 07:26   #45
Kyobanim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
No
Ditto.

Protective gear would defeat the purpose. I do wear shin and forearm protection when in class or competition as it adds another level of comfort for the situation as well as the ability to take a harder hit. Besides, if I have to do this on the street I won't be able to say, "wait, I need to get my pads on."
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Last edited by Kyobanim; 03-08-2005 at 07:36.
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